A question for women who read or write GM stories. OR..

[AG31]

...for anyone else with an informed insight, OR,
...for anyone else with an intelligent opinion, OR...
...for anyone else with a baseless, but clever, opinion.

I'll go first.

About three years ago I found my fantasies had shifted from a decades' long female POV to an almost exclusively male POV. I didn't categorize myself as a writer of GM stories, although there are a number I've enjoyed reading. The reason was that, although my MCs were often the recipient of male sexual acts, they were almost as often the recipient of female sexual acts, and they never felt desire for or attraction to men. Hence, not exactly gay.

I once responded to a question over in Reddit about why straight women liked GM stories and my reply was that women liked men and men were so unambiguously clear about when they were aroused. The guy who asked the question thought that was pretty good.

But this doesn't explain we we female authors would be drawn to the male POV. You can spend a lot of fun time paying attention to men's bodies and personalities and unambiguous arousal from the female POV.

What's the attraction of reading and writing from the male POV?

EDIT TWO DAYS LATER

I have to disagree with @VerbalAbuse, who thinks "People here don't know the answer." Au contraire, I've gotten real insights via AH threads over the months, and this one can be added to the list. I have settled into agreeing with @AwkwardlySet who said "Well honestly, I am a straight guy, but more often than not, I don't need a man in a sex scene to be able to enjoy it. Women are all that interests me sexually and I don't even need the fantasy of me joining them in some way - I can simply enjoy their beauty and sexual appeal." The underlining is mine.

I've decided that the interest in reading and writing GM stories (and vice versa for men and lesbian stories) is as inexplicable as a person's sexual desire for a specific sex (or sexes.) It's just baked into our humanity. Endocrinologists maybe be able to explicate it, but for the rest of us such desire is just a given. And, to elaborate on AwkwardlySet's insight a bit, the desire is doubly satisfied when we can contemplate that sex interacting with each other.

And thanks to all the rest of you, too.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I don't read or write GM stories but I am a guy who reads and writes Lesbian stories and I guess that is more or less the same. The appeal is obvious to me.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

AS has raised a good point, I think. What is the attraction of reading and writing from the other sex’s POV?

I personally suspect that, however happy we are in our own sex, there’s a low but very real wish to be able to experience the other’s reality, to, as it were, take it for a spin around the block.

I myself write from both PsOV. It’s a fun challenge, if nothing else.

 

[AG31]

I don't read or write GM stories but I am a guy who reads and writes Lesbian stories and I guess that is more or less the same. The appeal is obvious to me.

Yeah, but maybe not obvious to the rest of us. Can you address this specifically?

But this doesn't explain we we female authors would be drawn to the male POV. You can spend a lot of fun time paying attention to men's bodies and personalities and unambiguous arousal from the female POV.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

AS has raised a good point, I think. What is the attraction of reading and writing from the other sex’s POV?

I personally suspect that, however happy we are in our own sex, there’s a low but very real wish to be able to experience the other’s reality, to, as it were, take it for a spin around the block.

I myself write from both PsOV. It’s a fun challenge, if nothing else.

There is also the well-known fact that more than a few men find lesbian sex arousing and appealing, but I guess the same goes for women when it comes to gay men sex.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

...for anyone else with an informed insight, OR,
...for anyone else with an intelligent opinion, OR...
...for anyone else with a baseless, but clever, opinion.

I'll go first.

About three years ago I found my fantasies had shifted from a decades' long female POV to an almost exclusively male POV. I didn't categorize myself as a writer of GM stories, although there are a number I've enjoyed reading. The reason was that, although my MCs were often the recipient of male sexual acts, they were almost as often the recipient of female sexual acts, and they never felt desire for or attraction to men. Hence, not exactly gay.

I once responded to a question over in Reddit about why straight women liked GM stories and my reply was that women liked men and men were so unambiguously clear about when they were aroused. The guy who asked the question thought that was pretty good.

But this doesn't explain we we female authors would be drawn to the male POV. You can spend a lot of fun time paying attention to men's bodies and personalities and unambiguous arousal from the female POV.

What's the attraction of reading and writing from the male POV?

Right, so what's your answer to your own question? I was not able to deduce it from your post, since you yourself way "You can spend... time... from the female POV."

