1st person vs. 3rd person

[freshface]

Okay, that brings up another new writer point: Any advice on the best way to get those questions answered? I'm in the queue in the Circle, but given that I've already posted five stories, it would take until approx. 2576CE to get feedback on all of them. And my thread in the feedback section is getting almost no play.

I thought of asking very specific questions in Feedback, but the problem is that I don't know what questions to ask. I'd just really love to hear what some experienced writers think of my fumblings. It's great that some people are enjoying them, that's very awesome and is of course the point of the exercise, but I badly need to grow as a writer. I'm just not sure how.

Look in the stories section for an active author whose stories demonstrate the ability to answer your questions. Send a nice message asking him/her to look at your writing. Repeat until someone says yes. Consider the reasons behind the comments you get back and distrust any that come with "all" or "never" attached.

 

[driphoney]

True. For a early-development writer, this can aid them, can't it? One of the advantages of 1st person is this limiting of what they can logically perceive, isn't it? I find a lot of 3rd person work has the problem of straying needlessly from the focus simply because the pull of straying off to extraneous verbiage/description/dangling threads is harder to guard against.

Another frequent problem with 3rd person is in keeping straight when you are in omniscent mode and when you are in the perspective of a single character even if in 3rd person and erroneously flipping back and forth between them.

There's 3rd person omniscent (the narrator all-knowing, all revealing) and there's 3rd person specific/limited (the narrator referring to the protagonist in third person but remaining in the protagonist's perspective). It's not, I think, as easy for an early-development writer to understand these 3rd person options exist and to keep them separate (most often starting out in 3rd person limited and flipping unknowingly into and out of 3rd person omniscent) as it is to understand and keep straight the limitations of 1st person.

I think I get tangled up in this. It's so overwhelming, if I think too hard on it, that it can shut me down.

As for the 1st person/3rd argument for newbie writers. While I agree with SR that one has to be careful how one tells others how to write. Some people have a gift and to encourage limitations might shut down potential, creativity or growth. On the other hand, perhaps forcing a beginner writer out of first person into third might just turn a letter writer/911 report-giver into a story writer. It might help the writer learn a little about storytelling.

Just a thought.

 

[SixtyMinuteMan]

Look in the stories section for an active author whose stories demonstrate the ability to answer your questions. Send a nice message asking him/her to look at your writing. Repeat until someone says yes. Consider the reasons behind the comments you get back and distrust any that come with "all" or "never" attached.

Y'think? I don't know, I'd worry about that coming off as stalker-ish. The idea did cross my mind, I mean I'd love to hear what certain authors *coughSR71cough* think of, say, Educating Ken, but I can't help thinking that the response to a PM would generally be an understandable, "Look, if I had time to read your crap and tell you what's wrong with it, I'd have done it in your feedback request thread."

 

[__Lisa__]

I/me/mine. No different from he/him/his, she/her/hers.

I'm not against 3rd person (or even 2nd person when it seems specifically appropriate). Whatever fits that specific circumstance. It's just that most of this "ya gotta do one" backs into that statement. First the decision (usually based on superficially understood personal preference) and then trying to find (usually not distinguishing) reasoning for it.

Sorry, my comment was in reference to having more options when beginning a sentence in third person. You can't begin a sentence with me or mine.

Third person is my preference because it's the one that comes naturally to me. Some writers do first person really well. I hope to be one of them eventually.

 

[driphoney]

Y'think? I don't know, I'd worry about that coming off as stalker-ish. The idea did cross my mind, I mean I'd love to hear what certain authors *coughSR71cough* think of, say, Educating Ken, but I can't help thinking that the response to a PM would generally be an understandable, "Look, if I had time to read your crap and tell you what's wrong with it, I'd have done it in your feedback request thread."

He who has not, asks not. At the risk of sounding like my grandma, what can asking hurt? What's the worst that can happen?

(Says the biggest chicken around here!)

 

[sr71plt]

Y'think?

Rumor has it that it worked for Freshface at least once.

 

[sr71plt]

You can't begin a sentence with me or mine.

"Me hearties, avast, I say. Drinks all around, good lads."

"'Mine eyes have seen the glory' always brings tears to my eyes when that anthem is sung."

(Sorry, just joking around.)

 

[fifty5]

I had to laugh.

I'm writing a new story in third person but have to reread and catch/correct myself from writing in the first person, which most of my stories are.

I think the new story probably has a male feel. Even so, my main issue has been remembering to flesh out the female character's thoughts/feelings.

