A question for parents:

[ABSTRUSE]

I think part of the lesson should focus on the Germans and how ordinary German people became wrapped in the ideology at the time. It's something that can easily happen to us, even now. I am not sure how I'd put it in terms that grade 4 people would understand, but I do believe that looking at things from all perspectives is important at that age. I might, in such a class, bring an object or bauble and then ask students to describe from different angles.

I wonder........kids know what the right thing to do is/was.......but at that time, so did others, but yet.....it happened, is happening. So many questions to answer......"What would you do?"

 

[jomar]

They will need to reassured of their safety, security and well being.

 

[Guest]

I was absolutely fascinated by the holocaust at about that age, and actually looked deeply into the old forgotten books and such to find the exact details you're planning on leaving out. I wanted to see the pictures of the people, and of the bodies piled up, and to read about the experiments and things done in the camps. I understand that not everybody is like this, and most don't have that level of fascination with the fact that IT COULD HAPPEN at all, so...

Separate the students. On one side of the classroom, all of those with dark hair and eyes, those with light hair and eyes on the other. From the second group take out any that are smaller than the others. Any that are sick, or have any sort of physical problems. Then the ones whose ancestors are from England or Russia, or any of those other 'inferior' countries.

Then point out that the one or two that are left would be the only ones to survive if it happened again.

Yes. They've done this experiment in my daughter's school every year when they study the Holocaust. The lesson becomes much more real to them, especially when they are split up from their friends, placed into groups, forced to imagine what if - - -

I'm an Air Force brat. Dad was stationed at Ramstein AFB in what was at the time, West Germany. My family toured Dachau when I was in 5th grade.

I haven't forgotten. Seeing the ovens, especially, made a serious impact.

Kids need to know, need to be exposed to this. Preferably in small doses until they can wrap their minds around the entire thing.

 

[Recidiva]

I wonder........kids know what the right thing to do is/was.......but at that time, so did others, but yet.....it happened, is happening. So many questions to answer......"What would you do?"

The mechanic works like this: Someone you know, someone is in authority, tells you someone else is bad, is inhuman, is hurting you, wants to hurt you.

Do you believe them? Or do you find out for yourself? If you find out for yourself, are you afraid you'll be hurt if you stand up for them?

The mechanics of marginalization.

 

[impressive]

I wonder........kids know what the right thing to do is/was.......but at that time, so did others, but yet.....it happened, is happening. So many questions to answer......"What would you do?"

If you know about an atrocity, yet do nothing to stop it, what does that make YOU?

 

[Recidiva]

If you know about an atrocity, yet do nothing to stop it, what does that make YOU?

Most often, no matter how much you want to paint people as evil, most often they're just terrified of being the one on the other end of the stoning if they don't pick a rock up. It makes them scared.

 

[impressive]

Most often, no matter how much you want to paint people as evil, most often they're just terrified of being the one on the other end of the stoning if they don't pick a rock up. It makes them scared.

Exactly. Ref earlier post re fear.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

If you know about an atrocity, yet do nothing to stop it, what does that make YOU?

Very very good question!


I love how everyone is contributing to this, thank you all so much.

 

[Recidiva]

Exactly. Ref earlier post re fear.

I think people are taught to root out "evil" and "hate" often and fail to do so because they don't recognize fear and anger as the basis of that.

Not when fear and anger are being glorified.

 

[jomar]

Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ideology my ass. Jesus was as envious of Jewish money as anyone.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

omg...I forgot about that! I read this in college.

 

[Recidiva]

Ideology my ass. Jesus was as envious of Jewish money as anyone.

Dude. Seriously, get a hold on the difference between "self" and "other people."

 

[CharleyH]

I wonder........kids know what the right thing to do is/was.......but at that time, so did others, but yet.....it happened, is happening. So many questions to answer......"What would you do?"

