A question for the lesbians out there

[cheerful_deviant]

I just recently found out that a friend is pregnant again. She is a lesbian who already has a young daughter of about 3 years old. The daughter is from her previous husband before she came out and got divorced. I don’t really know her well enough to feel comfortable asking but since she is loyal to her partner I assume the pregnancy is the result of artificial insemination.

This got me to thinking about who the father might be. Is it someone she knows? A friend maybe? Or did she just pick the father out of a catalog at the sperm bank?

Both options would seem to have their drawbacks. If the donor was a friend, wouldn’t it be hard for him to see the child in years to come and not want to be a father figure. Would it be awkward if you tried for him to not be a father figure? What kind of strain would this put on her partner who has no actual biological claim to the child, only an emotional one?

And as for just picking the father out of a catalog, how do you know what kind of man he is? Sure some many behavioral aspects are learned, but many are also inherited. Seems kind of scary to me.

Are there any lesbians out there who have gone thru this or might someday? Any thoughts?

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

I just recently found out that a friend is pregnant again. She is a lesbian who already has a young daughter of about 3 years old. The daughter is from her previous husband before she came out and got divorced. I don’t really know her well enough to feel comfortable asking but since she is loyal to her partner I assume the pregnancy is the result of artificial insemination.

This got me to thinking about who the father might be. Is it someone she knows? A friend maybe? Or did she just pick the father out of a catalog at the sperm bank?

Both options would seem to have their drawbacks. If the donor was a friend, wouldn’t it be hard for him to see the child in years to come and not want to be a father figure. Would it be awkward if you tried for him to not be a father figure? What kind of strain would this put on her partner who has no actual biological claim to the child, only an emotional one?

And as for just picking the father out of a catalog, how do you know what kind of man he is? Sure some many behavioral aspects are learned, but many are also inherited. Seems kind of scary to me.

Are there any lesbians out there who have gone thru this or might someday? Any thoughts?

I'll get Des and Renza's say on this to give some actual experienced insight, but if I ever have children, I'd like it be someone I take the time to get to know. If it's someone out of a catalog, I'd want to get to know them a bit first to see what kind of behaviors I could pick up on that aren't listed in the catalog or in his file.

If I worked it out so that the donor was a friend of mine, I'm not sure what I'd do now that you mention it. Initially it seems to me you'd set strict boundaries, explaining what sort of contact with the child is acceptable, and what isn't. However, people change, as well as their feelings. It's possible that one set of boundaries may be set, but then a whole different set of emotions enter when the child gets older, and that's where I could see things getting complicated.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

I'll get Des and Renza's say on this to give some actual experienced insight, but if I ever have children, I'd like it be someone I take the time to get to know. If it's someone out of a catalog, I'd want to get to know them a bit first to see what kind of behaviors I could pick up on that aren't listed in the catalog or in his file.

If I worked it out so that the donor was a friend of mine, I'm not sure what I'd do now that you mention it. Initially it seems to me you'd set strict boundaries, explaining what sort of contact with the child is acceptable, and what isn't. However, people change, as well as their feelings. It's possible that one set of boundaries may be set, but then a whole different set of emotions enter when the child gets older, and that's where I could see things getting complicated.

You're right, I'd love Des and Renza to chime in on this and shed some light for me since they would know better than anyone.

This is kindof what I was getting at. It may be easy for a friend to say now that they won't want to be a father. But what about 5, 10 or 15 years from now. What if they never get married and suddenly regret having no childern of their own and want to suddenly be involved?

Would you even let the child know who the real father is? What if you didn't want to but he told them or found out somehow?

Personally I tend to worry to much and this kind of thing would keep me awake at night for years even though it might never happen. But it seems like it could be a very sticky situation.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Both options would seem to have their drawbacks. If the donor was a friend, wouldn’t it be hard for him to see the child in years to come and not want to be a father figure. Would it be awkward if you tried for him to not be a father figure? What kind of strain would this put on her partner who has no actual biological claim to the child, only an emotional one?

And as for just picking the father out of a catalog, how do you know what kind of man he is? Sure some many behavioral aspects are learned, but many are also inherited. Seems kind of scary to me.