 

[AG31]

Right, so what's your answer to your own question? I was not able to deduce it from your post, since you yourself way "You can spend... time... from the female POV."

Ah. Well. There you go. I think I started the thread because I don't know the complete answer. I do agree with some posts up-thread that the same question could be applied to men reading and writing Lesbian sex. But that doesn't help, does it? Maybe it's just baked into our humanity. We like it the same way we're attracted to a specific sex. You think?

 

[VerbalAbuse]

You don't know the complete answer, but you don't give the partial answer, either.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Yeah, but maybe not obvious to the rest of us. Can you address this specifically?

Well honestly, I am a straight guy, but more often than not, I don't need a man in a sex scene to be able to enjoy it. Women are all that interests me sexually and I don't even need the fantasy of me joining them in some way - I can simply enjoy their beauty and sexual appeal. The reason for that, among other things, could also be the fact that sex between women is usually gentler and more subtle and that is also how I like it. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy intense sex - even intense sexual intercourse can be subtle and gentle in a way.
For example, if I had to pick the type of sex that should appeal to me because it's straight/lesbian, yet it couldn't get farther from being appealing, that's anything that Rocco Siffredi produces. His porn is probably popular, yet even a mere glance at it makes me want to strangle the man. His porn is so vulgar and filthy and comes down to mere friction ( I can never unsee him gathering a phlegm and then spitting on a hole to lubricate it )
I like my erotica/porn seductive and subtle, with the mind doing more than actual muscles or friction. I think that is definitely one of the reasons I find lesbian sex appealing in general, minus the rough butch strap-on stuff and similar.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

You keep popping the same questions. Isn't it clear to you you're in the wrong place to ask these questions?
And maybe it's time to hit the psychology shelf of your local library?
People here don't know the answer.

It's true that psychology has been called "the dismal science," after economy has been called that before it. There's a reason for the name. That by itself should tell you that getting answers is difficult, even if the reason for why is difficult is not in the phrase.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've known quite a few women who set out to change a GM's mind about his sexual preference. The reverse James Bond proclivity. It doesn't rarely work; it's never worked for those I know, and yet, they continue to try.

I've been told I write tops and bottoms in GM stories well. I'll take others opinions on this.

 

[AG31]

Well honestly, I am a straight guy, but more often than not, I don't need a man in a sex scene to be able to enjoy it. Women are all that interests me sexually and I don't even need the fantasy of me joining them in some way

Yeah, more and more I'm thinking that what I described is just as baked into our humanity as being attracted to a particular sex.

 

[KeithD]

As I'm sure many here know, I write GM exclusively in this account name, while writing across the board in other accounts. I'm bi, once very actively so. (And, yes, my wife is too, which made in fine in RL. No, she doesn't know I'm writing so heavily in GM now. I'd write more bi, though, if Literotica accommodated it.)

So, I'm curious about this thread. From time to time I've told myself I should read GM stories written by women writers, if for no other reason than to compare them with the GM I write. The GM niche I've picked for most of my writing in the category is targeted to the unabashed active gay male, most often the submissive. The sex often gets willingly rough, and that's the demographic I mostly write too. Although I do include emotion in the writing, it emphasizes casual hooking up.

My assumption is that a woman writer of GM will include much more of the emotional angle than I do, but I haven't taken the time and made the effort so far to read such stories to look for the comparison/contrast to my own writing. I could say that they probably would have a hard time getting the technicals right, but, this being erotic fiction, I mostly write the glorified arousal part of it and not the nasty and too much of the painful parts myself. So, I shouldn't expect them to include reality that I don't myself.

I do know there are women readers of GM, because a good fifth of the separate posters commenting on my story start off with "I'm female, but I have to say . . ." Invariably my response to these is that it's fine for a woman to read my stories, but they aren't really the demographic I'm targeting, and I don't intend to skew away from my target.

 

[KeithD]

I've known quite a few women who set out to change a GM's mind about his sexual preference. The reverse James Bond proclivity. It doesn't rarely work; it's never worked for those I know, and yet, they continue to try.

I've been told I write tops and bottoms in GM stories well. I'll take others opinions on this.

