2004 Survivor Literotica: Planning & Plotting

[Boxlicker101]

Re: My views

Yes, but for some (like me) translation is very easy. I'm bilingual, and for me, translating a story requires a little more than an edit.



I agree with not using the program. That's a little crazy. My only problem with using immunities in a Non-english category is that participants should be using their immunities for subject matter primarily and not because they are unable to do it for a reason such as knowing or not knowing another language.

That doesn't sound right. If and when I get an immunity, I will use it in a category where it would be difficult for me to fill it otherwise such as Non-English. If I get another one, it will go toward audible stories or somethng else where I need certain equipment or expertise., I would never use one in a category where I just write, like incest or group sex or something like that.

On that subject, are the immunities going to be the same this year as they were last year? This is Tues. AM and there are about 36 hours until they post, if that is to be the case.

 

[damppanties]

Okay. I wasn't clear. Let me try once more.

Participants should not be forced to use immunities for things they CAN NOT do.

I can write a non-english story. I know Svenska can. I am assuming Crimson Maiden cannot. So why should she have to pay for it?

CM is starting with a handicap. Whereas Svenska and I are at an advantage. It is not fair according to me.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: My views

On that subject, are the immunities going to be the same this year as they were last year? This is Tues. AM and there are about 36 hours until they post, if that is to be the case.

I was wondering about that myself. I definitely want every possible opportunity for an immunity (since I am going to need at least one). Are we doing them this week? I've already picked my number.

I will definitely have to have one for Non-English if we are not allowed to get someone to translate our original story into another language.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Participants should not be forced to use immunities for things they CAN NOT do.

What about audio and illustrated stories?

Some people CAN NOT do them because they do not have the equipment. They've been told in the past to use their immunities. I think this is perfectly reasonable.

I fail to see why can not should be differentiated specially from will not. Why should there be a difference between using an immunity because you can't and because you won't? I don't see won't as having a special sort of circumstance, that immunities should be reserved only for the categories you won't write in.

Not to be argumentative, of course, I am genuinely curious.


Please, CM, debate! The rules are based on your input, too! The feedback is important.

 

[Guest]

CM debate? That was DP's point.

I see where you are coming from on the audio thing. However, even if people don't have the equiment on their computer, do they have a stereo of any kind? Most of those have the ability to record on cassettes and I have read that you can tape yourself and mail it (of course, I know that will take awhile but the contest does last a whole year.)

My take on this whole situation (and this includes both Non-English and audio categories) is this: the contest is about writing stories and poems, not translating them or taping them. So, either those categories should be removed from the contest or the author should be able to use a friend to record or translate the author's original story. As long as the story is still the original of the author and has not been entered in any other category, then it should count.

Illustrated brings up the same situation with the exception of not using someone else's copyrighted material since not all people have digital cameras, scanners, or are blessed with the talent to draw.

Having said all of that, I am more than happy to use an immunity for the Non-English category (provided I get one, surely as many weeks as there are in a year, I will.) Even if the rules were changed, I doubt that I would be able to do a story in the Non-English category, since I will not use a translating program (I have heard they are bad and I would not do that to the readers) and I do not know anyone who speaks another language. At this point, I am bringing this up more for others than for me.

To be honest, I don't think this matter will ever be solved to every one's satisfaction because there are such differing views.


Now, with that out of the way........when do we get to choose our immunity number?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Rules and Regs

Hi, KM
I have to agree with the last posting of CM, not just about the non-English category but about illustrated, audible, and any other method of presenting a story. I believe the idea is to be prolific and versatile but when you add the other categories we are discussing, you require us to own and be able to use a wide variety of equipment that has nothing to do with writing,and to be bi-lingual, which also has nothing to do with writing.

I felt this way before but I didn't want to say anything because it would mean such a drastic change in the rules. Besides that, asyou say, I can use immunities but there is no certainty that anyone will have that many immunities.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I agree with KM here. I can't do Stories With Audio or Poetry With Audio, because I don't have a microphone for recording into the computer. I have to use an Imunity for that. If you can't speak any other language than English - you have to use an Immunity for that.

I think that's fair.

 

[Guest]

Actually, if I remember correctly from reading previous years' rule threads, there is a number than you can call to record your audio stories. I am not sure how that works, but it is an alternative to those who don't have the proper equipment if it is still an available option (and of course, if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.)

