12 Days of Christmas rooted in pagan mating rituals

Huckleman2000

It was something I ate.
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Only in Britain

THE SAUCY SECRETS OF NO.1 YULETIDE CAROL

09:30 - 24 December 2005
An author who claims to have found the real meaning behind one of Britain's most famous carols says it isn't about Christmas at all - it's about sex. Writer Ray Wright, a grandfather-ofthree, said The Twelve Days Of Christmas was changed by the Catholic Church tomask its mysterious origins in pagan mating rituals.

Ray, 75, reckons that after the medieval Church failed to ban the carol, it managed to jumble up the numbers to mask the dangerous sexual signals.

He made the fascinating discovery after months of painstaking research combing through dusty archives in libraries across the country. Ray believes the progression of the carol, most famously sung by Bing Crosby, really moves from the lover's gift of a partridge in a pear tree to a symbol of post-orgasmic bliss.

"It's all about being in love with our nature, with the nature of everything, and the whole cycle of nature is sexual, '' he said.

The cycles of the year, the seasons and of life and death are all exhibited in the popular carol, he believes.

According to Ray's research, the number of maids milking, ladies dancing, Lords leaping, pipers piping and drummers drumming have all been mixed up.

Bing Crosby sings of eight maids milking, nine ladies dancing, 10 Lords leaping, 11 pipers piping and 12 drummers drumming.

But Ray says it was originally eight maids, nine drummers, 10 pipers, 11 ladies, and 12 Lords.

To go through Ray's "real" order, he believes the gifts of a partridge, two turtle doves, and three French hens are increasingly extravagant romantic gifts exchanged between lovers.

The four calling birds have been changed from the original wording of Colly birds, a nickname for a Raven, which represents the passion of women and is also a symbol of both life and death.

Ray believes the five gold rings represent sexual union and the conception of the baby is represented by the six geese laying eggs.

He added the seven swimming swans were metaphors for the foetus swimming in its mother's womb.

"In medieval times, people only believed that you became human when you were born, that's why the animal metaphors are used, '' he explained.

"The maids milking is about breastfeeding and the 'drummers drumming' represents the heartbeat of the baby as it grows.''

The pipers are the voices of the gods awakening the young person to a sexual life, which leads to the 11 ladies dancing in an attempt to seduce the male.

"That's the seductive part, '' Ray said. "Then the final stage of the cycle is the 12 Lords leaping, which is the men after they have again enjoyed the act of love-making.''

He said the song was originally intended to have been sung at any time of the year, particularly at the changing of the seasons. Ray is so passionate about trying to return the carol to its original form that he has banned it from being played in the visitor attraction he runs in Gloucestershire.

"I've taken it off the sound system until someone records the original version, '' he said of the Clearwell Caves attraction in the Forest of Dean.

He added the song could also be read as simply a love song or a party game, where 12 people each take a turn to sing in faster and faster rounds.

Ray is still seeking a publisher for his book, provisionally titled The Gifts Of The Sun.
 
I wanna know more about the painstaking research involved.

:cathappy:

Fascinating reading, Huckleman, thanks!
 
sweetsubsarahh said:
I wanna know more about the painstaking research involved.

:cathappy:

Fascinating reading, Huckleman, thanks!

You're welcome!

I never think of where some of these "traditional" things come from, and it's interesting to see that they may come from such primal, if not coarse, origins. I sort of assume they must have made sense at one point in history, like blackbirds baked in a pie. WTF is THAT about???
 
I think this guy is reaching. Singing about a fetus swimming in amniotic fluid? Give me a break!

The four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie probably refers to the British love of game pies in the 18th century, maybe earlier. The Brits made pies out of just about everything, and lark pie was a highly esteemed gourmet treat. I suppose the blackbirds reference was poking fun at that, blackbirds being unsavory little critters. The pie was so badly made that when it was opened they were still alive, kind of the way we talk about steaks being so rare they're strill mooing.
 
I've always thought that there is a lot of pagan in Christian holidays, Easter seeming the most blatant to me.

Easter is always the the Sunday after the first full moon, after the spring equinox.

Holidays based on full moons and the equinox.....How much more pagan could you get?
 
I am not concerned about hidden meanings here. Just tell me how to wrap a partridge in a pear tree.
 
Wildcard Ky said:
I've always thought that there is a lot of pagan in Christian holidays, Easter seeming the most blatant to me.

Easter is always the the Sunday after the first full moon, after the spring equinox.

Holidays based on full moons and the equinox.....How much more pagan could you get?

Wildcard - that's pretty much a fact. The Pagan/Wiccan festival of Ostara is near the same time. Most Christian festivals and traditions were shifted and moved around the calendar in order to try and override previous religions and make it easier for the locals to want to convert.

Although I agree with DrM, this guy seems to be really reaching.

The Earl
 
Okay, let's start asking the important questions:

How come when I say stupid things that don't sound too stupid, no one advertises them to try and make me famous?

