A master seeking advice

[MasterEden]

Alright, I'm not as comfortable as I should be about this, but here goes. I have had two slaves in my lifetime, and both of them were completely into it, and thus had no trouble submitting. My latest gf, however, while an admitted submissive, expressed concerns that I could not quell and ended our 24/7 relationship. We are still dating three months later, and she still gets a thrill from submitting herself to me. I am sure I love her, and would not want to push her into anything she might not want in the end. She is obviously submissive, and I personally feel she'd be happy in a 24/7, if she could relax and allow herself to do so. My question is, what do you think?

Btw, we have discussed going back into the relationsip, and she has timidly declined each and every time. I feel that if I pressed a little harder she would give in. But, as I said before, I don't want to push her into it until I'm sure she would be able to do it without giving her mental scars. Please help.

 

[RJMasters]

Alright, I'm not as comfortable as I should be about this, but here goes. I have had two slaves in my lifetime, and both of them were completely into it, and thus had no trouble submitting. My latest gf, however, while an admitted submissive, expressed concerns that I could not quell and ended our 24/7 relationship. We are still dating three months later, and she still gets a thrill from submitting herself to me. I am sure I love her, and would not want to push her into anything she might not want in the end. She is obviously submissive, and I personally feel she'd be happy in a 24/7, if she could relax and allow herself to do so. My question is, what do you think?

Btw, we have discussed going back into the relationsip, and she has timidly declined each and every time. I feel that if I pressed a little harder she would give in. But, as I said before, I don't want to push her into it until I'm sure she would be able to do it without giving her mental scars. Please help.

This is not one of those push them into it kinda of deals...at least from my persepctive.

Its onething to be in a relationship and after some trust has built up over time to nudge the limits she might have on certain things. But pushing her into making a commitment to the relationship...nah.

If you have to do this, then your probably gonna regret it later. Better to find out why she is not 100% willing and commmunicate and work through that. Seems she has stated that she has concerns, and that you could not quell them, therefore she is willing to consent up to a point where she feels safe. My suggestions is look at her concerns more carefully and then look at yourself to see what's up.

Forcing her into a relationship she is not ready to commit to...big mistake IMO

 

[Daddyslilpet]

This is not one of those push them into it kinda of deals...at least from my persepctive.

Its onething to be in a relationship and after some trust has built up over time to nudge the limits she might have on certain things. But pushing her into making a commitment to the relationship...nah.

If you have to do this, then your probably gonna regret it later. Better to find out why she is not 100% willing and commmunicate and work through that. Seems she has stated that she has concerns, and that you could not quell them, therefore she is willing to consent up to a point where she feels safe. My suggestions is look at her concerns more carefully and then look at yourself to see what's up.

Forcing her into a relationship she is not ready to commit to...big mistake IMO

Very well said!

No does still mean no afterall. You should really try getting her to talk to you openly about her concerns so that the two of you can work on those together.

Good luck to you both.

 

[Ebonyfire]

She is obviously submissive, and I personally feel she'd be happy in a 24/7, if she could relax and allow herself to do so. My question is, what do you think?

I think that no means no. It is her call, and you should respect her wishes. Anything less than that is abusive. You say you personally think she'd be happy in a 24/7. It sounds like you are wishful thinking. Are you actually thinking of what is best for her or what is best for you?

Eb

 

[JMohegan]

I personally feel she'd be happy in a 24/7, if she could relax and allow herself to do so....

Btw, we have discussed going back into the relationsip, and she has timidly declined each and every time. I feel that if I pressed a little harder she would give in.

This line of reasoning got me laid all through college.

The Horny Guy in my head never paid attention to those soft-spoken "Stop... oh dear.... I really shouldn't be doing this" protestations. He focused instead on the breathing and the nipples and the moisture in the pink.

Of course, my Horny Guy still had to deal with my inner Nice Guy, who really knew how to disrupt things with a moral debate that frankly has no useful place in a passionate evening.

Horny & Nice reached a compromise which made things a lot more pleasant for me overall. As soon as a girl would start in with the "I'm not sure I'm ready" stuff, I would move my mouth close to her ear and whisper the following.

"That didn't sound very convincing. I think you looooove what I'm doing to your body. Of course, I'll stop if you want me to.... but you're gonna have to say, 'Get off me, you bastard'. Then I'll know you really mean it."

This worked exceedingly well. For years, the most I ever heard after that was, "Get o..ahhh... mmmm..."

