A new dimension of non-con - sexual assault of an RPG avatar

[MrPixel]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-67865327

There's got to be a seed of a story in there.

 

[madelinemasoch]

What the fuck????

 

[ElectricBlue]

It looks like it might not be "just fiction" by the time this technology is done.

Maybe people should start taking a bit more responsibility for what they create.

EB waits for the chorus of denial, "But, but, but... it wasn't me, it was only my drawing, how dare it get a life of its own?"

"Gee, mate, you drew it, you wrote it, whatever. Looks like you might be held responsible, after all."

Where's the line, I wonder? It'll be lawyers and money who determine that, it sure as hell won't be the artists, the creators.

Stand by...

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-67865327

There's got to be a seed of a story in there.

Wait! That's STILL a thing?
I'm 100% certain a story like that was already going around in 2021, but then everyone laughed in the woman's face, telling her to just... take off the VR-Goggles.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I expect the VR aspect increases the impact, but people have been doing similar shit in MMOs for a long time - using sit/dance/etc. emotes for teabagging fallen enemies was around at least 15 years ago.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Wait! That's STILL a thing?
I'm 100% certain a story like that was already going around in 2021, but then everyone laughed in the woman's face, telling her to just... take off the VR-Goggles.

One of the cases mentioned in that article is from 2022, maybe the one you remembered?

I doubt we'll ever get details of the new case, but the DM mentioned that it happened in a virtual room with a lot of people and that the victim was under 16. That's a pretty vulnerable age for peer pressure. I could see it playing out something like this:

- Girl hangs out with (so-called) friends online, using an avatar she's chosen to look like herself
- Dudes start simulating sex with her
- She complains but gets told by "friends" to lighten up, it's not real, just people clowning around
- Bystanders take video of the scene and later share it around at school.

Hey presto, animated "sex tape" of a 15-year-old. Not her real body (and probably clothed), but if it's a virtual avatar that she's picked to represent her, and that she was driving at the time, I can see that being pretty upsetting. Kids aren't always good at navigating these situations or setting boundaries in the heat of the moment, especially when it's a novel scenario that parents couldn't have anticipated.

FWIW, VR equipment isn't necessarily just goggles these days. It can include haptic gears for just about anywhere on the body, which allows for people to feel physical contact with virtual objects but also makes it possible for harassers to grope somebody and deliver a physical sensation where they're touching, if the victim happens to be wearing that gear.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

One of the cases mentioned in that article is from 2022, maybe the one you remembered?

I doubt we'll ever get details of the new case, but the DM mentioned that it happened in a virtual room with a lot of people and that the victim was under 16. That's a pretty vulnerable age for peer pressure. I could see it playing out something like this:

- Girl hangs out with (so-called) friends online, using an avatar she's chosen to look like herself
- Dudes start simulating sex with her
- She complains but gets told by "friends" to lighten up, it's not real, just people clowning around
- Bystanders take video of the scene and later share it around at school.

Hey presto, animated "sex tape" of a 15-year-old. Not her real body (and probably clothed), but if it's a virtual avatar that she's picked to represent her, and that she was driving at the time, I can see that being pretty upsetting. Kids aren't always good at navigating these situations or setting boundaries in the heat of the moment, especially when it's a novel scenario that parents couldn't have anticipated.

FWIW, VR equipment isn't necessarily just goggles these days. It can include haptic gears for just about anywhere on the body, which allows for people to feel physical contact with virtual objects but also makes it possible for harassers to grope somebody and deliver a physical sensation where they're touching, if the victim happens to be wearing that gear.

I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you... I thought about getting one of those omnidirectional treadmills, so I won't run into any walls while playing. The thing cost about fifteen hundred dollars at the time, so I rather ran into some more walls. I can't even imagine what a full haptic-feedback body suit would cost, if it would allow anyone to actually feel the groping. And... I can't imagine anyone using it outside of playing porn games...

 

[Priscilla_June]

So I had read an article on this, the headline is misleading. The police are going after online solicitation of a minor like any other online sexual engagement between adults and minors related to exposing minors to sexual content. No different (as far as the supposed charges are concerned) than a chatroom or email.

 

[Devinter]

So I had read an article on this, the headline is misleading. The police are going after online solicitation of a minor like any other online sexual engagement between adults and minors related to exposing minors to sexual content. No different (as far as the supposed charges are concerned) than a chatroom or email.

This is incredibly important to note.