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It doesn't cost an arm and a leg, no, but for someone who lives on the other side of the Atlantic ocean, it comes pretty close.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

To play devil's advocate here for a moment, why not eliminate the audo/illustrated/bi-lingual categories completely? If it comes down to people not having the resources (or ability), eliminating them would then level the playing field. While I may not choose to write a mature story, I am not fluent enough in written French to write a story (or translate a story) into that language.

***

As for me, I used immunities in those categories last year and did fine, all things considered. I do sympathize with people who find them "unfair" but I can also understand where those who disagree are coming from.

It would advantageous to some to have the categories elminated, but I don't necessarily think we should. People like Svenska are constantly translating their work into English for our benefit...just because the site is based in the US doesn't mean we should load the dice in favor of those whose ONLY language is English. Give those persons who are bi-lingual extra props for taking the time and trouble to learn another language. Give credit to those who are dedicated enough to get up off their butts and record a story or take a picture, get it on a disk and upload it into a story. This is a contest to see who the most dedicated writer on lit is. I doubt that any change in these categories will change who the winner is.

******

ALSO...I love the idea of having a week to claim immunity...god knows I've forgotten to look until saturday or sunday and lost 2 or 3 immunities because of it.

*****

A FEW SUGGESTIONS

1. What if you story is in the top 10 of a category for more than a month long? Can/should that be the basis for bonus points? This would be a way to reward a quality piece of work.
2. Or perhaps pieces that maintain an "H" for longer than a month?
REASON-A concern that many have voiced over the past 2 years is that there is a potential loss of quality for the sake of quantity...why not do one (or both) of the above as a way to reward "good" writing?

3. What about getting a bonus if you write more than 10 stories in a given category?
REASON--There are categories in which we all shine, and write more prolifically in. I may be able to write one "Mature" story, but I could write 10-20 essays in the course of a year. Chicklet easily could write that many non-consent, and so on. Why not reward us for the categories we shine in?

Just some thoughts...feel free to tear them apart now...

 

[Guest]

It doesn't cost an arm and a leg, no, but for someone who lives on the other side of the Atlantic ocean, it comes pretty close.

Well, like I said, I wasn't sure how it worked, I just knew that I had read it somewhere, so it is an alternative to some.

Like I said in an earlier post, the debate over these categories will probably never be resolved satisfactorily because of the differing views.

Those who don't speak another language or don't have the equipment or talent for the audio and illustrated categories just have to pray they get enough immunities to cover those categories.

 

[InsatiableMe]

Like CrimsonMaiden, I am new to this contest so I personally don't know if the rules "work" or not, but from what I've read on this board they seem to be pretty good. I like the idea of having an "immunity" use to skip a category if won. I hope that feature stays this year.

Will there be a "score sheet" posted soon?

 

[KillerMuffin]

The good news is that Survivors are now appreciated on the main part of the site. That also means that more people are going to get in on the contest. While this is great, it also causes some logistical anti-cheating problems. I have to verify that all points are earned. Those prizes are very attractive, ya know? That's why we can't reward H's with points. When it comes time to tally and verify, I can't go back and figure out who has H's and how long they've had them unless they've got a bajillion votes or so. There may someday be software to do this, but it's really a low priority.

The problem with the phone number for audio submissions is that it only works in some parts of the world. Lauren and Svenska, for example, can't use it.

Personally, I'd like to eliminate Non-English because I can't read the stories. I can't make sure that they aren't just gobbledygook. I understand that Laurel is working on that herself for the site, but no telling what's going to happen. The point of the contest is to put stories into the categories, but they should at least make some sense, right? However, that still puts me in the horns of a dilemma.

I have two choices here.

1) Non-english stories must be penned by the contestant.
or
2) Non-english stories can be a contestant written story translated by someone else.

Neither of them are inherently "fair" because the first cuts out people who aren't bilingual and the second allows an author to submit a story that s/he must obtain copyright from someone else for (this is really iffy on the site rules, by the way). Additionally, I remember several bilingual contestants who were translating works for a bunch of people. The effort is entirely unrewarded.

Of the two, I am more comfortable (based on site rules and copyright law) with the first. However, I do understand that the majority of the participants only know English and this does gives bilingual people an advantage.

I think that this dilemma can be answered by answering a question:

What is the purpose of immunities?

No matter how I look at it, immunities all boil down to two things: can't and won't. Should immunities only be for filling categories that a writer won't fill? Or should immunities also be for filling categories they can't fill as well?


