1965 Bonneville vs 2001 Excursion very interesting at least to me.

[Azwed]

I think this is interesting and is just one more bit of puzzle that i am using to lead up to me Muscle Car Era vs SUV era little research project. A lot of you probably won't care about this at all but if you have any interest in the enviroment, which everyone should have, then this should be an interesting read. There are also bad ass pictures of the 1965 bonne.



Ok on my MINI forum there was an article comparing the excursion to the MINI which was pretty funny. The article is here
http://sptimes.com/2002/12/26/Floridian/SUV_vs_MINI__a_tale_o.shtml

Now i was also looking at this page at the same time.
http://members.aol.com/thebonnevil/bonnevil1.html


Excursion:
Overall length is about 18.9 feet and width is about 6.6 feet.

The 65 has about the same dimensions with a length of a little over 18.5 feet and the length is a little over 6.5 feet.

The Excursion weighs 7,600 some lbs. The bonneville is a good bit lighter at about 4,000 lbs. The bonneville has also run a 10.4 in the quarter and has a top speed of about 185 mph.

Now think about all of this and try to guess what these two cars get in the MPG range?

The bonneville with its huge 465 cubic inch(Thats over 7.7 liters)big block, old school 4 barrel carb, massive 31.X18 inch back tires got 17 mpg on a 500 mile round trip.

The excrusion with all modern fuel injection and Over head cam technology can only muster up 13mpg on the highway. The largest engine offered in the Excursion, that is not a diesel, is only a 6.8 litre V10 and I know that makes much less power then the bad ass 7.7 liter big block. The V10 happens to make 305 hp and 420 lbs-ft of torque.

It is emberassing to see how far back we have gone in time.

I am posting this at a couple of different car forums I go to just because i find it so amusing.

 

[P. B. Walker]

True, but you also couldn't fit a couch and 3 people into the 65 Bonneville. I think you are comparing apple and oranges here.

PBW

 

[modest mouse]

Wouldnt the difference in gas mileage have more to do with the significant additional weight on the Excursion, rather than engine performance?

 

[Lancecastor]

I wonder how the Ford Excursion would compare against a 1973 Ford Colony Park station wagon with the 460 , extra rear seat and towing package?

That might be a closer comparison in terms of intended use....each being a big family wagon with hauling capacity.

And compare the 65 Bonneville to an Infiniti G35 maybe for fun.

 

[freakygirl]

If you guys only knew what all of this car talk does to me..


It's better than looking at porn.. atleast in my opinion

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

That bonneville is a beautiful car. Wide track is right!

It gets better mileage than my little European car too.

 

[Ishmael]

You'd have to compare gross weight to gross weight az. That is the 'work' that is required to move the beast.

At almost twice the GVW the excursions gas mileage doesn't look that bad at all.

Ishmael

 

[Azwed]

True, but you also couldn't fit a couch and 3 people into the 65 Bonneville. I think you are comparing apple and oranges here.

PBW

Did you see the size of the trunk in the bonne? You could probably get a small couch in there.

Wouldnt the difference in gas mileage have more to do with the significant additional weight on the Excursion, rather than engine performance?

That is partialy to blame but so is the massive Coeficient of Drag that the Excursion has. I am not sure what the Bonne's CD is but it has to be less then the Excursion. I can't even find the Excursion's CD published anywhere but I have some other CD's that might help but the Excurstion in perspective.


CD 0.25 Honda Insight: Lowest on the market to my knowledge.
I think the latest 911 is around .26-.27
CD 0.29 Chevy Corvette
CD 0.36 MINI Cooper
CD 0.43 Ford Exploder
CD 0.41 Ford Expedition

The real point of this little exercise was technology. For the past 25 years the overall MPG for new vehicles has steadily increased but this is no longer the case. The average MPG for new vehicles has dropped to a level lower then the early 80's. I have worked on a lot of early 80's cars and except for a few exeptions they suck in every aspect.