Nice Guy was placated, and I got laid on a regular basis. Because the fact of the matter is that no doesn't always mean no... or at least not enough of a no to keep you from getting what you want.

So one option for you, Eden, might be to come up with a similar line and then forge on ahead.

Of course, getting laid isn't exactly the same thing as transferring power on a full-time basis. Right?

One question I have for you is - what makes you so sure that she'd be "happy in a 24/7"? Surely the clues here are far more complex than heavy breathing, erect nipples, etc.

 

[Shankara20]

"That didn't sound very convincing. I think you looooove what I'm doing to your body. Of course, I'll stop if you want me to.... but you're gonna have to say, 'Get off me, you bastard'. Then I'll know you really mean it."

This worked exceedingly well. For years, the most I ever heard after that was, "Get o..ahhh... mmmm..."

Nice Guy was placated, and I got laid on a regular basis. Because the fact of the matter is that no doesn't always mean no... or at least not enough of a no to keep you from getting what you want.

No ALWAYS means no. Any action taken after any sort of "no" can be prosecuted as rape. That is a fact of sex assault law.

It is physically possible for a 14 year old girl being forcibly raped by her father to display breathing, nipple and moisture responses consistent with arousal. Those indicators do not mean she has given consent, no more than a when a man being strangled to death gets an erection and ejaculates.

I do not want to come off harsh, nor accusatory, but there is a whole body of law dedicated to male sex assault that is biased, for good reason, toward female protection.

Anything less then hearing a clear "yes I want to have a sexual experience right now with you" is the first step toward potentially very severe legal consequences. And more importantly a show of disrespect.

One of the consequences is that females most stop with coy actions and reactions and give men clear answers to clear questions of consent. Men must choose to respect the answer as given.

I'll do what I can to clarify any misunderstand I may have communicated here.

On other threads we discuss "why aren't male subs respected?", or "why are most Doms jerks" These questions are not about bad male subs or bad Doms. They are about why, on first contact, are men in general met with distain. Not taking "no" as "no" is one very compelling reason.

End of my rant....

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Because the fact of the matter is that no doesn't always mean no... or at least not enough of a no to keep you from getting what you want.

Exactly where does this fall under consentual in SSC?

 

[babiesmiles]

No ALWAYS means no. Any action taken after any sort of "no" can be prosecuted as rape. That is a fact of sex assault law.

It is physically possible for a 14 year old girl being forcibly raped by her father to display breathing, nipple and moisture responses consistent with arousal. Those indicators do not mean she has given consent, no more than a when a man being strangled to death gets an erection and ejaculates.

I do not want to come off harsh, nor accusatory, but there is a whole body of law dedicated to male sex assault that is biased, for good reason, toward female protection.

Anything less then hearing a clear "yes I want to have a sexual experience right now with you" is the first step toward potentially very severe legal consequences. And more importantly a show of disrespect.

One of the consequences is that females most stop with coy actions and reactions and give men clear answers to clear questions of consent. Men must choose to respect the answer as given.

I'll do what I can to clarify any misunderstand I may have communicated here.

On other threads we discuss "why aren't male subs respected?", or "why are most Doms jerks" These questions are not about bad male subs or bad Doms. They are about why, on first contact, are men in general met with distain. Not taking "no" as "no" is one very compelling reason.

End of my rant....

My inner being , my nature , my culture , my professional attitude applaud your post . Bravo

 

[JMohegan]

Exactly where does this fall under consentual in SSC?

If you want to put this in BDSM terms, you could say that I gave her a safeword. Because, in essence, this is what I did.

Eventually, I did meet a woman who said, "Get off me, you bastard." She didn't have to yell or struggle or anything else. Calmly, softly, in almost a whisper, she uttered those five words. And I stopped.

Anything less then hearing a clear "yes I want to have a sexual experience right now with you" is the first step toward potentially very severe legal consequences. And more importantly a show of disrespect.

I have no idea if the safeword concept (see above) gets you off the hook legally. But your second sentence here really encompasses the point of my post to the OP.

Of course this is disrespectful behavior. I was an 18, 19, 20 year old arrogrant frat boy prick. My buddies and I used to refer to sex as "driveby fucking". This was an exaggeration, but not by much.

The entire point of my post was to help the OP see that the thought process reflected in the opening post is closer to what one expects from a guy seeking a one-night stand, than from a man who seeks a meaningful 24/7 relationship with a woman he actually loves.

 

[the captians wench]

If you want to put this in BDSM terms, you could say that I gave her a safeword. Because, in essence, this is what I did.