I would (if I was a teacher or a parent) arm that child with all the knowledge I have. Of course, I'd do it at different periods in time. Fourth graders need options. They are inquisitive, but you don't need to give them much. As I articulated, you need only present a ball and ask them to describe it from multiple angles and lighting situations to get them to think beyond the ball. As for other situations? What are you asking, Abs?

 

[glynndah]

We did that play, "I Never Saw Another Butterfly" in high school. I can distinctly remember marching down the tiled auditorium aisle to re-create the sounds of jackboots in the Polish streets. Writing the numbers on the actors' arms, even if it was only with a Sharpie. Feeling very uncomfortable when the director asked the German exchange student to record the lines of the Gestapo.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RECIDIVA

Do your homework, dear. There are more inconvenient truths than Al Gore can shake his weenie at. Hitler was simply the latest in a long line of thugs after easy money.

 

[Recidiva]

RECIDIVA

Do your homework, dear. There are more inconvenient truths than Al Gore can shake his weenie at. Hitler was simply the latest in a long line of thugs after easy money.

That's got nothing to do with you claiming to know the opinion of Jesus.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Read your Bible, dear. It's filled with snarky remarks about wealthy Jews, and very consistent with what we know of historical Jesus. Jesus was a ner do well socialist who tossed turds at the wealthy Jews.

 

[Recidiva]

Read your Bible, dear. It's filled with snarky remarks about wealthy Jews, and very consistent with what we know of historical Jesus. Jesus was a ner do well socialist who tossed turds at the wealthy Jews.

I've read the bible. Fortunately the information went into my brain and not yours. I'm grateful for that, because that means the conclusions have some connection to reality.

 

[CharleyH]

That's got nothing to do with you claiming to know the opinion of Jesus.

God and Jesus are as real as Zeus and Hera - stop with religion on this thread and take it elsewhere. Your dumb arguments have no place on Abs' current thread.

 

[Recidiva]

God and Jesus are as real as Zeus and Hera - stop with religion on this thread and take it elsewhere. Your dumb arguments have no place on Abs' current thread.

Charley, much as you consider yourself an authority and someone who should be feared, unfortunately this has the effect of making me giggle and wanting to say "Oh yeah? OH YEAH?" in the same sort of futile attempt to exert authority in an inherently chaotic and anarchistic system.

Put me on ignore if you don't want to hear me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Religion is always an excuse to rob Jews. You cant separate them.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I suspect ABS will simply attach a wrapper to her Holocaust material; THIS SHIT HAS BEEN SANITIZED FOR YOUR COMFORT AND CONVENIENCE.

 

[Weird Harold]

Religion is always an excuse to rob Jews. You cant separate them.

But religion was NOT the excuse for the holocaust -- that was Ethnic Cleansing based on the Jewish Race rather than the Jewish Religion. The Jews were the primary target in large part because of the money, but the excuse was "Aryan Purity."

ABS, don't forget to include 'Ethnic Cleansing' in your summation. "Eugenics" as a portion of the justification of anti-semitism and racism is probably a bit far afield for fourth graders but don't forget the Gypsies and other "undesireables" who perished along with the Jews.

 

[3113]

Separate the students. On one side of the classroom, all of those with dark hair and eyes, those with light hair and eyes on the other. From the second group take out any that are smaller than the others. Any that are sick, or have any sort of physical problems. Then the ones whose ancestors are from England or Russia, or any of those other 'inferior' countries.

Then point out that the one or two that are left would be the only ones to survive if it happened again.

This is fine, but do NOT under any circumstances do the "psychological" experiment that was done with real kids in an elementary school where the teacher actually favored the blue-eyed blondes for a day, giving them special favors, and cut out the dark-haired ones, treating them as outcasts, all without explanation until the "reveal" (hahaha! You all acted like Nazis!).

The teacher that did that, breaking up friendships and such, may have made her point (or not) but was also fired, and rightly so. It's never a good idea to play psychological games on kids. Fuck with them like that and all they learn is to stop trusting their teachers.