That's interesting. I'll have to say that not a single woman-identifying commenter on my GM stories has made a run at "curing" the gay characters in my stories--or me. They've almost universally acknowledge a guilty voyeur interest in naked male-on-male sex.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm not saying that this is a majority of women. But it is something that some women want to do. And Even a gay man might do, fuck a woman, that is, but even if they do fuck a woman, now and again, they are still more geared to men than women. I don't believe we change our turnings because we enjoyed a sex act contrary to her natural drawings. If any of that makes any sense.

That's interesting. I'll have to say that not a single woman-identifying commenter on my GM stories has made a run at "curing" the gay characters in my stories--or me. They've almost universally acknowledge a guilty voyeur interest in naked male-on-male sex.

 

[KeithD]

I'm not saying that this is a majority of women. But it is something that some women want to do. And Even a gay man might do, fuck a woman, that is, but even if they do fuck a woman, now and again, they are still more geared to men than women. I don't believe we change our turnings because we enjoyed a sex act contrary to her natural drawings. If any of that makes any sense.

Well, if they can get it up to fuck a woman as well as a man, I hate to break it to them. but they are bi. (My belief is that most people are.)

I didn't say that a majority of woman-identifiers commenting on my GM stories hadn't mentioned curing the gay characters (or author). I said that not a single one of them has.

 

[AG31]

So, I'm curious about this thread. From time to time I've told myself I should read GM stories written by women writers, if for no other reason than to compare them with the GM I write.

I've long wished to ask you to read one of my stories, to find out how it came across to a gay man. Especially since someone here said that he was very surprised to find out in my afterword that I was female. I'd mention him but I can no longer remember whether he said it in a post or a DM. But I didn't ask, because I've seen you say a number of times that you don't read erotica. Anyway, if you want to compare my writing with yours, please read my best, Twelve Maxbridge Street, the story that triggered that comment.

The GM niche I've picked for most of my writing in the category is targeted to the unabashed active gay male, most often the submissive. The sex often gets willingly rough, and that's the demographic I mostly write too. Although I do include emotion in the writing, it emphasizes casual hooking up.

My assumption is that a woman writer of GM will include much more of the emotional angle than I do, but I haven't taken the time and made the effort so far to read such stories to look for the comparison/contrast to my own writing.

I like your stories for the very submissiveness, roughness and impersonality. We talked about that in the Impersonality Thread. I don't read a lot of GM, and, as far as I know, have not read any by women (except my own two). I'd be very interested to find out if female authors of GM are, on the whole, more interested in emotion.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I've only written a few GM or Bi stories so far, so I don't think I know the answers anyone seeks yet.

 

[Britva415]

if they can get it up to fuck a woman as well as a man, I hate to break it to them. but they are bi

The ability to get up is not what determines someone's sexual orientation.

Asexual people can get aroused with a partner, it doesn't make them not-asexual.

A lot of men who are old or have circulatory diseases can't get it up, but that doesn't make them asexual.

If they can't get it up for a man or for a woman, it doesn't change whether they're gay, straight, or bi.

Gay people have been getting it up for their opposite-sex spouses for generations. Some still are because they're still closeted.

 

[KeithD]

The ability to get up is not what determines someone's sexual orientation.

Asexual people can get aroused with a partner, it doesn't make them not-asexual.

A lot of men who are old or have circulatory diseases can't get it up, but that doesn't make them asexual.

If they can't get it up for a man or for a woman, it doesn't change whether they're gay, straight, or bi.

Gay people have been getting it up for their opposite-sex spouses for generations. Some still are because they're still closeted.

We have different opinions on this. I'll hold on to my view.

 

[KeithD]

I've long wished to ask you to read one of my stories, to find out how it came across to a gay man. Especially since someone here said that he was very surprised to find out in my afterword that I was female. I'd mention him but I can no longer remember whether he said it in a post or a DM. But I didn't ask, because I've seen you say a number of times that you don't read erotica. Anyway, if you want to compare my writing with yours, please read my best, Twelve Maxbridge Street, the story that triggered that comment.

I read into the second page until it got to be too much of just a long sex scene for my tastes, a scene lacking in sexual heat and pizzaz. The buildup lacks tension and shivering anticipation for me (and, no, I'm sure I don't achieve that every time either), and the carry through of what I've read didn't arouse me in any way.

But, as a GM-category story, it read fine, and I didn't see any tell-tale signs that it was written by a woman rather than a man. I had a bit of trouble with the use of genitals. From time to time, when you used the term genitals, it seemed only the penis was involved and the balls wouldn't be doing that as well, and genitals includes them both. The cock engorges, but the balls tighten, not engorge. But that's minor.

