A question for the lawyering types out there

[Hypoxia]

or San Francisco.

I've been to both. They're weirder in Manhattan.
_____

2. Pecos Bill: US Citizen

Do you have a birth certificate? He might be Canadian.

wouldn't necessarily have one back then, according to Halifax Fred.

Still an illegal. Get the deportation bus.
_____

3. Jesus: illegal alien but eligible for cancellation of removal and asylum as a member of a group persecuted by a government on the basis of religion.

The Church blames persecutions on a suppressed religion, not a gov't.

it was enough for asylum that the Roman government allowed the Jewish client state to persecute Him

Palestine was a Sabatean state run by the non-Jewish Herod clan, the richest family in the Roman Empire. And I'm talking of Baby Jesus, the immortal infant, as in, May the Baby Jesus Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Mind.
_____

5. Mickey Mouse: property of the Walt Disney Company.

What rights have an inhuman corporation and its minions?

right to own intellectual property, of which the mouse would be, as an avatar. alternately, the right to own any animal legal to possess, such as Mus musculus

The material corpus delecti of Mickey would assert self-ownership but might be bound by contract.
_____

8. Dracula: deportable as a war criminal or for having persecuted others.

Statute of limitations.

the statute would bar trial as a war criminal, but not his deportation.

For all we know, Vlad Dracul is in USA on a Romanian diplomatic passport. He's clever like that.
_____

10. All others: to be shot on sight / shot trying to escape.

That's the right-winger's excuse.

that's not an excuse, its a solution.

Again, be careful when shooting at mythical creatures. Do not annoy the basilisk.

I guess the big question is, can disparate mythical creatures be treated with any consistency legally, or is each a special case? And are mythical creatures bound by human laws? How do you serve a warrant on a fruminous bandersnatch? How can you tell you got the right one?

 

[Yerkiddin]

You're asking how a lawyer would act upon meeting a mythical creature? It depends. Does the creature want legal assistance? Can it pay for this, somehow? If not, then the lawyer would likely act just like anyone else.

 

[deRudio]

You're asking how a lawyer would act upon meeting a mythical creature? It depends. Does the creature want legal assistance? Can it pay for this, somehow? If not, then the lawyer would likely act just like anyone else.

any lawyer on the planet would jump at the chance. he'd make millions as the thing's agent.

 

[Hypoxia]

any lawyer on the planet would jump at the chance. he'd make millions as the thing's agent.

Especially a mermaid. Golems may be more problematic.

Meanwhile, fill your copious free time reading Wikipedia's List of legendary creatures by type. Almost a monster mashup, hey?

 

[deRudio]

Especially a mermaid. Golems may be more problematic.

Meanwhile, fill your copious free time reading Wikipedia's List of legendary creatures by type. Almost a monster mashup, hey?

I'm not saying that I know the type, but cold, wet and clammy is not my idea of a fun time.

take one from column A, one from column B, one from ….

 

[blackmohammed]

So it seems we have arrived at the point where the story idea of a lawyer being involved with a mythical creature and representing it has multiple plot points that need to be worked out.

-What kind of creature is it?

-Can it communicate with and pay the lawyer?

-Is it part of a nation of mythical creatures and can it represent them?

-Are there any consequences for the government in messing with the creature?

-Are there any laws that the Mythical creature needs to follow?

 

[rutger5]

You're asking how a lawyer would act upon meeting a mythical creature? It depends. Does the creature want legal assistance? Can it pay for this, somehow? If not, then the lawyer would likely act just like anyone else.

any lawyer on the planet would jump at the chance. he'd make millions as the thing's agent.

I think Michael Avenetti has found his newest client.

 

[deRudio]

So it seems we have arrived at the point where the story idea of a lawyer being involved with a mythical creature and representing it has multiple plot points that need to be worked out.

-What kind of creature is it?

-Can it communicate with and pay the lawyer?

-Is it part of a nation of mythical creatures and can it represent them?

-Are there any consequences for the government in messing with the creature?

-Are there any laws that the Mythical creature needs to follow?

you're assuming that the creature is both sentient and has roughly human social skills and ethics. a talking wolf would still be a wolf.

if this is something new, then fees would not in this world or any world in the know universe be a problem.

if this is a "nation" of creatures, then the lawyer might be an agent -- like a Hollywood or sports agent -- but not at the government to government level.

 

[Yerkiddin]

any lawyer on the planet would jump at the chance. he'd make millions as the thing's agent.

Really? So the mythical creature wants to be outted to the world? (OUR world???) Everything about a mythical creature would need to be ruled on from scratch, so you'd need to be specialized in Constitutional law to start with, and know all about dealing with celebrities as well, but in addition to that, you'd need connections with the government of whatever country you were in, in that their military and medical establishments would both likely want time to study the creature and any of its belongings. And that's just the legal side.

You'd also need to arrange for protection of the creature from the public, as well as possibly protection of the public (yourself included!) from the creature. Add to this that you likely have no book or source to help you prepare for how to deal with the creature, and there's a whole lot of ignorance in play here. If you're already wealthy and have trusted friends that run a major law firm, and more trusted friends running the government where you are, then yes, you could potentially make rather a lot of money from this. (So a Walton heir with the business drive of PT Barnum and friends in the right places, and you're set!)

 

[deRudio]

I guess the big question is, can disparate mythical creatures be treated with any consistency legally, or is each a special case? And are mythical creatures bound by human laws? How do you serve a warrant on a fruminous bandersnatch? How can you tell you got the right one?

Pecos Bill probably wouldn't have a birth certificate if he were born late 19th century on the southwest frontier. An Anglo-American simply attesting to citizenship would be sufficient.

