A new school prayer--Opinions?

[willywanker]

Since the Pledge of Allegiance and The Lord's Prayer are not
allowed in most public schools anymore because the word
"God" is mentioned....a kid in Arizona wrote the attached
NEW School prayer. I offer it for your opinions.

Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen

 

[ranajja]

Right on!

Out of the mouths of babes...

 

[Guru]

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Blah-Blah Whatever. I'm tired of people making this an "I hate God" issue, when it's really just an issue about exclusion. By holding institutionalized praying in school you are setting sect against sect and advocating one spiritual system over another. Kids can pray whenever they want. It's when the SCHOOL sets aside time and presides over the praying that they blur the lines between church, state, and a parent's right to define spiritual advocacy and to set example. My kid's in school. Plese teach him to read. I'LL read him the Bible.

 

[lavender]

 

[ranajja]

Yeah, but...

As an adult, I hear what you are saying, DCL. We all have the right to choose, all beliefs should be encouraged, yada yada yada.

But...if a kid wrote this, then the kid's perception is that all beliefs are encouraged, except his.

And I'm afraid that's what is happening. It appears that all beliefs, all ways of life are ok, sometimes the more far out the better, except when it comes to Christianity.

I'm not saying that's how it is, I'm just saying that's apparently what's coming across to our kids.

 

[Angel]

Out of the mouths of babes.

http://razzberry.chickclick.com/message.asp?topic=2667355&replies=105



(I'm like, addicted to reading these kids's posts!)

 

[cymbidia]

I agree with DCL and lavender.

Having taught for years in northern CA, in one of the last bastions of free-thinking, almost excessively and self-consciously tolerant-of-all-viewpoints ex-hippies in the United States, i can appreciate the tortured lengths to which some go to assure inclusion for all in our public schools, regardless of gender, ethnic identity, or religious background.

Living now (less than a year left, by all the gods!) in the stronghold of American White Supremacists, in the wilds of the northern ID-WA border area, i can appreciate the lengths and ferocity with which some hold their right to pray as they wish and where they wish and when they wish.

I fear there's a big clash coming.
We've lost the sane middle masses in this country.

Gods i hope i'm back in CA when it comes. These people up here scare the shit out of me. They're *all* armed and think it a God-given right to shoot their guns whenever they please and at whoever gets in their way. Let 'em pray, for christsake. They do it anyway, up here, around the flagpole before school begins.

 

[Gilly Bean]

I don't really keep up with news, but since when has the Pledge been omitted from schools? As far as I know, it is still done in all the schools up here.

Gilly Bean, who spent the better part of 2 years with no TV, and hates to read anything but the comics in the news.

 

[shadowsource]

Amen -

If people want to pray, let 'em do it in their heads. It's called thinking, even... meditating If they want to commandeer public time and attention, let them gather somewhere together. on their own. But don't let anyone force anyone to think their way. How would Christians like it if some school district were majority Muslim, which will happen somewhere, eventually? Peer pressure and reliigion mix horribly well, which is just why the prayer freaks want to get their claws on schoolchildren. It won't happen. It's just another issue to rile up Christians and raise money for Quixotic campaigns. You wanna see the antiwar poem I wrote in junior high? If I publish it, will you cut the Pentagon budget? Christ!

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I knew a kid in school whose parents told him to never say the Pledge, not just because of the word "God" (which was introduced in the 50s, and has been dropped by many school districts), but because they didn't like the idea of the school requiring an oath of national allegiance from their son. I feel the same way. My kid is an American and I teach him pride in his country. I do not want my school system insiting that he PROVE his loyalty every morning. Who says his loyalty is in question? A flag in the corner and a course in civics is plenty. Dispense with the forced oath of allegiance to the Fatherland, please.(I quit saying the Pledge somewhere around 7th grade, ONLY to demonstrate that I COULD.)

By the way, the kid above is a crybaby who is missing the point. God isn't "outlawed" you dumb cluck...A version of a God-Head isn't being sanctioned by the State, that's what's going on. You can speak prayers aloud goosey-lucy, but you can't "assemble" a prayer event, much the same way you can't "assemble" a knitting class in the middle of biology.

*screaming now*

I HATE WHEN PEOPLE PURPOSELY DON'T GET THE POINT OF LEGISLATION AND SUBSTITUTE AGENDA FOR ARGUMENT! AHHHHHHHHHH!

*better*

Anyone want to tell me now that Creationism is a Science?

 

[miles]

I think we should have forced prayer in school. The American way or the highway. Enough of this.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

And after the Lord's Prayer, perhaps a raid on a local Hopi Village. Manifest Destiny in action and all that. Load those muskets, kids...Field trip!

 

[lavender]

 

[Never]

cymbidia:
"I fear there's a big clash coming.
We've lost the sane middle masses in this country."

No we haven't, the sane middle mass is in Oregon dealing with the neo-babble hippies to the south and the Christian Supremacists to the north with wonderfully good graces.
And why is flagpole prayer so shocking? Hmm, maybe you need to be a bit more tolerant?