Are there any lesbians out there who have gone thru this or might someday? Any thoughts?

Damn, you ask a lot of questions.

If done smartly, there shouldn't be any drawbacks. It's got a lot more potential to be seamless because the couple has more control. Sperm banks require rigorous screening as well as extensive health history screening.

As for picking the father? I think that's a little naive. Unless you buy more into the nature argument than you do in the nurture argument. I know plenty of women who've been married to and had children with dirtbags and yet their kids turn out fine in the end, regardless of their genetic make-up.

The dangers you speculated on shouldn't exist at all. Buying sperm from a sperm-bank is as tidy as a formal adoption, from what I understand. The father signs away his rights to the sperm upon donation and the couple choosing the DNA has exclusive rights to it once purchased.

If I'm off in the wrong direction with this, I'm sure someone will chime in shortly.

~lucky

 

[doormouse]

Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

Damn, you ask a lot of questions.
I know plenty of women who've been married to and had children with dirtbags and yet their kids turn out fine in the end, regardless of their genetic make-up.



~lucky

This is so true. My ex was an alcoholic (NEVER marry a drinker!!!!). Sadly, my kids will most likely carry that gene. I'm going to do my darndest to keep them from ever growing up with an alcoholic in their life ever again. I rarely drink, and never in front of them.

My sister had a baby to a guy who doesn't even know he's a father. Wouldn't be my choice, but it was a decision she made when the baby was born. The baby is a happy little boy, and I can't see him being any less/more happy if she were in a lesbian relationship. It's the love and atmosphere in a household that makes a huge impact on kids.

When my ex left, my kids came out of their shell and are now vibrant, happy little girls who I'm proud of. I love my kids if you can't tell lol

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

Re: Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

This is so true. My ex was an alcoholic (NEVER marry a drinker!!!!). Sadly, my kids will most likely carry that gene. I'm going to do my darndest to keep them from ever growing up with an alcoholic in their life ever again. I rarely drink, and never in front of them.

My sister had a baby to a guy who doesn't even know he's a father. Wouldn't be my choice, but it was a decision she made when the baby was born. The baby is a happy little boy, and I can't see him being any less/more happy if she were in a lesbian relationship. It's the love and atmosphere in a household that makes a huge impact on kids.

When my ex left, my kids came out of their shell and are now vibrant, happy little girls who I'm proud of. I love my kids if you can't tell lol

I'm about to hijack this thread and ask Kim if she knows anything about aboriginal languages or cultures?

 

[cheerful_deviant]

Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

Damn, you ask a lot of questions.

If done smartly, there shouldn't be any drawbacks. It's got a lot more potential to be seamless because the couple has more control. Sperm banks require rigorous screening as well as extensive health history screening.

As for picking the father? I think that's a little naive. Unless you buy more into the nature argument than you do in the nurture argument. I know plenty of women who've been married to and had children with dirtbags and yet their kids turn out fine in the end, regardless of their genetic make-up.

The dangers you speculated on shouldn't exist at all. Buying sperm from a sperm-bank is as tidy as a formal adoption, from what I understand. The father signs away his rights to the sperm upon donation and the couple choosing the DNA has exclusive rights to it once purchased.

If I'm off in the wrong direction with this, I'm sure someone will chime in shortly.

~lucky

Enquiring minds want to know.

I split the line on the nerture vs. nature argument. I think we are partly how we are raised and partly how we were born. It's true that some kids with a lousy parent (or parents) turn out great. But there are also some kids with great parents that turn out to be zeros.

I understand that the spermbank is a much cleaner way of doing it. No envolvement from the father, cleaner legally, medical checks, etc. But I think that not knowing anything about the father would still bother me.

It's the friend donation that seems more problematic down the line to me. But at least you know where the kid is coming from so to speak. Is this really done or is it just something that is in movies?

Originally posted by doormouse
My sister had a baby to a guy who doesn't even know he's a father. Wouldn't be my choice, but it was a decision she made when the baby was born. The baby is a happy little boy, and I can't see him being any less/more happy if she were in a lesbian relationship. It's the love and atmosphere in a household that makes a huge impact on kids.

