Suggestions for Trouble Spots in a Paranormal Spy Story?

[atenai]

Hi all, I'm hoping some of you might have ideas where I've come up short. I have a story that involves a woman with some psychic talents and a man we'll call a spy to simply things. Something like CIA maybe, I haven't gone into all the details yet. Don't ask, I don't know where the idea came from. Just so we're on the same track, here's the first few paragraphs... my questions and concerns are below it. For all that this is going to be two people thrown together, with more than a little paranormal, it's still supposed to be romance between them, and erotica. Not gritty spy things.

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I don't usually knock into random passersby whose thoughts are so loud I can hear them. But on that otherwise lovely spring morning, I met Alec rather abruptly in the North End; he was in such a hurry he didn't see me or my cane, and managed to kick it out from under me before he could stop, sending me to my knees.
Let me say now, I hate that cane. Makes me feel like an old lady. But that was one of the days I desperately needed it to keep me on my feet, and when it went flying into the harbor, I was not pleased. I admit my vocabulary may have been somewhat impaired. "Fucker!"

"I'm sorry, miss," replied the stranger in the flyaway tan suit, hastily backing up a step. "But I really have to go."

If I know anything, I know that people serve themselves first. I'm just as bad as the next person more days than not. But my mind wasn't thinking straight. "Fifty points for the cripple with the cane, see if you can knock her over?" Even enraged, however, I didn't miss the fact that as I straightened, trying to get my better foot under me, two men in dark jackets and sunglasses ducked out of my line of sight.

This was where my hurrying idiot surprised me. Looking him right in the face, I heard his voice even though his lips never moved. Please get up, lady, you're gonna get me killed.
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Woman hears things sometimes, and is inclined to help this guy for reasons she doesn't understand.

Problem point A: to help him contact friends without getting shot, she has to do it for him, making herself a target. When he gets away clean, the guy following him (we'll just call him the Big Bad Evil Guy) goes after her. Here's the thing... torturing someone for information isn't pretty. Am I getting in over my head? I've considered cutting out the nastiest parts, but there's a certain amount that's going to be inferred, regardless. So far the best I've come up with is to have her get caught, some kind of BBEG evil genius speech about how she'll tell him everything she knows, and then cut. (I should mention that while some reluctance can be hot in my stories, actual rape as a torture device is not erotic in the least, and I'd never try to make it such.)

My best segue is to switch to his perspective and have some friend come give him news that the BBEG is torturing someone because the hero got away, and have the hero get worried when he recognizes the basic description. That cuts out as many details as I can.

Problem point B: Aftermath of torturing someone isn't pretty either, especially when the tortured individual is bait for someone as talented as a special agent for whatever agency-with-initials. Not only is a certain amount of explanation required, the first thing that he would do if the spy could rescue her is take her to a doctor to get checked out. I can't skip the logical part, or the part where the doctor informs him in no simple terms what the BBEG and his goons did, amounting to days of torture and rape.

So...

1. Have I gone so far off course that what could be a pleasant paranormal romance, even a spy-themed romance, has become something nasty and not worth writing?

2. If this is worth writing, it's going to be much MUCH darker than anything I've written for the site before, and I'm honestly not clear how well I write dark yet erotic. Pointers? Suggestions?

3. I feel like instead of flowing naturally into the sex scenes, there'd be such a gap between the torture and getting them back together safely that sex at that point starts to seem ridiculous. Is there an audience on this site for thriller/horror without sex? Not entirely without, but the percentage would be awfully small.

Maybe I'm over thinking this and you all can shut me up and we'll see what happens. At the moment I've stopped writing because there are too many problems arising in my head for the words to come easily.

Please, any comments will be most helpful, even if the answer is to skip this idea and focus on other things.

 

[PennLady]

First off, if he's in such a hurry, why does he even take the time to apologize? And if he just can't help himself being courteous, why doesn't he duck down to make himself less visible? If the guys chasing him got down, their line of vision is gone/impaired (unless there's something telepathic going on that you haven't told the reader), and he could take advantage of that. He could lose his jacket or something when he gets down to help the woman, to change his appearance slightly. (I also have no idea what a "flyaway" suit is.)

