A computer question, help please !

[tendril]

Right. Have a nice new computer running Windows XP Home Edition. Online via dial-up but decided to go with broadband in December. The ISP sends a guy out with the new modem and he gets it all going....well kinda. Seems there are a few 'issues' but he finally logs online ! Woo Hoo!

Here's the thing - in the morning when the computer is turned on it takes the about 30 attempts over a period of say 45 minutes to log online. I get a series of error messages, 680, 619 and now and then 774. Once its on its fine, never drops off, and if I disconnect the modem after a couple of hours and then reconnect, it will do so on the first attempt. It's almost liike the modem needs a certain 'warmup' time (stop laughing !!!)

Any ideas ?

 

[lost5pints]

HEY, you might want to try calling the company that your signing online with.. sounds like youve got some crappy connection numbers.... good luck

 

[tendril]

HEY, you might want to try calling the company that your signing online with.. sounds like youve got some crappy connection numbers.... good luck

Oh I'm doing that for sure.

The installer said it wasn't really HIS problem, the ISP says it's not really their problem, so right now I'm talking with the modem manufacturer - Alcatel.

I kinda let it ride over Xmas, but now I'm back using this machine it's pissing me off.

 

[WildRose40DDD]

Modem

It sounds as if when you turn the compute on in the morning it is not connecting with the modem. Turn the modem off or unplug it for a minute (60 sec) while the computer is off. Then turn the modem on and then turn the computer on. This will reinitialize them. It should work fine then.

 

[JoseIsWild]

You didn't say if you had DSL or Cable modem. I have DSL and I will tell you that the modem is suppose to be on 24 hours a day. When its powered off, it actually triggers an alarm on the DSLAM (the DSL server in the phone company's central office), which I'm sure the CO techs totally ignore now.

Now if you have one of those internal modems, then of course you can't do that unless you leave your computer on. If this is the case, I highly recommend you request to get an external one.

 

[tendril]

Its a DSL and the installer or ISP have never said anything about leaving it on all day.

I will have it fixed or replaced, that really isn't the issue, it's WHY it will only connect after so many attempts or after it has been on for some time during the day.

The help desk people at both Alcatel and the ISP think thats funny, nonsense in fact. I mean who has ever heard of your computer needing to run for awhile before accessing the Net?

 

[WildRose40DDD]

Modem

How does it connect to your computer? Is it internal or external?

 

[Weird Harold]

I mean who has ever heard of your computer needing to run for awhile before accessing the Net?

Almost any electronics techinician could tell you that "Cold Start" and "Hot Fail" problems have been around for as long as electronics have.

I suspect that your problem isn't "cold start" but a synchronization isssue -- the computer and modem need to be turned on in a specific order and get synchronized before the modem conects to the ISP and gets in synch with their modem.

I suspect that the modem needs to be turned on first. As I understand it, Win XP does a hardware check as it boots and won't initialize the modem if it doesn't see it during start-up.

 

[woody54]

Oh I'm doing that for sure.

The installer said it wasn't really HIS problem, the ISP says it's not really their problem, so right now I'm talking with the modem manufacturer - Alcatel.

I kinda let it ride over Xmas, but now I'm back using this machine it's pissing me off.

When you think logically about it, your contract for service is with your ISP. They are the ones who get the money, it should be their responsbility to fix it. If their sub contractors foul up, it should not be your responsibility to fix it, it is them denying responsibility.
Tell them to take their piece of shit modem away and give you one that works before they get any more money.

They sold you a service they are not providing and for the money , you should get a good DSL service.

Set the dogs on them.

 

[sirmed]

Dsl

If it is Dsl it will take a few min to mate up with the phone company and make its way to the Isp..
if it is cable... HUM>>>>

Look up the DNS numbers and make sure they are there also...

good luck..

 

[ReadyOne]

Here's the thing - in the morning when the computer is turned on it takes the about 30 attempts over a period of say 45 minutes to log online. I get a series of error messages, 680, 619 and now and then 774.

Where are you seeing these error numbers? I'd like to look them up...