I completly agree. I never ment to say that a child raised in a lesbian (or gay male) household would be any less loved or less happy or whatever. I was just curious about what goes thru a womans mind as she makes the decision of who the father will be.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Re: Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

I split the line on the nerture vs. nature argument. I think we are partly how we are raised and partly how we were born. It's true that some kids with a lousy parent (or parents) turn out great. But there are also some kids with great parents that turn out to be zeros.

I think I agree with most of this, however, I don't believe I'd need to know every nuance of a sperm donor in order to choose one. I'd prefer some similar physical characteristics to my partner (if I was the one to carry the child, the egg would be mine and I know what I'm getting there...) I, personally, would look for any history of learning disabilities, health problems, criminal history, etc... I guess I'm of the thinking that sperm banks know best what most couples are looking for in a sperm donation and that they do their best to accept/deny what's going to be most marketable. Ugh, that's a lousy way of looking at it but there it is.

Perhaps a question for you would be; What types of problems could you see arising from a donor that was more or less a stranger to you?

We both have kids and know for a fact that they carry some of the same quirks as their folks, but does it really matter if you are able to attritube each of them to one parent or the other? I don't know. Just musing...

It's the friend donation that seems more problematic down the line to me. But at least you know where the kid is coming from so to speak. Is this really done or is it just something that is in movies?

If memory serves, this was the method that Des & Renza used, but I could be wrong. Sure, there are perks to knowing the person doing the donating, but I would actually rather do the sperm-bank method. In my mind, the child to be created is 'ours' regardless of where the other half of their DNA comes from. I don't know if I'd want to be comparing the child's mannerisms or looks to someone I know as a friend. To me it has the potential to be a bit more at the forefront of my mind that the child is of another (partially.) This may just be a mental weirdness of mind, but I think the baby would feel more like just ours if the donating party was mostly anonymous.

~lucky

 

[BigAndTall]

Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

Damn, you ask a lot of questions.

If done smartly, there shouldn't be any drawbacks. It's got a lot more potential to be seamless because the couple has more control. Sperm banks require rigorous screening as well as extensive health history screening.

As for picking the father? I think that's a little naive. Unless you buy more into the nature argument than you do in the nurture argument. I know plenty of women who've been married to and had children with dirtbags and yet their kids turn out fine in the end, regardless of their genetic make-up.

The dangers you speculated on shouldn't exist at all. Buying sperm from a sperm-bank is as tidy as a formal adoption, from what I understand. The father signs away his rights to the sperm upon donation and the couple choosing the DNA has exclusive rights to it once purchased.

If I'm off in the wrong direction with this, I'm sure someone will chime in shortly.

~lucky

Well. From what I understand more and more courts are finding cases where the child or the mother sues to get support from the donor. I am not sure how this plays out more than what I have read in the news, but would make me sure think 2 times if I ever thought about giving to a bank.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

Ugh, I meant to edit my previous post, but must've hig QUOTE on accident. This is for CD.

Additionally:
In my opinion, the ideal situation would be what my Aunt and her sister did. Her sister 'S' had previous surgeries and problems that made her unable to ovulate correctly and her eggs and her husband's sperm were not getting along that well. My Aunt donated her eggs to the effort and they were then joined with 'S's husband's sperm and implanted in 'S' afterwards. Everything worked out beautifully, the baby has as many of her genes as she shares with her sister and there's less of a chance that the donor would intervene in the baby's future. Also, most medical facilities that perform such procedures have huge legal departments that don't allow the donor any rights to the child in future. Once donated, they belong to the couple soliciting the transfer.

~lucky

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Re: Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

Well. From what I understand more and more courts are finding cases where the child or the mother sues to get support from the donor. I am not sure how this plays out more than what I have read in the news, but would make me sure think 2 times if I ever thought about giving to a bank.

You are probably right that people attempt to go after a donor, but I would be very surprised if a substantial number of such cases ever achieved their goal. Very surprised.

Many of the problems are similar to those of adoption, but I was of the understanding that the courts were growing more firm in their denials of such petitions.