Eventually, I did meet a woman who said, "Get off me, you bastard." She didn't have to yell or struggle or anything else. Calmly, softly, in almost a whisper, she uttered those five words. And I stopped.

I have no idea if the safeword concept (see above) gets you off the hook legally. But your second sentence here really encompasses the point of my post to the OP.

Of course this is disrespectful behavior. I was an 18, 19, 20 year old arrogrant frat boy prick. My buddies and I used to refer to sex as "driveby fucking". This was an exaggeration, but not by much.

The entire point of my post was to help the OP see that the thought process reflected in the opening post is closer to what one expects from a guy seeking a one-night stand, than from a man who seeks a meaningful 24/7 relationship with a woman he actually loves.

If it helps any, that's what I got from your post.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

If you want to put this in BDSM terms, you could say that I gave her a safeword. Because, in essence, this is what I did.

The opening post put this thread in BDSM terms.

 

[Shankara20]

If you want to put this in BDSM terms, you could say that I gave her a safeword. Because, in essence, this is what I did.

Eventually, I did meet a woman who said, "Get off me, you bastard." She didn't have to yell or struggle or anything else. Calmly, softly, in almost a whisper, she uttered those five words. And I stopped.

I have no idea if the safeword concept (see above) gets you off the hook legally. But your second sentence here really encompasses the point of my post to the OP.

Of course this is disrespectful behavior. I was an 18, 19, 20 year old arrogrant frat boy prick. My buddies and I used to refer to sex as "driveby fucking". This was an exaggeration, but not by much.

The entire point of my post was to help the OP see that the thought process reflected in the opening post is closer to what one expects from a guy seeking a one-night stand, than from a man who seeks a meaningful 24/7 relationship with a woman he actually loves.

I did not read the post I responder to in BDSM terms with the issue of consent worked out by both parties in advance, that is my error. I took my RL work into that post and reacted that way. That is twice now I have done that this week. I thing a need a vacation from RL. Thank you for your gracious clarification.

*note to self, more sleep + less coffee + read full thread = less time pulling my head out of my bum*

 

[JMohegan]

I did not read the post I responder to in BDSM terms with the issue of consent worked out by both parties in advance, that is my error. I took my RL work into that post and reacted that way. That is twice now I have done that this week. I thing a need a vacation from RL. Thank you for your gracious clarification.

*note to self, more sleep + less coffee + read full thread = less time pulling my head out of my bum*

Shankara,

You have no reason to consider yourself as pulling your head out of your bum here. You wrote a great post, which I appreciated very much because your reaction & elaboration really helped me make my point. In addition, you gave me an opportunity to clarify something that was obviously not written as clearly as I had hoped it would be.

 

[Marquis]

This line of reasoning got me laid all through college.

The Horny Guy in my head never paid attention to those soft-spoken "Stop... oh dear.... I really shouldn't be doing this" protestations. He focused instead on the breathing and the nipples and the moisture in the pink.

Of course, my Horny Guy still had to deal with my inner Nice Guy, who really knew how to disrupt things with a moral debate that frankly has no useful place in a passionate evening.

Horny & Nice reached a compromise which made things a lot more pleasant for me overall. As soon as a girl would start in with the "I'm not sure I'm ready" stuff, I would move my mouth close to her ear and whisper the following.

"That didn't sound very convincing. I think you looooove what I'm doing to your body. Of course, I'll stop if you want me to.... but you're gonna have to say, 'Get off me, you bastard'. Then I'll know you really mean it."

This worked exceedingly well. For years, the most I ever heard after that was, "Get o..ahhh... mmmm..."

Nice Guy was placated, and I got laid on a regular basis. Because the fact of the matter is that no doesn't always mean no... or at least not enough of a no to keep you from getting what you want.

This is solid game.

Much respect.

 

[MasterEden]

I think that no means no. It is her call, and you should respect her wishes. Anything less than that is abusive. You say you personally think she'd be happy in a 24/7. It sounds like you are wishful thinking. Are you actually thinking of what is best for her or what is best for you?

Eb

I'm rather insulted that you think I didn't ask myself that ten thousand times a minute since she ended it. I made sure of it, in every way I know how (I won't go into it now), long before ever even thinking about posting here. I love her, and if I thought she really wouldn't be happy about a 24/7 relationship, I would drop my master ways in a nanosecond for her. Trust me, I want this to be for life. I really want to marry her, and have kids with her, so don't simply expect that I'm some over hormoned asshole. I really and truely believe this is the only way both of us can be happy, but I'm afraid that I'm wrong. I don't want to lose her over this...