I'll ask this: does she have to get caught? I've read a lot of novels like this, paranormal and not, and often the couple is on the run together. What if, for example, when she goes to make the phone call, he's watching out and saves her from the bad guys and they go on the run? Which is going to be complicated by the fact that she has a bad leg; don't forget that detail.

Here's something to consider, too, that often bothers me when an innocent is captured in a book or movie. They get captured and questioned and answer honestly that they don't know anything. After some questioning, why not have the person in charge be smart enough to believe that the person doesn't know anything? That it's a coincidence, and torture will not help? She could still be held as a hostage or used as bait, but you could avoid the torturing all together.

If you still think torture is necessary, does it have to be sexual in nature? Can it be more psychological, like the use of noise or sleep deprivation? Or have it remain physical but be something else, like breaking fingers? Or since paranormal stuff is involved, something different entirely? A mental invasion to put thoughts of pain in her head?

Because you're right, going from days of torture and rape to a nice, loving relationship with the guy is a huge swing. IRL, that woman would need therapy and medical attention after such a thing. I know it's fiction, so you can get away without that reality, but still.

As for the audience, Lit is big enough that there's an audience for just about everything.

You can switch POVs in the story, just make sure you're consistent and clear about it. If it's that much trouble, though, why not just make it all third person? You could then switch between characters pretty easily.

 

[damppanties]

Some good suggestions from PennLady and here are mine, fwiw:

If you want to avoid descriptions of the torture, it might be best to let the main protag hear about the torture from someone else, yes.

In relation to your problem, moving the story from torture to sex might be where your romance kicks in actually. In order to fall in love with the psychic, the protag might need to take care of her while she recovers a bit from her injuries, and what better way to come closer and fall in love other than when you're doing something selfless for the other person. The taking care part could be romantic or full of sexual tension too if you choose to make it so.

 

[sr71plt]

Looks like a mess to me. And I think that mixing the paranormal with spying is a nonstarter. Spying is all about reality and the plausible you'd rather not see. Paranormal in writing too often is used as a cop out for not figuring out what would be plausible.

I have no idea what a "flyaway tan suit is" and thinking about it would have stopped me in my tracks and distracted me from reading your story.

When the cane flew into the harbor, did you mean it went into the water? The harbor is the whole surrounding area, not just the water. If you meant it was going into the water, your wording is imprecise and, again, will tend to stop the reader's flow. I suspect trying to be clever with your writing and ending up imprecise might be one of your major trouble spots.

 

[Handley_Page]

PennLady First off, if he's in such a hurry, why does he even take the time to apologize? And if he just can't help himself being courteous, why doesn't he duck down to make himself less visible? If the guys chasing him got down, their line of vision is gone/impaired (unless there's something telepathic going on that you haven't told the reader), and he could take advantage of that. He could lose his jacket or something when he gets down to help the woman, to change his appearance slightly. (I also have no idea what a "flyaway" suit is.)

Perhaps he IS polite but in a bit of a rush?

A brief quiz of Google got this one on the flyaway suit.

 

[damppanties]

Looks like a mess to me. And I think that mixing the paranormal with spying is a nonstarter. Spying is all about reality and the plausible you'd rather not see. Paranormal in writing too often is used as a cop out for not figuring out what would be plausible.

I remember at least two stories where a psychic was used in conjunction with law enforcement officers in an action oriented story, and I liked the stories. Don't see why these are supposed to be opposing factors at all.

 

[PennLady]

PennLady First off, if he's in such a hurry, why does he even take the time to apologize? And if he just can't help himself being courteous, why doesn't he duck down to make himself less visible? If the guys chasing him got down, their line of vision is gone/impaired (unless there's something telepathic going on that you haven't told the reader), and he could take advantage of that. He could lose his jacket or something when he gets down to help the woman, to change his appearance slightly. (I also have no idea what a "flyaway" suit is.)

Perhaps he IS polite but in a bit of a rush?

Well of course he's in a bit of a rush. The question is, given what else the OP said, why this guy would actually stop and apologize if he's in such a rush. I don't mind if he stops, but give me a good reason. If you're running for your life, or your freedom, you likely aren't going to do much more than toss out a "Sorry!" as you keep running. Why is it important for him to stop for this woman?