I would have preferred not to have the foreword on it. Likewise the afterward and appendix. Makes it seem academic and needy, neither of which arouse me. I haven't looked at any of your other stories, but maybe you're trying too hard and sucking the fun and flow/immediacy out of your stories. At least this one has that effect on me--you intruding on the story too much.

If I went looking for a GM read, I'd want something sexy/sensual/steamy by the middle of the first page (and anticipatory before that). The way even the setup and any background was presented would need to have me thinking, "This sexy dude is so much in heat he's going to have steamy sex soon." That, though, goes beyond the question here of whether this story could be discerned to be written by a woman rather than a man--no, not by me. But I don't read much of whatever GM anyone else is writing and it's not something I go looking for in a story.

 

[AG31]

I read into the second page until it got to be too much of just a long sex scene for my tastes, a scene lacking in sexual heat and pizzaz. The buildup lacks tension and shivering anticipation for me (and, no, I'm sure I don't achieve that every time either), and the carry through of what I've read didn't arouse me in any way.

But, as a GM-category story, it read fine, and I didn't see any tell-tale signs that it was written by a woman rather than a man. I had a bit of trouble with the use of genitals. From time to time, when you used the term genitals, it seemed only the penis was involved and the balls wouldn't be doing that as well, and genitals includes them both. The cock engorges, but the balls tighten, not engorge. But that's minor.

I would have preferred not to have the foreword on it. Likewise the afterward and appendix. Makes it seem academic and needy, neither of which arouse me. I haven't looked at any of your other stories, but maybe you're trying too hard and sucking the fun and flow/immediacy out of your stories. At least this one has that effect on me--you intruding on the story too much.

If I went looking for a GM read, I'd want something sexy/sensual/steamy by the middle of the first page (and anticipatory before that). The way even the setup and any background was presented would need to have me thinking, "This sexy dude is so much in heat he's going to have steamy sex soon." That, though, goes beyond the question here of whether this story could be discerned to be written by a woman rather than a man--no, not by me. But I don't read much of whatever GM anyone else is writing and it's not something I go looking for in a story.

Thanks very much for your frank and descriptive feedback. Given that you couldn't detect anything that said I was female in the writing, does this mean that you agree that it didn't have a "typical" feminine emotional component? You're wondering if there is such a thing in GM writing and my story would suggest "no." But I still think there may be. I just don't think my writing displays it. I hope we get more feedback in this thread about that.

Your comments about the story itself make total sense to me, given your own much more energetic style.

I'll check up on the genitals thing. Thanks for that!

 

[ElectricBlue]

Especially since someone here said that he was very surprised to find out in my afterword that I was female. I'd mention him but I can no longer remember whether he said it in a post or a DM.

That was me, in my comment to Maxbridge Street.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm not talking about commenters; I'm talking about those I've known. I have no problem with your comment or our commenters. I'm talking about women (many, many women) who want to change their man in one way or another and those who I have known who want to conquer a gay man and straighten him out.

Well, if they can get it up to fuck a woman as well as a man, I hate to break it to them. but they are bi. (My belief is that most people are.)

I didn't say that a majority of woman-identifiers commenting on my GM stories hadn't mentioned curing the gay characters (or author). I said that not a single one of them has.

 

[KeithD]

Thanks very much for your frank and descriptive feedback. Given that you couldn't detect anything that said I was female in the writing, does this mean that you agree that it didn't have a "typical" feminine emotional component? You're wondering if there is such a thing in GM writing and my story would suggest "no." But I still think there may be. I just don't think my writing displays it. I hope we get more feedback in this thread about that.

Your comments about the story itself make total sense to me, given your own much more energetic style.

I'll check up on the genitals thing. Thanks for that!

Nope, I didn't see an extra lean on emotional in the section I read.

A side comment, just because I saw it in your story. You rendered a piece of clothing as "tee shirt." That's fine. The dictionary accepts it as a variant. I'd like writers to consider using "T-shirt" instead. That's because it's one of those deliciously specific words where the spelling comes directly from the garment itself. A T-shirt is shaped like a capital T, and that's the origin of the word--spelled just as the garment looks.