A little perspective pleaase

Jigs

Experienced
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Mar 28, 2001
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Take it from an old soldier children. The Sky is not falling.

I am old enough to actually Remember Pearl Harbor. I am old enough to have actually served briefly both in Korea and in Viet Nam (tho I did not arrive in Korea until the shooting was over and my presence in Nam could hardly have been noticed--S. Vietnam was bleeding, but it was not yet a fashionable address--there were less than 300 USA Military there at the time).

I read with some concern the long recent thread about being afraid.

From the vantage point of history and reality, can I make a plea for a little prospective please? As times of great danger go, as a measure of the loss of property and lives, this is but a hickup.

(1) 65 years ago A. Hitler was in control of a Germany armed with an awsome miliary machine--by far the best in the world at the time. By contrast Ben Ladin is a bandit hiding out in some god forsaken deasert with a handfull of men armed only with AK-47s and a few SAMs and shoulder fired AA missles. He is not Hitler. He is Pancho Villa.

(2) 62 years ago, Hitler was the master of all continental Europe. England stood alone, with only her Navy, a handfull of spifires and hurricane fighter planes, the Channel, and the ringing prose of W. Churchill to defend her. Her cities were on fire, not from one randome attack but from consentrated bombing night after night.

(3) We lost some 6,000 people in the highjack attacks, a terrible frightful loss, but a long way from being catostrophic or decisive. By the spring of 1954, the USSR had sufferd 6 MILLION dead, and another 6 MILLION had died in Hitler's death camps.

(4) We have lost two great and beauiful buildings. That is terrible and heartbreaking. It is to be remembered tho, by the end of WWII entire german cities were great piles of rubble. In one night our B-29s burned 19 square miles of Tokyo to the ground and incinerated something in excess of 100,000 Japanese. Surely you have seen pictures of Hiroshima after the A-bomb. How many of you are diving German and Japanese made cars today?

(5) We had about 50,000 men killed in Korea, and about the same body count in Nam--in total about 20 times the lives lost at the World Trade Center. 50,000 is also roughly the average number of people killed on our highways each year. The interstate and the road you take to work are a 1000 or perhaps 10,000 times more dangerous to your life than a terrorist (not to mention cigarets, substamce abuse, and the burgers at MacDonalds).

None of this is to say that our complex technological society isn't hoplessly vulnerable to terrorist attack. Obviously these islamic fanatics can do unspeakably cowardly things to hurt us badly and have. Nor should they be take so unbelievably lightly as we have in the past. Their very weaknesses in numbers and means make the bastards very difficult to attack and destroy.

But My Children--compared to the crushing of Poland, the blitzkrieg across Fance, the battles of Britian, Stalingrad and on the beaches of Normandy, the defeats at Pearl Harbor and Bataan, the fight for survial on the Pusan perimiter, at the Chosen reseviour, at Hue, and at Khe San, Ben Ladin is a pimple on the ass of histrory. In the scale of opponets he is a lot closer to Saddam Hussain than to A Hitler and Ho Chi Minh.

Quit being afraid My Children, there is nothing to fear but fear itself (FDR). For God's sake don't listen to Hanoi Jane Fonda this time. Do what your fathers and Grandfathers did. Go kick some ass.
 
Thank you

I think that for me, I don't remember military conflict or terrorism to this degree on home soil. I do remember Vietnam which isn't a great conflict to seek comfort from. I was a kid and new many vets, family members included.

Thank you, again. I think some of us do come to lit and look for perspective.
 
Hey Jigs, your perspective is as cool as are your stories.
:cool:
 
Nicely said.

I was thinking about this last night -- how little bin Laden worries me. I mean, he actually sort of reminds me of a Literotica Troll. I can just picture him hiding in cave typing things like "I'm winning! You all dance for me! I will destroy you all!" Blah blah. I'm surprised his name isn't Osama Unregistered.