There's also a lot of info we don't have here that would inform the story. Is this guy is someone who's used to running and can keep his head? If so, he could use the accident to help himself -- as I said, he could duck out of sight of his pursuers under the guise of helping the woman and take advantage of it to get rid of his jacket or something. If he's not used to it, then it's more believable that he'd stop to apologize -- habit would take over.

A brief quiz of Google got this one on the flyaway suit.

Interesting that most of the images are women's clothing. Perhaps the guy should just be wearing a tan suit.

 

[sr71plt]

I remember at least two stories where a psychic was used in conjunction with law enforcement officers in an action oriented story, and I liked the stories. Don't see why these are supposed to be opposing factors at all.

Law enforcement and spying are two entirely different animals. Hate to break it to you, but much of spying is counter to "legal." And I'll bet those stories illustrated my using the paranormal as a cop out to cover the implausible comment to a tee anyway. Being enjoyable is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[PennLady]

I remember at least two stories where a psychic was used in conjunction with law enforcement officers in an action oriented story, and I liked the stories. Don't see why these are supposed to be opposing factors at all.

They don't have to be opposing factors, but sr71 is right in that a "spy story" tends to be grounded in reality -- at least the reality of the story -- and paranormal is almost by definition not.

The OP has gone past something like a psychic and into the realm of telepathy, which is not reality. So I would say the story may be a mess, but doesn't have to be, if the OP can plan out the story to incorporate the elements. At this point, we don't know why the guy is running or what abilities he does or doesn't have.

ETA: I posted while sr was posting, I think, and I would agree that law enforcement and espionage are different critters with different rules. I think the OP is more talking about a "thriller" type story -- romance, suspense, paranormal, etc. -- as opposed to a spy story.

 

[sr71plt]

A brief quiz of Google got this one on the flyaway suit.

I didn't check the link (although PL's comment on the relevance to men's clothing might be a good point), but I don't need to, as I'm willing to concede that the reference need not go to the lowest common denominator of any reader's understanding, and that the reader can benefit from looking some things up and adding to their fund of knowledge.

That said, I'll push what is really the important part of the point in terms of writing. Given that some readers will either have to break away to figure out what a flyaway tan suit is or just leave it as a question in the back of their minds to continue to intrude on their read, such a reference--for a writer--needs then to be important to setting the character or the scene or in serving the plot. Is the "flyaway tan suit" necessary to serving the story? Maybe so. The author would know that or not. As an editor, with what is given, I'd just challenge the author on the point. But if such a term isn't necessary to serving the story, it should just fly away as being unnecessarily distracting to at least some of the readers--and thus not serving the story enough to be there.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Reality? Don't make me laugh. Spy work is all about unmasking bullshit and nonsense.

 

[sr71plt]

Yeah, maybe "spying" just wasn't really meant.

I write spy stories (and not just in erotica) and I've written paranormal stories (and not just in erotica). Just not usually in the same story. (Although I admit that a publisher made me introduce the paranormal in a mainstream international espionage novel, and I've always regretted that I caved in and tried it. Even so, I tried to avoid making it a convenient and false opportunity to tie up plot threads.)

 

[sr71plt]

Reality? Don't make me laugh. Spy work is all about unmasking bullshit and nonsense.

I'm not sure what you thought you were posting, JBJ. What's the difference between unmasking bullshit and nonsense and achieving reality?

Sounds to me like you're agreeing with me and not realizing it. (Speaking of unmasking bullshit and nonsense. )

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm not sure what you thought you were posting, JBJ. What's the difference between unmasking bullshit and nonsense and achieving reality?

Sounds to me like you're agreeing with me and not realizing it. (Speaking of unmasking bullshit and nonsense. )

Don't jack me, Jack, I read all the LeCarre exposes', so I know!

 

[sr71plt]

Don't jack me, Jack, I read all the LeCarre exposes', so I know!

Yeah, I didn't think you realized you had screwed yourself up with that first posting.

Talk about nonsense writing.

 

[SecondCircle]

For me, there's not enough information about the story for anyone to provide any great advice about it. I realize there's the section of the story and the overview that OP gave, but it sounds like a pretty big story. Lot of moving parts and tricky elements to pull off.