 

[MasterEden]

This line of reasoning got me laid all through college.

The Horny Guy in my head never paid attention to those soft-spoken "Stop... oh dear.... I really shouldn't be doing this" protestations. He focused instead on the breathing and the nipples and the moisture in the pink.

Of course, my Horny Guy still had to deal with my inner Nice Guy, who really knew how to disrupt things with a moral debate that frankly has no useful place in a passionate evening.

Horny & Nice reached a compromise which made things a lot more pleasant for me overall. As soon as a girl would start in with the "I'm not sure I'm ready" stuff, I would move my mouth close to her ear and whisper the following.

"That didn't sound very convincing. I think you looooove what I'm doing to your body. Of course, I'll stop if you want me to.... but you're gonna have to say, 'Get off me, you bastard'. Then I'll know you really mean it."

This worked exceedingly well. For years, the most I ever heard after that was, "Get o..ahhh... mmmm..."

Nice Guy was placated, and I got laid on a regular basis. Because the fact of the matter is that no doesn't always mean no... or at least not enough of a no to keep you from getting what you want.

So one option for you, Eden, might be to come up with a similar line and then forge on ahead.

Of course, getting laid isn't exactly the same thing as transferring power on a full-time basis. Right?

One question I have for you is - what makes you so sure that she'd be "happy in a 24/7"? Surely the clues here are far more complex than heavy breathing, erect nipples, etc.

The clues are from growing up together and knowing each other like we know ourselves. And no always means no. I am sure of that and would never just keep going, even after the tiniest no there is. She has to Give herself to me for me to be her master. It has to be a conscious choice, and I would never let her make it in the heat of sex. Thoughts are too warped during sex. Thanks for the advice though, sorry if I sounded harsh.

 

[Marquis]

I'm rather insulted that you think I didn't ask myself that ten thousand times a minute since she ended it. I made sure of it, in every way I know how (I won't go into it now), long before ever even thinking about posting here. I love her, and if I thought she really wouldn't be happy about a 24/7 relationship, I would drop my master ways in a nanosecond for her. Trust me, I want this to be for life. I really want to marry her, and have kids with her, so don't simply expect that I'm some over hormoned asshole. I really and truely believe this is the only way both of us can be happy, but I'm afraid that I'm wrong. I don't want to lose her over this...

Ever hear of the Normans?

They were married for 25 years.

I don't think the fact that you love her or that you're committed to this has anything to do with it.

I have to say dude, I think your situation is fucked. I'm stating this based on my own intuition and experience, which I have a lot of confidence in. If you'd like me to go more into it, I will consider it, based on your reaction.

 

[RJMasters]

I'm rather insulted that you think I didn't ask myself that ten thousand times a minute since she ended it. I made sure of it, in every way I know how (I won't go into it now), long before ever even thinking about posting here. I love her, and if I thought she really wouldn't be happy about a 24/7 relationship, I would drop my master ways in a nanosecond for her. Trust me, I want this to be for life. I really want to marry her, and have kids with her, so don't simply expect that I'm some over hormoned asshole. I really and truely believe this is the only way both of us can be happy, but I'm afraid that I'm wrong. I don't want to lose her over this...

You know, when I read Eb's reply to you, I really don't see it as being a bad post at all. A bit direct, but that oneof the things that many appreciate her for. If you feel insulted, then perhaps it is because you are acting defensively...and I certainly wouldn't throw stone in the communication department considering your first post.

People here are giving you clear and sound advice based upon what you posted. You two were once in a 24/7 and "she" broke that off because there were concerns that she did not feel comforatable with. You original post suggested or asked for advice about pushing against this resistance. What you got was people telling you that it is not a good idea based off the common sense that when two people are entering a "S/m relationship", both better be sure they want it 100%. She has expressed that she doesn't at this point in time.

Now you come on here and say...you are willing to give up who you are or change because you love her and want to marry her and have a family. I also see this as a bad move because though she may make you happy now as you set yourself aside inorder to be together, eventualy you will not be happy living as someone who you are not. Unless of course you are really not a Dom/Master to begin with, in which case this may work.

So your options here are very limited as far as I am concerned...you can

a) Continue the part time S/m relationship you currently have and work together on her concerns until such time they are resolved and you two can then move forward.
b) Attempt to force the issue and risk losing her imediately, and face certain consequences down the road for using this type of force at this point in time(it will come back to haunt you).
c) Go into a self-denile mode and over time come to regret your decision.
d) Break it off now realizing there are just too many incompatability issues between you and end things on good terms to keep a friendship.