Crap like "We call for a jihad!" just sounds like so much neo-political snot coming from someone who's never written a constitution, built a bridge, designed a health care system, created a stock market, dredged a harbor, raised a levy, designed a dewey decimal system, wired a street light, dug a subway, or any of the nation building that a government must do to become a legitimate part of the world community.
 
Dixon Carter Lee said:
... how little bin Laden worries me. I mean, he actually sort of reminds me of a Literotica Troll. I can just picture him hiding in cave typing things like "I'm winning! You all dance for me! I will destroy you all!" Blah blah. I'm surprised his name isn't Osama Unregistered.


ROTFLMAO!!

Beautiful just beautiful...

:D
 
The last person to invade American sovereign soil was Pancho Villa. (Not "attack" -- invade.) Just wanted to point that out.
 
Rusher said:
Jigs:

A lot of the things you said are true. But let's build a complete picture. Neither Poncho Villa or Ho Chi Minh (I can't remember the name of the leader of N. Korea) posed a serious threat to U.S. soil, correct? Each of them was defending soil, not reaching out to attack.
Actually, if I recall my history correctly, Pancho Villa did raid into the US, which is why Black Jack Pershing hunted him.

Osama Bin Laden may be a bandit/terrorist, but he is a bandit/terrorist with millions (the son of a billionaire), a worldwide organization and fanatical followers who are quite willing to commit suicide in the name of his brand of religion.

At the same time, his true potential for havoc and mayhem doesn't compare to past wars as Jigs pointed out. It is just the fact that he brought that mayhem right to our soil that has caused all the fear.

I am not dismissing the loss, but it is good to view it in perspective. Now let's go bomb the fuck out of the bastard!
 
Rusher

Iwould expect a Texan to know his history better. Pancho Villa did raid across the Border into the US. That was the reason President Wilson sent General Pershing chase him in Mexico (with much the same speaches about 'terrorism' that we are hearing now).

And yes Germany did land trained terrorists by submarine from Florida to New Jersey, armed with money, explosives and assigned targets to attack. They were about a dozen of them as I remember. All of them spoke english without an accent and two or three of whom were either naturalized American citizens or had lived here for years before the war. The FBI caught every one of them within 6 weeks and we ultimately hung most if not all of them. Is the FBI now that much less efficient without old cross dressing J. Edgar H.?

As far as Korea & Viet Nam go, whether valid or invalid, the stated reason for my little unifomed ass being in each place was that it was better to fight the Communists there than on the Santa Monica freeway. As far as attacks on US soil is concerned, Pearl Harbor. Guam, Wake Island, and Manilla were all US territory on December 7, 1941 (as was Fort Sumpter in 1861, and tho ultimately defeated, the Confederacy was a lot more dangerous to the continued exsistense of the United States than anthing out there today).

Are we mare vulerable to terror raids now than in 1914? Cerainly. We are much more complex and dependent upon an easily disrupted technology than we once were, but then as now, there is no way for Ben Ladin to strike what a military man would call a decisive blow. It is also true that every thing is relative to the total national wealth. We have alot more out there available for a terrorist to attack today than we did 50 or a 100 years ago, but we also will have a lot more left after he has done his worst.

You had better be damn glad this guy is no Hitler with the German Wermark behind him. Ben Ladin may be just as evil but he is off in the deserts of Afganastan. In 1941 Hitler's tanks were on the English Channel in the west, and at the very gates of Moscow in the east--winning by roughly four touchdowns.

Let me give you something a Son of The Alamo can relate to: a rattlesnake in your back yard is dangerous. Sombody needs to cut its head off, but the odds if a careful man getting bit are small indeed.

Of course if you prefer, there is alway Hanoi Jane Fonda Hayden Turner (or whoever she is now)
------------------------

Cowards die many times,
the valiant taste of death but once.
Of all the wonders I have yet heard,
it seems most strange that men should fear,
Seeing that death, an necessary end,
will come when it will come
 
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