While I'm at it I've seen people pray in school on a regular basis (every lunch time, doncha know?) and to all sorts of deities. High Schoolers seem to have more freedom in what they can do, say and wear than the rest of the country.

 

[Angel]

And after the Lord's Prayer, perhaps a raid on a local Hopi Village. Manifest Destiny in action and all that. Load those muskets, kids...Field trip!

And after that lets kill the atheists and burn the witches.


Honestly Miles. Have you been tokin' the happy pipe today? Can I have some?

 

[Never]

DCL:
"Dispense with the forced oath of allegiance to the Fatherland, please."
I believe that's already been done in many high schools, I can't remember saying the Pledge after elementary school.

"Anyone want to tell me now that Creationism is a Science?"
No, but I'll tell you Atheism is a Faith if it'll make you feel better.
*duck and cover*

 

[FlamingoBlue]

Prayer has no place in our schools!!!!

End of story. If you want to pray, do it at home or in a place of worship. Unless, of course, you are in a religious school or in a country where religion comes before individual liberties.

(Is wishing for something the same as prayer? I mean, if you wished for a good grade is that the same as a prayer)??


blue

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Weeelllll...

"Colinization" was going on for 100 years before the revolution, and was more about finance and imperialism than Pilgrims seeking religious freedom. The proponents of school prayer are right about one thing, the Founding Fathers never intended that God be removed from government, only that the government not sanction or prefer one God over another. But GOD as a concept was never to be fully torn away from the mechanics of government. We have a firm reliance on "Providence" and get our inallienable rights from a "Creator" etc. So I have no problem with "In God We Trust" printed on our money, or with schools allowing children to pray during study hall or lunch or whenever they're not supposed to be writing the mulitplication tables.

But organzied prayer in school WILL have to take on certian exclusionary aspects. Will rugs be passed out? Will children be given permission to rock back and forth? Can insence be lit? (Or ganga?) No? Oh. I see! They're only going to be allowed to pray like Christians, quietly, with hands folded!

Nope. You can't do it. You can't institutionalize prayer in school becasue no matter how you do it you will excluding a group, and, in turn, disenfranchising them. It's not the school's job to set up an American caste system. There's church. There's school. I don't see the problem.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

DCL:
"Anyone want to tell me now that Creationism is a Science?"
No, but I'll tell you Atheism is a Faith if it'll make you feel better.
*duck and cover*

LOL You'd better.

 

[miles]

I don't support prayer - I demand FORCED prayer. In God we trust, Goddammit. Everyone has to have a religion, and if they don't, we'll give 'em one.

Friggin Liberals.

 

[lavender]

But Dixon...

 

[willywanker]

I started this, guess I should at least post my own thoughtss

I've stated on other threads that I am a deeply religious person, my posting to an erotic BB not withstanding. That said, I really don't have a real problem with organized prayer not being allowed. As stated by other, there will be a time and a school where prayer would involve rugs and bowing toward Mecca sometime soon. Its not the outward signs of prayer that make it effective anyway, it is the private meditation and conversation with God.

***************************************************
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong
***************************************************

I know I don't have the answers, but we have ourselves on a very slippery slope when there are no moral objections to others lifestyles and behaviors. Tolerence is a very good thing, a biblical teaching lots of Bible thumpers choose to ignore, giving us all a bad name at times. But I believe that a case could be made for at least pointing out what future problems could be encountered if you should make this "choice". Should ever lifestyle be put in front of our children as acceptable options? I wasn't ready at 17-18 years of age to make those decisions and I don't believe the kids of today are either. I thought I was Superman, that only happens to other people, it won't happen to me.

Then it comes down to who draws the lines and since what is right for me and my kids may not be right for you and yours, no one draws any lines. The schools here have put in place a very strict dress code, lots of schools going back to uniforms so they can regain control in one area. Kids are suing their parents for their attempts to control their behavior, AND THEY ARE WINNING!!!! Then suddenly, one day they are no longer underage, they are adults, subject to the laws of the land and no one has ever thought them to live within the lines.

Yes, it is a parents responsiblitly but it was a lot easier when everyone was using the same rules.

 

[miles]

lavender

Wet my bed, baby.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Re: But Dixon...

However, a large portion of the population came to the New World due to religious persecution.

Yes, but they weren't coming to The United States of America, which is the point I was trying to make. The govenments they formed and accepted during French, English, Spanish, Dutch colinization were nothing like the govenment created during the Philadelphia Convention after the Revolutionary War, and you can't say that everything a group of people believed in Virginia in 1673 should automatically be incorporated into a new country's charter 100 years later. "The Pilgrims ate corn with one hand and damn it so should all Americans!" That's silly.


The U.S. governemnt indeed recognized the tradition of North American religious tolerance, but also kept God in the Machine, so to speak. We're agreeing on everything, really.