If I was in your position, I would opt for A. I would sit her down and ask her questions about her concerns and try to understand them. Only then can you be sure if you two have a chance to work them out.

But its my guess...if your gonna feel insulted when people offer an opinion or advice(especially when it is good advice), then perhaps that is one of the concerns your submissive/slave might see in you.

Think about it stud.

 

[JMohegan]

The clues are from growing up together and knowing each other like we know ourselves. And no always means no. I am sure of that and would never just keep going, even after the tiniest no there is. She has to Give herself to me for me to be her master. It has to be a conscious choice, and I would never let her make it in the heat of sex. Thoughts are too warped during sex. Thanks for the advice though, sorry if I sounded harsh.

I don't read you as harsh in this post. I read you as backpedaling.

Let's try this again. From post #1:

My question is, what do you think?

What exactly are you asking about here? What advice are you seeking?

What do we think about what?

 

[cati]

My latest gf, however, while an admitted submissive, expressed concerns that I could not quell and ended our 24/7 relationship.

With all due respect Master Eden without our knowing what these concerns were I'm not sure we can be of much help. I will ask one question of you...did you want your present gf as a slave or to live with you 24/7 as your sub?

 

[Ebonyfire]

I'm rather insulted that you think I didn't ask myself that ten thousand times a minute since she ended it..

You can be insulted, but I do not know you so simmer down buddy.

 

[Marquis]

He's not coming back.

Guys like that will only listen to what they want to hear.

 

[O'Mac]

No ALWAYS means no. Any action taken after any sort of "no" can be prosecuted as rape. That is a fact of sex assault law.

It is physically possible for a 14 year old girl being forcibly raped by her father to display breathing, nipple and moisture responses consistent with arousal. Those indicators do not mean she has given consent, no more than a when a man being strangled to death gets an erection and ejaculates.

I do not want to come off harsh, nor accusatory, but there is a whole body of law dedicated to male sex assault that is biased, for good reason, toward female protection.

Anything less then hearing a clear "yes I want to have a sexual experience right now with you" is the first step toward potentially very severe legal consequences. And more importantly a show of disrespect.

One of the consequences is that females most stop with coy actions and reactions and give men clear answers to clear questions of consent. Men must choose to respect the answer as given.

I'll do what I can to clarify any misunderstand I may have communicated here.

On other threads we discuss "why aren't male subs respected?", or "why are most Doms jerks" These questions are not about bad male subs or bad Doms. They are about why, on first contact, are men in general met with distain. Not taking "no" as "no" is one very compelling reason.

End of my rant....

Excellent post. No-one could have said it better.

 

[FurryFury]

I'm rather insulted that you think I didn't ask myself that ten thousand times a minute since she ended it. I made sure of it, in every way I know how (I won't go into it now), long before ever even thinking about posting here. I love her, and if I thought she really wouldn't be happy about a 24/7 relationship, I would drop my master ways in a nanosecond for her. Trust me, I want this to be for life. I really want to marry her, and have kids with her, so don't simply expect that I'm some over hormoned asshole. I really and truely believe this is the only way both of us can be happy, but I'm afraid that I'm wrong. I don't want to lose her over this...

This statement makes little to no sense to me. It conflicts with itself and previous statements by you.

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

and if I thought she really wouldn't be happy about a 24/7 relationship, I would drop my master ways in a nanosecond for her. Trust me, I want this to be for life. I really want to marry her, and have kids with her, so don't simply expect that I'm some over hormoned asshole. I really and truely believe this is the only way both of us can be happy, but I'm afraid that I'm wrong. I don't want to lose her over this...

For me, here lies your possible answer to her reluctance. I am not into JM's idea of forcing the issue unless it is stated in a way you consider firm enough to be taken seriously...fact is some women just can't do that even if pushed due to many factors, none of them relating to really wanting what follows....what I see in this response from you though is insecurity in your desires and choices which is possibly what she is picking up on. If you are unsure of whether you are right, if you are willing to forgo 24/7 and/or D/s just to keep her, for me you would not have what it took to trust you enough to be my 24/7 Dominant, especially long term. I would also be asking what happened to the other 2 slaves and possibly see this coupled with your insecurity as evidence this sort of relationship with you would be a bad idea. Sorry if it seems harsh, but unless the one I am contemplating is sure of what he wants and can stand up and say it, I don't feel he is ready for a 24/7 relationship.

Catalina