Also, perhaps others have a different opinion, but I find this bit troublesome:

" According to an unnamed senior officer familiar with the matter who spoke to the paper the victim, under 16 at the time, suffered psychological trauma "similar to that of someone who has been physically raped". "

Whilst I do believe that someone can experiences awful things online, it's hard for me to put it in the same - or even a similar - category as a physical crime; not because it cannot be harrowing to a damaging degree, but because you can simply take the headset off and/or leave the game with a simple click of a button at any time you want. Not to mention block and ignore a specific user harassing you almost as easily. It's a bit like comparing real-life bullying to being trolled in an online videogame. Neither is pleasant but surely they don't go into the same category of severity? I'm certainly not blaming the victims of these things, I just think it's important to separate the two. In these virtual spaces online, you truly hold the power to remove anyone you dislike from being able to interact with you. The moment a person feels uncomfortable, they ought to consider exercising that power.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you... I thought about getting one of those omnidirectional treadmills, so I won't run into any walls while playing. The thing cost about fifteen hundred dollars at the time, so I rather ran into some more walls. I can't even imagine what a full haptic-feedback body suit would cost, if it would allow anyone to actually feel the groping.

From a site I was just looking at, about $300-500 for a vest (which is what was involved in the groping incident I read about), and maybe about $1000 more for gloves, boots, visor, and arms. I expect there are cheaper and dearer products out there but I haven't hunted for them.

And... I can't imagine anyone using it outside of playing porn games...

Not my hobby, but I expect a lot of the demand would be in action games. Back when I played laser tag many years ago, our packs had a haptic unit that would buzz when we got hit. Virtual weapons that trigger haptics in your gloves when you fire them, boots when you kick something, racing games that give feedback for the vibration you'd feel when driving, that kind of thing.

 

[ChloeTzang]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-67865327

There's got to be a seed of a story in there.

There's been quite a few sci-fi stories along these lines over the years, we're just now at the point where the sci-fi is starting to become the reality.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

 

[SimonDoom]

It will be interesting to see how the law evolves to handle this. As Priscilla Jane says, it's significant that in this case the victim is a minor. We already have laws against lewd conduct toward minors, and I assume this would qualify. Is it a form of sexual assault? That's tougher. If Person A transmits lewd visual content or written content to Person B without B's consent, that wouldn't ordinarily be considered assault. The immersive nature of the VR experience may change things by making the encounters more traumatic. One thing is for certain: we will see more and more complaints of behavior like this.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Seems like a bit of a tempest in a tea kettle.
As Devinter pointed out, you are one button push from separating yourself from anyone you don't want to be around.

As for the haptic stuff, the article mentions that Meta's software already prevents anyone you don't know from getting within a few feet of you. It doesn't seem that difficult to set up any haptic unit so it can only be triggered by someone on a trusted/verified list of some sort.

Perhaps they could better spend their resources solving actual rapes in the real world. Something they seem to be having a problem with as of late.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...op-out-of-investigations-in-england-and-wales

 

[Comshaw]

I agree that this tech is advancing so fast, there needs to be some laws around it and this sort of behavior, but I don't see where virtual rape in any way can be equated with the real thing. If that's the case are we also going to start charging players with war crimes done in VR combat? It's the same concept. This mindset is one close to my heart. 15 years ago the Veterans Administration and the government in general decided they would not differentiate between Vietnam War veterans and Vietnam Era veterans. When asked about it my representative said that because everyone in the military at the time "could have gone to war" that all veterans were the same. Yeah, like sitting in a beer garden in Germany flirting with the frauleins was the same as getting fucking rockets dropped on you. But I digress. The point I'm trying to make is that rape and virtual rape ARE NOT THE SAME and as such should not be treated the same.

The girl could have left the VR world with a flick of her wrist. Once the VR visual aid is off it's a matter of shutting down the rest of the system with a few button clicks. She had the opportunity to leave. She didn't. Why? Am I blaming her for the incident? Absolutely not. I am pointing out there are things she could have done and it would have been attempted instead of completed.

I am also not downplaying the harm it can do to some. Like all things people react differently to such situations. I know women that have been raped and while being scarred by it, they have healed. I also know women that, after decades can still not come to grips with what happened. However, it takes a very fragile psyche to allow such things as VR rape to get to them like the real thing would.

There are way, way too many questions unanswered to form a valid opinion on this. Most 15 YO girls aren't going to be confident enough to wear an avatar that resembles them. 99 out of 100 times they are going to go for their ideal of what they want to look like. In that light, did the perp even know she was 15? Was she so submerged in the VR experience she couldn't differentiate VR from reality? Was the character that did the VR rape even sure she was a female? Keep in mind that an avatar isn't the person, so a male can easily be a female character.

That's why I don't put much stock into articles like this. They report a bare minimum of facts and stir the crap out of their readers, when in reality the true story can be much different.

Damn but I've gotten verbose in the new year.


'nuff said.

Comshaw