I'm loathe to eliminate any category because some people have an advantage over others in those categories. I think everyone has an advantage over the pack in at least one category. As someone pointed out, Chicklet could write a ton of non-consent stories. DC Roi could pretty much win the contest by his padding of the novels category--were he to enter.

CM: I was responding to one of your previous posts. I think you have very valuable input and I'm not the least bit afraid of debate.

Rules and score sheets soon. I'm not sure when or how just yet, details are being worked out with the powers that be. Until then, however, the non-english thing is still sticky. I may just dump it in Laurel's lap and grovel at her feet for her to make a pronouncement. I can see it now, "Aaah! That's gross! Get off my foot!"

Immunities will not begin until the rules are posted. An immunity thread will be opened up shortly thereafter.

 

[damppanties]

I fail to see why can not should be differentiated specially from will not. Why should there be a difference between using an immunity because you can't and because you won't? I don't see won't as having a special sort of circumstance, that immunities should be reserved only for the categories you won't write in.

Not to be argumentative, of course, I am genuinely curious.

No matter how I look at it, immunities all boil down to two things: can't and won't. Should immunities only be for filling categories that a writer won't fill? Or should immunities also be for filling categories they can't fill as well?

Exactly. My point is that some people would have no can'ts or they will have some way to get around their can't whereas only-english people will not. As CM pointed out, this is all about writing stories and good stories. It is not exactly about knowing two languages or being an artist. The only-English people should also be allowed to use their immunities for will not instead of can not. Why not?

With audio and illustrated, I am again in favour of someone helping out.

Give those persons who are bi-lingual extra props for taking the time and trouble to learn another language. Give credit to those who are dedicated enough to get up off their butts and record a story or take a picture, get it on a disk and upload it into a story. This is a contest to see who the most dedicated writer on lit is. I doubt that any change in these categories will change who the winner is.

deliciously_naughty makes a good point about dedication, but how is your dedication measured by asking you to do things you can't?

The persons who have 'learnt' an extra language have not done so to write in Lit's non-english category. So they are benefiting from something which is not exactly an accomplishment. I might be wrong but I don't think anyone here is going to write in any other language than their mother-tongue if there is no help in the non-english category for translation. So that means you get three points (and subsequent whatever) if you were born in Sweden or in India? It is not exactly an accomplishment.

Then, for some, submitting an audio or an illustrated story is not as simple as getting off their butt and recording or taking a picture. What if you do not have the equipment?


Oh.. and I love DN's suggestion about rewarding someone for more than 10 submissions in a particular category. I'd go crazy trying to write ten stories in any category other than Erotic Couplings, but that's just me.

What about extra points for contest entries? What about extra points for winning a contest?

 

[Boxlicker101]

I have to admit that I am ambivalent about immunities and categories like non-English and audio. I expect to fill all the writing categories, including erotic and non-erotic poetry and novella. I have the proper equipment, I think, to meet the requirement for audio stories. For illustrated, I understand I have to take my own pictures, rather than get photos from someone else. I would never use copyrighted photos but I might use somebody else's snapshots. I understand that the illustrations cannot be nudes. That doesn't seem right. If I am writing about eating a pussy, why can I not show a photo of a pussy?

What about new categories? I mentioned some earlier that I think woud fit and some others have also.

What is the rule about entering stories in contests like the holiday contest, and in this one? I entered a holiday story and after the prizes were announced, I posted it to group sex and scored it as one point. Was that right?

Anyhow, I am looking forward to posting my first stories on my scoring thread.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

deliciously_naughty makes a good point about dedication, but how is your dedication measured by asking you to do things you can't?

The persons who have 'learnt' an extra language have not done so to write in Lit's non-english category. So they are benefiting from something which is not exactly an accomplishment. I might be wrong but I don't think anyone here is going to write in any other language than their mother-tongue if there is no help in the non-english category for translation. So that means you get three points (and subsequent whatever) if you were born in Sweden or in India? It is not exactly an accomplishment.

While it is most certainly true that people did not (at least I would hope) learn another language just to write in the non-english category, my point is that at some point, for some reason, they made the effort to learn another language.

To refute your comment about the 3 extra points for being born in a place other than the US, if those persons were NOT bi-lingual, 3 or so points is all they would EVER have. Those members are at a constant disadvantage becuase they are constantly having to write in a language other than their primary one.

But to go back to my main point...I don't think that the 3 or so points from this category would be enough to win the survivor contest at all.