~lucky

 

[Boxlicker101]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

You are probably right that people attempt to go after a donor, but I would be very surprised if a substantial number of such cases ever achieved their goal. Very surprised.

Many of the problems are similar to those of adoption, but I was of the understanding that the courts were growing more firm in their denials of such petitions.

~lucky

I've always been under the impression that a donor has neither rights nor responsibilities. Sperm from a bank is from anonymous donors although the descriptions of the men are available. The donors have no idea where their sperm is going.

If a woman prevails on a friend or a relative of her or her SO to be the donor, that might be another matter entirely, especially if the impregnation involved just the two persons.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for the lesbians out there

I've always been under the impression that a donor has neither rights nor responsibilities. Sperm from a bank is from anonymous donors although the descriptions of the men are available. The donors have no idea where their sperm is going.

Yes, that's how I've always known it to be as well.

If a woman prevails on a friend or a relative of her or her SO to be the donor, that might be another matter entirely, especially if the impregnation involved just the two persons.

This is where things could get sticky, in my estimation. I'd want plenty of legal done beforehand to be sure.

~lucky

 

[Pure]

I have heard of the 'friend' approach backfiring, where there's continued contact. The friend sued for visitation of 'his' child, a few years up the road. I guess he'd not had any others. He lost, but it was not pleasant.

 

[destinie21]

CD,
The father of our child is a friend althogh Renza was artificially insemenated (because neither of us wanted her having sex with him.) He reliquished all parental custody although he visits the baby all the time and is welcome in her life he will never play the role of a parent. As for whether or not it would be awkward for him not being the father figure I'd say not really no,we've discussed the topic many times and to us it's no different than being in what's known as an open adoption. As for biologiacl claim that's moot whether she's from my bloodline or not Zenobia is my child. Again it's no diffrent than adoption if Renza and I had adopted a child together he or she would be both of ours as well despite the tiny detail of the child having none of our genes. I am currently adopting Zenobia just to ensure that all parental rights and custody could legally be mine if something were to happen to Renza but that piece of paper wont make her my child anymore than she already is.

 

[TheEarl]

In the UK, the Labour government has just passed a law making it impossible for sperm donors to remain completely anonymous. Although the 'father' has no rights to the child conceived with his sperm, his child will have the right to know who their father is and to track him down in the future using information given when the sperm was donated.

This will have a terrible impact on sperm donation and donations are already dropping significantly. I'd be willing to donate sperm at my age (20), but I wouldn't want a child of mine to find me in 20 years. What would I say to him/her? What connection would we have? It'd be unfair both to the child, myself and whatever partner I was with at the time.

Interesting ramifications of a stupid law.

The Earl

 

[cheerful_deviant]

CD,
The father of our child is a friend althogh Renza was artificially insemenated (because neither of us wanted her having sex with him.) He reliquished all parental custody although he visits the baby all the time and is welcome in her life he will never play the role of a parent. As for whether or not it would be awkward for him not being the father figure I'd say not really no,we've discussed the topic many times and to us it's no different than being in what's known as an open adoption. As for biologiacl claim that's moot whether she's from my bloodline or not Zenobia is my child. Again it's no diffrent than adoption if Renza and I had adopted a child together he or she would be both of ours as well despite the tiny detail of the child having none of our genes. I am currently adopting Zenobia just to ensure that all parental rights and custody could legally be mine if something were to happen to Renza but that piece of paper wont make her my child anymore than she already is.

Thanks Des. I guess that was about how I expected it would be worked out with a friend. Still have contact, but no parenting.

I had wondered if no biological connection would matter, but you're probablly right, it really does not matter. Love and caring for the child is what forms the real bond. THere are plenty of adopted childern out there that are very loved by their adoptive families and there are also plenty of children born to conventional families that are abused and neglected.

 

[cantdog]

I take in strays a good deal. Just being in the room with a baby is such a cool idea I usually don't spend anywhere near enough time analyzing the ramifications.

If the dad has a change of heart and wants a role, it may well be a bridge you can cross when you come to it. People do not always act with much cold calculation.