It seems kinda crazy, with all that seems to be going on. Spy, paranormal, torture, romance or sex, conspiracy of some sort, etc. Not saying it can't be done, but it's a lot of intricate things to tie together.

The idea that a "spy" or espionage story cannot mesh with the paranormal or otherworldly things is sorta ridiculous to me. I mean, technically ANYTIME you include the paranormal into any story, you're adding it to elements that are "grounded in reality." And there are countless stories here on lit with more farfetched topics than spy + paranormal.

As far as the scene, it all sorta seems confusing to me. Maybe it's because it's out of context or something, I dunno, but I just feel like I don't know enough about what's going on to suggest anything helpful. Help him contact friends? Like how? He's being chased or just followed? They obviously wanna kill the dude, but I'm confused as to how the telepath can help him in this situation. By... contacting friends? Like... his friends? How could they help him? Her friends? Who is going to be able to help in an instant while he's being chased? Like I know she's a telepath, but I'm just not sure what would fit in the parameters of the story.

Maybe it's me, but I'm just not quite sure what all is really going on. But I do think that just the implication that torture is going to happen to her, and then the guy saves her or something, or sneaks her out or something along those lines... that would probably be enough. The torture ain't gotta mean intense graphic violence. Just terrifying. And someone saved from this sort of pain would definitely look upon their savior fondly. It'd be a bonding experience never to forget.

 

[PennLady]

For me, there's not enough information about the story for anyone to provide any great advice about it. I realize there's the section of the story and the overview that OP gave, but it sounds like a pretty big story. Lot of moving parts and tricky elements to pull off.

This is true. I was trying to comment mostly about what was presented but that is pretty limiting in terms of commenting because you don't know what's going on.

It seems kinda crazy, with all that seems to be going on. Spy, paranormal, torture, romance or sex, conspiracy of some sort, etc. Not saying it can't be done, but it's a lot of intricate things to tie together.

Again, true. Not that it can't be done, but I think the author would have to have a plan roughed out that would have all of these elements and how they tie together. I also generally think that getting rid of a couple of the potential elements might be a good thing.

The idea that a "spy" or espionage story cannot mesh with the paranormal or otherworldly things is sorta ridiculous to me. I mean, technically ANYTIME you include the paranormal into any story, you're adding it to elements that are "grounded in reality." And there are countless stories here on lit with more farfetched topics than spy + paranormal.

As with any story, I think if you lay out the rules and keep it plausible within its own bubble, you can combine just about anything.

Maybe it's me, but I'm just not quite sure what all is really going on. But I do think that just the implication that torture is going to happen to her, and then the guy saves her or something, or sneaks her out or something along those lines... that would probably be enough. The torture ain't gotta mean intense graphic violence. Just terrifying. And someone saved from this sort of pain would definitely look upon their savior fondly. It'd be a bonding experience never to forget.

It's not just you. I think we can all toss out some guesses and suggestions but without knowing more about the story in its entirety, it won't be much help. Unfortunately it doesn't seem the OP has the story mapped out. I agree with the torture, less could be more.

 

[sr71plt]

For anyone who is interested, there's a lot (a whole lot) more candy and blackmail involved in spying than physical torture.

 

[Weird Harold]

... At the moment I've stopped writing because there are too many problems arising in my head for the words to come easily.

I think your muse may be trying to tell you something -- like, This just isn't going to work."


From your description and concerns, it seems as if the torture element is simply "gratuitous violence" and has no place in your story.

I have trouble "suspending disbelief" when it come to your hero giving sensitive contact information to a total stranger, no matter how desperate his situation might be. I even have trouble with the common scenario of planting secret documents/microfilm on a random person as a way of involving "Joe Average" in an action adventure plot.

Since your heroine is a budding telepath, perhaps the hero doesn't need to consciously reveal anything to her. Perhaps she picks up a silent appeal for help or some other thought that involves her in the A/A plot.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Keep going with your idea, OP.

Who knows - YOU may be psychic are are picking up something actually going on.

Just a guess, but I would say all groups concerned with manipulating human behaviour have been studying all aspects - including potential psychic ones - of human psychology and unusual abilities for a long long time now.