ETA: FunCouple - I don't think first or third matters. What matters is which "person" does the job for you, which is most effective in turning you two on. Don't worry about the audience here.

Jomar has got what matters here!

My own stories are mostly wank fantasies, developed over a number of wanks, and in that context you won't be surprised that what I've done is mostly in the first person - though that maybe needs the additional information that I want to be involved more than watching others (NB 'more', not that watching can't turn me on).

"Easiest" may not be the best advice, IMHO. What works for you is likely to be what is easiest for you to write - if it turns you on, then you have a chance to turn on your readers too.

Do what cums naturally - the alternative, doing what you've been told to do by "experts" is not likely to be sexy for any reader.

Caveat: I'm not an expert! Just someone who has written a few stories...

 

[Stella_Omega]

The thing about getting advice from experts is that you listen to your gut-- if it likes what you've heard, you try it, if it rumbles disapproval, you know that was the wrong advice for you.

 

[_Lynn_]

Looking back at my first stories, I see they are in first. I'm not sure when or why that changed. It's for sure not my preference to use it.

It's rare that I even read anything that's in first person. They are difficult for me to get into, since "I" can't relate to what "I" did in them.

 

[sr71plt]

The thing about getting advice from experts is that you listen to your gut-- if it likes what you've heard, you try it, if it rumbles disapproval, you know that was the wrong advice for you.

That sounds nice, Stella, but it doesn't hold water all that much. Quite often the right advice for a writer isn't what they realize is the right advice--because they are still as dumb as rock about their writing.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That sounds nice, Stella, but it doesn't hold water all that much. Quite often the right advice for a writer isn't what they realize is the right advice--because they are still as dumb as rock about their writing.

yeah i was thinking about that as I wrote the comment...

but I thought I'd be a nice lady for a minute.

 

[FunCouple02703]

Fortunately, I'm not offended by any of the replies or discussions here. I really appreciate the energy devoted to this thread. Most of you have helped answer my question to some degree or another. Maybe due to lack of confidence, I was affraid my writing would be considered incomprehensible drivel. Now I realize that I shouldn't be overly concerned about the countless critics; but to write what I want, how I want. With the information provided here, and with the help of a good editor, my stories just might be readable.

 

[sr71plt]

Rising from the Internet?

Opps. This was meant as a new thread.

 

[CamLion]

I have a harder time writing third person. I just can not do it. I feel I lose some of the authenticity.

 

[freshface]

Y'think? I don't know, I'd worry about that coming off as stalker-ish. The idea did cross my mind, I mean I'd love to hear what certain authors *coughSR71cough* think of, say, Educating Ken, but I can't help thinking that the response to a PM would generally be an understandable, "Look, if I had time to read your crap and tell you what's wrong with it, I'd have done it in your feedback request thread."

So when I said, "Repeat until someone says yes," what I meant was keep asking different authors until one of them says yes. Asking again after you're told no is when it starts getting creepy.

You should remember that lots of really good authors on Lit have only a vague idea that the forums even exist. As DripHoney said, the worst that can happen is that someone says no, and most of the authors around here are friendly enough to say no nicely.

 

[sr71plt]

Y'think? I don't know, I'd worry about that coming off as stalker-ish. The idea did cross my mind, I mean I'd love to hear what certain authors *coughSR71cough* think of, say, Educating Ken, but I can't help thinking that the response to a PM would generally be an understandable, "Look, if I had time to read your crap and tell you what's wrong with it, I'd have done it in your feedback request thread."

Read it. Just keep writing them like this and you'll be doing fine. There isn't much I could tell you that you don't already do quite well. (Might suggest that identifying the partner as gay in the first paragraph was unnecessary. That's telling. It only takes a couple of paragraphs for that to be shown. Best not to tell wherever "show" is doing its job).

 

[jeninflorida]

What about length of a story on literotica? Also how soon does a story need to get to the heat before readers lose interest?

I always advise new writers to use 3rd
person simply because it's much easier to write well. However, there are stories where 1st person is appropriate. I have used 1st person occasionally and there are a number of writers who have been here a while who use it regularly and effectively.

It all depends on what you are comfortable with, how the POV affects the story and how well you write.

 

[sr71plt]

What about length of a story on literotica? Also how soon does a story need to get to the heat before readers lose interest?

Depends on the reader. there's no single "reader" here you can please even most of the time.

 

[driphoney]

Depends on the reader. there's no single "reader" here you can please even most of the time.

I always thought it depended on the writer!