Q_C
 
Quiet_Cool said:
Okay, let's start asking the important questions:

How come when I say stupid things that don't sound too stupid, no one advertises them to try and make me famous?

Q_C

It's not what you say it's who you know?

Or who you blow?

Maybe?

Don't mind me, I have a cold.
 
sweetsubsarahh said:
It's not what you say it's who you know?

Or who you blow?

Maybe?

Don't mind me, I have a cold.

If I blow you, will it get me anywhere?

Q_C
 
What strikes me as odd is the repetitiveness of the song. I mean, listen to the lyrics: "on the first day of christmas, my true love gave to me a partridge in a pear tree"... and that line is repeated for every worse.
So, when you come to "on the twelfth day of christmas...", the poor person has received not ONE but TWELVE partirdges, 22 turtle doves, 30 French hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golden rings, 42 geese laying eggs, 42 swimming swans, 40 milking maids, 36 dancing ladies, 30 leaping lords, 22 piping pipers, and 12 drummers going at it.

American christmases must be very crowdy and noisy...
 
Svenskaflicka said:
What strikes me as odd is the repetitiveness of the song. I mean, listen to the lyrics: "on the first day of christmas, my true love gave to me a partridge in a pear tree"... and that line is repeated for every worse.
So, when you come to "on the twelfth day of christmas...", the poor person has received not ONE but TWELVE partirdges, 22 turtle doves, 30 French hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golden rings, 42 geese laying eggs, 42 swimming swans, 40 milking maids, 36 dancing ladies, 30 leaping lords, 22 piping pipers, and 12 drummers going at it.

American christmases must be very crowdy and noisy...
And you've hit the nail on the head- American Christmases are all about wretched excess. :eek:

All the same, the song is English in origin...
 
Svenskaflicka said:
What strikes me as odd is the repetitiveness of the song. I mean, listen to the lyrics: "on the first day of christmas, my true love gave to me a partridge in a pear tree"... and that line is repeated for every worse.
So, when you come to "on the twelfth day of christmas...", the poor person has received not ONE but TWELVE partirdges, 22 turtle doves, 30 French hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golden rings, 42 geese laying eggs, 42 swimming swans, 40 milking maids, 36 dancing ladies, 30 leaping lords, 22 piping pipers, and 12 drummers going at it.

American christmases must be very crowdy and noisy...


Sounds like the makings of a Lit orgy, complete with flying feathers.
 
Wildcard Ky said:
I've always thought that there is a lot of pagan in Christian holidays, Easter seeming the most blatant to me.

Easter is always the the Sunday after the first full moon, after the spring equinox.

Holidays based on full moons and the equinox.....How much more pagan could you get?

There's a lot of paganism in Christianity, but the date of Easter isn't pagan. Christ was crucified over the Jewish Passover, and the Jews use a lunar calendar for determining their holidays, which is why Jewish holidays wander all over the solar year. (The practice caused so much confusion among the eastern European Jews that it became common to celebrate every holiday over 2-3 days, hoping that one of them would be the correct one.) I suppose Easter was originally pegged to Passover and when the Christians decided to separate themselves, they made the date a mix of solar and lunar events.
 
Svenskaflicka said:
What strikes me as odd is the repetitiveness of the song. I mean, listen to the lyrics: "on the first day of christmas, my true love gave to me a partridge in a pear tree"... and that line is repeated for every worse.
So, when you come to "on the twelfth day of christmas...", the poor person has received not ONE but TWELVE partirdges, 22 turtle doves, 30 French hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golden rings, 42 geese laying eggs, 42 swimming swans, 40 milking maids, 36 dancing ladies, 30 leaping lords, 22 piping pipers, and 12 drummers going at it.

American christmases must be very crowdy and noisy...

Yeah. It makes me think that the song was probably more of a drinking game than any pagan ode to pregnancy, the kind of game where you have to sit down and take a drink when you get something wrong. We still play games like this today, or used to when I was in college.
 
Christians often used existing religious traditions and dates in a way of slyly getting people to celebrate thier traditions and take holidays on their holy days. Like changing Christmas from it's original date to the 25th of December. I believe it was a Roman holiday, and Christians used it to slowly get people to celebrate their holy day instead. And the easter bunny of course, which is a pagan fertility symbol.
 
human_male said:
Christians often used existing religious traditions and dates in a way of slyly getting people to celebrate thier traditions and take holidays on their holy days. Like changing Christmas from it's original date to the 25th of December. I believe it was a Roman holiday, and Christians used it to slowly get people to celebrate their holy day instead. And the easter bunny of course, which is a pagan fertility symbol.

Christianity had a fine marketing strategy! It was easy to switch to the new holidays (same as the old), and no circumcision required! Between that, and the centralized political/religious heirarchy brought about by monotheism, it was an unbeatable combination.
 
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