Simple empathy is the easiest bridge between two people where the relationship or parallel actions are difficult to explain otherwise.

Empathy is not difficult to weave into this story if 1. the agent has experienced physical/psychological trauma, and 2. the female he runs into also has experienced the same sorts of things.

Readers are fairly smart these days and you don't really have to explain too many things to them as the story flows along and they 'observe' the actions happening.

 

[ltpc]

Sounds to me like you're agreeing with me and not realizing it. (Speaking of unmasking bullshit and nonsense. )

Some real spy work going on under our noses.

Ok got to make that first post sometime... whew... (brow mop).

Firstly, does the woman, who needs a cane, actually go flying into what I presume is a freezing harbour? How does she get out?

My thoughts are, if you want to build romance/trust between the characters and are balking at the idea of torture, which to be fair isn't the best way to make people fall in love, then don't do it. To me it sounds like you've got a better grasp of the main characters than the story line, it would be a shame to waste them by giving up. Here are my cliché suggestions:

Using her ability, the woman helps him escape his pursuers/provides some insight which helps him go on his way and complete his spy task. But he's a spy so he's got his mind on the mission, not some random chick with a cane, which by the way is an interesting story crutch (sorry, absolutely had to). Anyway, using her information/help he gains some relatively minor spying victory and escapes from trouble. Meanwhile, she goes on and lives her life for a few days/weeks, which is an opportunity for you to explain to us what her situation and emotional state is.

Back from the mission, with the bad guy (save for later) slightly vanquished, the spy considers the situation with the woman more carefully, realising there is something not quite right. Perhaps she is also an intelligence operative, how else did she know what she did? He therefore looks her up with his spy powers and perhaps tries to figure out her secrets, getting close and befriending her.

The world is pretty much your oyster from there... you could go for:

Creepy stalkish, charming romantic, it could be quick, it could take forever, ect ect. Whatever, just write them together as you choose, learning to trust and like each other. That way they don't have to fall in love right after she gets tortured and you can have awesome sex in your story without going straight to the brutal rape.

As to the mutual revelation (he's actually a spy and she's actually paranormal) you can once again play it however you want. They could just accept it and move on, madly in love. They could have a break up before realising they can't live without each other. Perhaps she's been reading his mind the whole time and knows he's a spy but likes him so much she's afraid he'll just go away when he finds out she isn't (or is she??). Who knows.

Anyway, if you really want to bring the torture back, how about the bad guys come back for a second round, this time realising that our spy has a new vulnerability. Again, if you don't want to do the torture, don't. He could rescue her or she might even use her powers to escape. It could be an experience which ultimately brings them together to start working as a team to explore their erotic, non-gritty, paranormal, spy-world. In conclusion, establish their relationship before the torture/rape.

But hey, it's my first post.

 

[atenai]

First off, thanks to everyone who posted and continued the discussion while I wasn't on the boards. The general agreement over my first draft poor wording and the questionable mix of story elements helps me out a lot, even without details. I was avoiding going into too much detail, honestly, because having you all debate the specifics gives me more to work with. I think your discussion has answered most, if not all, of my questions/reservations, so thank you all! I appreciate the insight you've given me, whether you were encouraging my idea or voicing the negatives (which I needed to hear).

I think your muse may be trying to tell you something -- like, This just isn't going to work."

Well... yeah, that's why I stopped writing. Didn't even glance over the few paragraphs I posted here for errors, which is new and careless of me. Since people indicated a variety of concerns with the text I did post, I've got a lot to think about before starting this back up again. There's a lot of things that are kinda a stretch, so I obviously need to think each through before deciding to include it in the story.

@ltpc: Thanks for sharing your first post with me, and welcome to the boards! (Yeah, I'm a month late, but hey, better late than never.) I appreciate what you wrote and you've got a good grasp of most of where my ideas lay, especially the back-and-forth nature of the strange causality involved here. I think your version makes more sense than mine, so I'll definitely be keeping track of this post.

While I'm definitely going to take another crack at this, I think I'm going to set it aside for a bit first, give myself some distance so when I come back I can see the objective side of things better. I'm getting myself into quite a project with this one, if I really want to write the whole story, and it may be over my head. I guess I'll find out.