Asylum claims are valid if either the government is doing the persecution (either the Roman authorities or the Jewish client state) or the government is permitting a NGO to persecute on the basis of religious belief.

Impossible to answer the big question until more facts are available as to particular kinds of -- whatever these are. Rights afforded to various non-human brutes (werewolves, vampires, golem, etc.) was a big deal in Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels.

If they are sentient and dangerous, either negotiate some kind of interspecific treaty or kill them all. It isn't like I'm suggesting wiping out the chamber of commerce. I see this as more of a security rather than legal problem, no one is going to allow a Ballhog to tool around burning down cities. Am I the only voice of Reason here?

 

[deRudio]

Really? So the mythical creature wants to be outted to the world? (OUR world???) Everything about a mythical creature would need to be ruled on from scratch, so you'd need to be specialized in Constitutional law to start with, and know all about dealing with celebrities as well, but in addition to that, you'd need connections with the government of whatever country you were in, in that their military and medical establishments would both likely want time to study the creature and any of its belongings. And that's just the legal side.

You'd also need to arrange for protection of the creature from the public, as well as possibly protection of the public (yourself included!) from the creature. Add to this that you likely have no book or source to help you prepare for how to deal with the creature, and there's a whole lot of ignorance in play here. If you're already wealthy and have trusted friends that run a major law firm, and more trusted friends running the government where you are, then yes, you could potentially make rather a lot of money from this. (So a Walton heir with the business drive of PT Barnum and friends in the right places, and you're set!)

If I had the beast under contract as its agent, I'd hire whatever outside legal expertise needed (my own working knowledge of constitutional law is not inconsiderable). If I had a unicorn or a nymph to exhibit, every fanboy/gamer/COMICON/Renfaire-reject and his imaginary girlfriend would give his right arm to see this. Money would flood in and -- you've got to understand how things really work -- money buys everything including friends, influence, power, talent, access to people who count. You've got to think big. I don't worry about there not being a book, I'll write the book.

All this assumes we're in some civilized country, excluding France or California.

 

[Hypoxia]

Pecos Bill probably wouldn't have a birth certificate if he were born late 19th century on the southwest frontier. An Anglo-American simply attesting to citizenship would be sufficient.

Wikipedia sez:

According to the legend, Pecos Bill was born in Texas in the 1830s...​

Aha. That makes him a Mexican citizen.

Asylum claims are valid if either the government is doing the persecution [...] or the government is permitting a NGO to persecute on the basis of religious belief.

Now asylum seekers are illegally detained or repulsed. No myth. But a divine being can rise above persecution by mere humans. If not, it ain't really a divine being, is it? Just another refugee. Yawn.

Impossible to answer the big question until more facts are available as to particular kinds of -- whatever these are.

Exactly my point. Mythical creatures come in many varieties, as I noted in the list linked above. A grab-bag approach can't work. Especially with centaurs.

If they are sentient and dangerous, either negotiate some kind of interspecific treaty or kill them all. It isn't like I'm suggesting wiping out the chamber of commerce. I see this as more of a security rather than legal problem, no one is going to allow a Ballhog to tool around burning down cities. Am I the only voice of Reason here?

As I said, do not annoy a basilisk, or Medusa, or a pain-god. The only counter for a myth is a stronger myth, or a real dumbing-down of the target myth. Let them read 4chan.

 

[deRudio]

Wikipedia sez:

According to the legend, Pecos Bill was born in Texas in the 1830s...​

Aha. That makes him a Mexican citizen.

until Texas independence, after which he'd be a Texian, then US citizen, then a CS citizen, the back to being a USC.

Now asylum seekers are illegally detained or repulsed. No myth. But a divine being can rise above persecution by mere humans. If not, it ain't really a divine being, is it? Just another refugee. Yawn.

a refugee who crosses the border illegally will be detained, if caught, which is by no means certain. he or she has one year to apply for asylum status, which most illegals don't bother doing as they'd rather stay below the radar. when they're picked up, if the year has passed, they are SOL for asylum. otherwise there are all kinds of other remedies, the US has an extremely generous immigration law -- but don't deal drugs and don't commit certain types of felonies while here.

but focus on a refugee picked up at the border who applies for asylum. most of them do not qualify under US or international law as eligible for asylum because they are typically economic refugees or fleeing from non-governmental violence (narco-gangs in central america or mex. to be an asylee, you have to be on the run from government or government permitted persecution on the basis of political belief, gender, race, religion, sexual preference or a few other narrow categories. if you're a persecuted Laotian Buddhist or a Chinese Christian you're a better candidate for persecution than a Mexican who wants a job in the US.

in the not too recent past, someone picked up in the US would be given a hearing date sometimes years in the future to defend against removal (deportation) and be released, often never to appear. now the government is streamlining the asylum claims and detention instead of catch and release is one of these policies.

I'm not taking a position one way or the other, just explaining how these things work.

a divine being might be a candidate for asylum …. Lucifer is fallen....

Exactly my point. Mythical creatures come in many varieties, as I noted in the list linked above. A grab-bag approach can't work. Especially with centaurs.

it seems we agree, and the world must end.

As I said, do not annoy a basilisk, or Medusa, or a pain-god. The only counter for a myth is a stronger myth, or a real dumbing-down of the target myth. Let them read 4chan.

or pitbulls at a dog park.

 

[gordo12]

Especially a mermaid. Golems may be more problematic.

Meanwhile, fill your copious free time reading Wikipedia's List of legendary creatures by type. Almost a monster mashup, hey?

Hey thanks for that. I like to write little stories sometimes that need special action stars

That's a great list!