Also, as others have ask, are you DSL? Who is your ISP? Who is your phone company (if DSL) or cable company? What special software do you use to connect, for example did there need to be software installed for the modem?

Do you nned to use a name/password to logon on? If so, how do you enter it.

Your problem could be anywhere, including the ISP's gateway not authenticating you coupled with delays between retries.

Just need some more info, and we can probably point the finger at the right person for you...

 

[Mary Hall]

I got broadband too, but the little box sometimes fucks up, i might need a new one

 

[Bobmi357]

Almost any electronics techinician could tell you that "Cold Start" and "Hot Fail" problems have been around for as long as electronics have.

I beg to differ. Any decent electronics technician would immediately respond with "this sounds like a cold solder joint".

A cold solder joint is a badly soldered connection which only makes electrical contact once its had enough time to warm up and expand slightly. Her modem may have a real hardware problem rather than a software initialization issue.

Heating can have a lot of impact on electronics. Its one of the reasons why good repair places still carry hair dryers to blast components and solder connections to test them.

My suggestion would be to power up the modem alone for say 30-60 minutes, then power up the computer and see if she can connect. If she can connect with no problems, then I'd say return the modem as being defective.

 

[Mary Hall]

My brother fixes electronic equipment, he`s handy to have around when one of many things go wrong in my home

 

[Noor]

Most people I know with DSL or cable modems do leave their router or modem on 24/7. They can shut down their computer without shutting down the connection.

Locally, you don't pay for time connected with dsl or cable, do you have to?

Noor

 

[Weird Harold]

I beg to differ. Any decent electronics technician would immediately respond with "this sounds like a cold solder joint".

I'm not sure what you consider a 'decent electronics technician' but as a graduate of the USAF Aerospace Soldering course -- a pre-requisite for working on high-altitude capable aircraft and/or nuclear certified equipment -- I would never ascribe a "cold start" problem to a cold solder joint because I've never seen a cold solder joint that reacts the way you describe.

 

[tendril]

Re: Re: A computer question, help please !

Where are you seeing these error numbers? I'd like to look them up...

Also, as others have ask, are you DSL? Who is your ISP? Who is your phone company (if DSL) or cable company? What special software do you use to connect, for example did there need to be software installed for the modem?

Do you nned to use a name/password to logon on? If so, how do you enter it.

Your problem could be anywhere, including the ISP's gateway not authenticating you coupled with delays between retries.

ust need some more info, and we can probably point the finger at the right person for you...

The error messages appear after each failed attempt to login. The main two are 'no dial tone' and 'port closed'. It always kicks off with the no dial tone error first. But hey, this morning was one of those very rare days where I am online after maybe only 6 attempts.

The software was installed by the ISP contractor, here in NZ I am with Xtra, part of the Telecom network.

I have it set so anyone can log in - the password is saved.

I am currently waiting for yet ANOTHER phone call from Alcatel.

 

[tendril]

Most people I know with DSL or cable modems do leave their router or modem on 24/7. They can shut down their computer without shutting down the connection.

Locally, you don't pay for time connected with dsl or cable, do you have to?

Noor

Hey Noor

No, I don't pay for time online but for MB used.

 

[tendril]

Almost any electronics techinician could tell you that "Cold Start" and "Hot Fail" problems have been around for as long as electronics have.

I suspect that your problem isn't "cold start" but a synchronization isssue -- the computer and modem need to be turned on in a specific order and get synchronized before the modem conects to the ISP and gets in synch with their modem.

I suspect that the modem needs to be turned on first. As I understand it, Win XP does a hardware check as it boots and won't initialize the modem if it doesn't see it during start-up.

Well that all sounds pretty damned technical to me!

One additional point that MAY throw some more light on the subject.....there is a HP Fax/Scanner/Printer hooked into the same line before all the wires converge into one to access the Telecom line.

 

[Weird Harold]

there is a HP Fax/Scanner/Printer hooked into the same line before all the wires converge into one to access the Telecom line.