However, to go to KM's excellent point...how can she tell if a story is gobbly=gook or correctly written in the foreign language? It might be best to completely eliminate it from the contest, especially since all it does is cause pages and pages of arguments, every year.

Then, for some, submitting an audio or an illustrated story is not as simple as getting off their butt and recording or taking a picture. What if you do not have the equipment?

I don't know that the argument about not having the equipment to do an illustrated story holds water anymore. You can take pictures with a regular camera and have them put onto a floppy disc OR cd and then upload them to lit. It's relatively simple and does not require a digital camera, scanner, or any equipment that computers don't already have. But that's just my 2 cents.

As for the audio, it was my understanding that there is a phone number option, or you can mail lit your submission (as someone pointed out, it's not like we don't have a year...just plan to do it earlier?). Now, I am most likely to be lazy and immunity my way out of this category, but it does seem like options have been provided. And while Svenska makes the point that it's outrageously expensive to call the number from a foreign country, I wonder (not that I have experience in this, so please don't blast me) if it wouldn't be much easier to mail a tape?

Oh.. and I love DN's suggestion about rewarding someone for more than 10 submissions in a particular category. I'd go crazy trying to write ten stories in any category other than Erotic Couplings, but that's just me.

Thanks! I really think that this might be a good bonus...it allows us to play to our strengths and rewards quality writing. I would argue that no one would bother to write 10 stories in a category that they don't enjoy and write fairly well in. Whaddya think, KM?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Ooooh, I swore I wouldn't get involved in this debate... I've gotten into so much trouble doing it in the past...


There are many good points here. Yes, those of us who are bi-lingual or even multi-lingual, didn't learn the languages in order to write for Lit, but we did work hard to learn them. Those of you who can record made te effort of buying the necessary equipment. It's not the same thing, but still... It's a matter of what you're capable of doing. I'm capable of speaking more than one language. Some of you are capable of recording your stories.

I can't record, because I don't have a microphone. I HAVE TO use an immunity for that category.
Others can't speak anything but English, because that's all they've ever learned, so they HAVE TO use an immunity for that category.

Could it be more fair?

It wold ofcourse be possible to avoid all the arguing by simply taking away those two categories from the contest all together.

Or, we could ask Laurel to decide, once and for all, and then care that rule in stone.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I wonder *if* Laurel would make a ruling?

 

[KillerMuffin]

Laurel would make a ruling if it were necessary. I don't think it is, though. Not really. We've discussed it a bit.

As you can see by the rules, translations, audio, and illustrated works by another person will be allowed. Certain conditions will apply, however. Like this one:

The translator, audio recorder, and illustrator must submit a notification releasing copyright of the translation, recording, or rendering to the entrant. This may be done however is most convenient and verifiable. If the helper is unwilling to do this, then these stories will be disqualified. The reason is that Literotica publishes all works copyrighted into the submitter's name. If you submit someone else's work, you are claiming copyright to it and this is not strictly legal.


One that I am mulling over at the moment and would like some input on is a dilemma regarding contestants doing the audio, illustration, and translation for other contestants. The last time this was permitted, people wanted to have survivor points awarded for their translation efforts. I have two choices here:
1) Permit contestants to help out other contestants.
2) Permit outside help in these categories only from those who are not participating in the contest.

I'm leaning toward the second one if for no other reason than to keep a stampede of "help me out!" PMs to our bilingual friends.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Sorry...I hadn't seen that the new rules were up

No bonuses for winning contests or more than 10 entries in a given category?

 

[KillerMuffin]

No bonuses for winning contests and I forgot to add the other one.

And the rules weren't up when you posted!



Expect immunities to officially begin next week.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Thanks KM!

Does anyone have a chain story going currently? I'm posting this here since it's one of the categories.

Edited to add 2 questions...

#1...can I translate a story from a previous year and submit it as a non-english story this year or does it have to be a wholly new work which does not appear anywhere else on this site?

#2...same q, only substitute the words audio story for non-english

sorry if I missed any rules pertaining to this...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Does anyone have a chain story going currently? I'm posting this here since it's one of the categories.

I think there is a possibility of one of them almost being about to maybe take off in the AH: link.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Thanks Lauren!

 

[damppanties]

Does anyone have a chain story going currently? I'm posting this here since it's one of the categories.

There's The Worst Chain Story Ever which is here. They are still taking in people.