The reason for this is that 60% of the new vehicles sold now are trucks either real trucks, SUVs, Minivans or cars like the PT Cruiser that are defined as trucks by the EPA since they have fold down rear seats Trucks get lower MPG for several reasons some of them are things that could be changed by the automakers if they wanted to. Mass is one thing that can generaly not be changed since trucks need to of a certain weight to carry heavy loads.

Coefficient of Drag is one thing that could be changed though. Trucks have traditionaly been shapped very box like but they don't have to be. There function is not going to be impaired any if they are made to be sleeker in the areodynamic sense. This has been done somewhat but not to the extent it could be. Part of this goes back to the tradition of trucks being boxy and part of it goes to philosophy that trucks should look tough so they are built boxy and with unecessary bloat. Look at the front of a new dodge ram to see the unecessary bloat factor.

Those are things that could be changed without reducing the trucks ablity to carry and/or pull heavy loads.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Did you see the size of the trunk in the bonne? You could probably get a small couch in there.

Actually, I just used that as a reference. I can fit a couch in my Explorer. So, I'm sure you could fit 2 couches in an Excursion if you put them in right. Point being, you can fit WAY more in an Excursion than you can in a Bonneville. And that's not even considering the towing capacity of the two vehicles. I just think these two vehicles are not even comparable.

PBW

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Coefficient of Drag is one thing that could be changed though. Trucks have traditionaly been shapped very box like but they don't have to be. There function is not going to be impaired any if they are made to be sleeker in the areodynamic sense. This has been done somewhat but not to the extent it could be. Part of this goes back to the tradition of trucks being boxy and part of it goes to philosophy that trucks should look tough so they are built boxy and with unecessary bloat. Look at the front of a new dodge ram to see the unecessary bloat factor.

Those are things that could be changed without reducing the trucks ablity to carry and/or pull heavy loads.

Minivan's seem to have decent COD. Trucks could look more like they do.

 

[Azwed]

What originaly intersted me in this comparison was the similar length/width dimensions of the two very different vehicles I know the Bonne weighs much less and that will be a factor.

So lets pick something a little smaller in size then.

2002 Chevy Suburban 2wd with the 5.3 L Vortec. I would have liked to use the 6.0 L Vortec but I have not seen any MPG numbers for that motor.


http://www.new-cars.com/2003/chevrolet/chevy-suburban-specs.html

Length and width are just a little less then the bonne and weight is slightly more. The bonne probably weighs around 4000 lbs and the Suburban weighs 4947 acording to this webpage.

Both vehicles are 2wd
Both are Body on Frame style chassis.
Both are solid rear axel and both have reticulating ball steering.

The Suburban has gear ratios between 3.42 and 4.10 avaliable and a .70 overdrive. I dont know which axel ratio was used in the EPA test but it was probably the 3.42 one which would give the sub an advantage over the bonnes 4.10 final drive. Most auto trannies have about the same overdrive gear so the 200R4 probably has a .70-.80 overdrive.

Estimated fuel economy for the Sub is (mpg city/ hwy/ combined) 2WD: 14 / 18 / 16

Thats very close to the same numbers as the bonne. Pretty sad considering the bonne is using, exculding the overdrive tranny, nearly 40 year old technology.

 

[Lost Cause]

The need for speed.....

Far outweighs how much the pump bleeds! Fuck it, ride in the style that you enjoy. Fuck the P.C. vehicle of the millenium, a classic car with real steel and chrome, looks great moving, or sitting still! Of course, you'll get beat up by the enviroinsane types, so please yourself first.

 

[Rubyfruit]

I just want to know how I would have taken my kids, my friends' kids, their sleds, snowboards, backpacks, icechests, coats, gloves, scarves and hats all in a Mini up to the ski resort today.

;-)

I actually saw a Mini on the freeway here recently. It's cute.

My first car was a Honda 600. Anybody remember what those looked like? I totaled it and walked away. Well, with a few dozen stitches on my forehead, but no brain damage. That the doctors could find anyway.