Do the problems go away when the Fax/Scanner/Printer is disconnected? If you can go directly to the telecom line from the modem witha single cable, try that configuration to see if the Fax is causing the problem.

The main two are 'no dial tone' and 'port closed'.

The 'no dial tone' error doesn't sound like something you should get from a DSL connection. Are you sure that it's not trying to use your old dial-up connection instead of the DSL connection?

Go to your internet options from the control panel or through the tools menu in IE and make sure that your DSL connection is the default connection and delete the old dial-up connection if you're not saving it for emergency access.

'Port Closed" sounds like a network error -- like Win XP isn't finding the modem on the first try.

It sounds like your best solution is to leave the modem on when you turn the computer off. That way you don't have to worry about whether there's a dial-tone or not because the line is always open.

 

[ReadyOne]

1. Leave the DSL moden on all the time, 24/7. It's designed to be that way, and line speed will actually improve after the modem has been on and connected (DSL light lit) for a couple of days.

2. Look to see that the old dial-up connection isn't active. I think Wierd Harold has it pegged.

3. XP requires no software for DSL. It handles DSL connections somewhat similar to dial-up in that there is a connection object and it needs to be opened before you can talk over DSL.

There are two things here. FIrst is physical connectivity through the LAN card to the DSL Modem to the ISP. This is aways on. You keep the LAN connection enabled all the time and the modem powered up all the time.

The second is logical, as in loging on. There is a protocal PPoE used to pass a user-id and password to the ISP, just the same as when you use a dial-up line. In return, the ISP loans you an IP address for the life of the connection and tells you where to send traffic and look up addressed.

Normally pricing structures are flat fee. Some will count bytes transferred, but avoid them if you can. I've yet to hear of someone charging for connect time with DSL (but there's always somebody who has to try and get greedy) because there is no switching or shared components between you and the ISP.

Connecting PPoE doesn't require them to add telephone numbers, and they don't switch any physical connections. So, except for the traffic you send through their backbone gateway, there is no cost difference to them if you are logged on or not.

So...

a) Throw out/uninstall any software from the ISP that has anything to do with making or creating PPoE ports, connections, logon, security, anything. XP will run DSL out of the box.

This software is required for Win2K, Win98, WinNt, but not for WinXP. There may have been a CD in you install kit, but there should have been big warning at the start of the instal instructions to not use the CD if you are XP. The alternate install instructions for XP systems go something like this:

b) Open Start / Settings / Network Connections. "Use the "New Connection Wizard" to create a broad band connection. Select "Connect to the Internet" then "Set up my connection manually" then "Connect to a broadband connection that requires user-id and password (PPoE)". Finsh up with the names you and the ISP have chosen. They should give you directions about what need to be filled in.

c) Make it the default connection (right click on the connection icon).

d) To begin talking, double click the newly created connection icon. It will give you a chance to enter a password, etc. very much like the old dial-up thingy did. After you connect, open IE and visit lit for while (just to prive it works!)

When you can always get a connection using the icon without haveing to re-enter your password (check the "save password" box), open the properties page for the connection and uncheck the "prompt for name" box.

e) Now put a short cut to the connection into your startup folder.

d) Open the "Internet Options" dialog (from IE Tools or from the Control Panel). On the Connections tab, select "Alway dial my default connection".

Now you should log on to the internet as soon as you logon (or boot if you have autolog setup) XP. Any time OE or IE or someone needs a connection, and you're not logged in, then they will automatically try to log you in.

This is all just like you managed your dial-up connect. The only difference is that you don't actually dial a phone line (the DSL modem is always on/connected) so you should never get messages about ports or dial-tones.

Hope this helps... (And there are a couple of other ways if your ISP provides a dedicated "always on" connection with fixed IP address. Ask and we shall answer.)

 

[woody54]

Dsl

Did you get that lot from Ready One.
I wasnt sure that actually improves things if you cant start when you want to.

 

[Mary Hall]

If your equipment doesn`t work, you could try some new stuff, if that doesn`t work then tell your ISP because i`ve learnt they sometimes screw up and have faults