 

[LukkyKnight]

My first car was a Honda 600. Anybody remember what those looked like? I totaled it and walked away. Well, with a few dozen stitches on my forehead, but no brain damage. That the doctors could find anyway.

Were those the ones with the black rubber baby buggy bumpers all around the rear window?

 

[LukkyKnight]

Oh stars and garters, how I want a Jaguar Phantom.

 

[P. B. Walker]

I actually saw a Mini on the freeway here recently. It's cute.

Gawd, that's the last thing a man wants to hear about his car! LOL. Just call him dickless why don't ya? LMAO...

PBW

 

[Azwed]

Minivan's seem to have decent COD. Trucks could look more like they do.

Ah we can do a comparison of those too. Many Minivans and SUV's are based off car platforms/chassis.

The Honda Odessey is based off the Accord platform.
The Toyota Siena is based off the Avalon/Camry platform. The Lexus RX300/Toyota Highlander twins are also based off this platform.

http://www.new-cars.com/2002/honda/honda-odyssey-specifications.html
Honda Odessey MPG
(City/Highway) 18/25

http://www.new-cars.com/2002/honda/honda-accord-sedan-specifications.html
Honda Accord MPG
(City/Highway) 20/28

http://www.new-cars.com/2002/toyota/toyota-sienna-specifications.html
Toyota Sienna MPG
EPA Estimated Fuel Economy 19 / 24 (city / hwy)

http://www.new-cars.com/2002/toyota/toyota-avalon.html
Toyota Avalon MPG
MPG: City/Hwy 21 / 29

http://www.new-cars.com/2002/toyota/toyota-highlander.html
Toyota Highlander MPG
3.0L 2WD 19/23
3.0L 4WD 18/22

Car companies love these type of platform vehicles since they save tons of money on R&D costs. Sharing platforms makes sense and companies have been doing it forever but now it is a little harder to tell which cars share platforms.

Example: Most people don't know that the Ford Escape and the old Ford Contour share the same platform.

 

[Rubyfruit]

Were those the ones with the black rubber baby buggy bumpers all around the rear window?

Not that I recall.

It was the predecessor to the Civic, back when the Civic was actually small.

It had a 400 pound weight maximum, two cylinders and was prone to ending up on the sidewalk while I attended youth gatherings at my friends' houses while their parents were away.

 

[Azwed]

I just want to know how I would have taken my kids, my friends' kids, their sleds, snowboards, backpacks, icechests, coats, gloves, scarves and hats all in a Mini up to the ski resort today.

;-)

How many kids?

I have taken 5 people plus myself in my 89 bonneville on a couple of camping/ski trips with no problems. That car has more trunk space then most Midsized SUVs and you can always throw skis on the roof.

As long as they aren't really big people you are ok.

Obviously if you carry 6 or 7 people around on a regular basis then you need some type of large vehicle(minivan, mediumish SUV or van) but so many people use these vehicles for one or two person commutes that it is really frustrating.

 

[freakygirl]

Fords suck..

 

[Azwed]

Fords suck..

Post 1972 Fords my dear.

First On Recycle/Refuse dump

Fix Or Repair Daily

Fucked Over Rebuilt Dodge

Fools Only Remain Driving (them)

 

[P. B. Walker]

Fords suck..

Hey now.. you take that back!

lol

PBW

 

[freakygirl]

Post 1972 Fords my dear.

First On Recycle/Refuse dump

Fix Or Repair Daily

Fucked Over Rebuilt Dodge

Fools Only Remain Driving (them)

ok.. maybe I like the older Fords..

Hey now.. you take that back!

lol

PBW

Make me

 

[Rubyfruit]

How many kids?

Did you watch The Sound of Music the other night?

Hey, does your Bonneville have heated seats? I just don't know if I can give up my heated seats.

Happy New Year, PB!

 

[RhumbRunner13]

...and I'll bet the Bonne puts out at LEAST five times as much pollutants as the SUV.

Rhumb