1 in 5 young adults has personality disorder - yahoo.news

[AllardChardon]

Jack Luis,

Yes, I placed a high class parlor house in the middle of Salt Lake City in 1857 with Brigham Young as Territorial Governor with his 47 wives and 56 children residing with him in his two official residences. The heroine is me as a French Catholic Madam born in New Orleans "from a long line of illegitimate lovers". She brings 12 gorgeous and talented trollops with her and the majority of the book is within the walls of Hobart House, her residence. The hero is a shy undertaker desperately in need of the touch of a woman, who is led on such a disneyland of sexual adventures, it is really quite a riot, once told. I hope it catches Kensington's chief editor's eye. Why not start at the top, I always say?

Mrs. Hobart, my Madam, says, "Sex first and, maybe, romance later is my motto." I love her. She is me.

Thanks for the interest.

Allard

 

[Safe_Bet]

As a teenager, she had been pregnant and given birth three times, in about five years, was a horrible addict and shouldn't have been birthing any child. I understood why her parents did this, but I was shocked to learn this truth. She is not in much better shape now and, of the two children she did keep, her daughter is a militant lesbian and her son is a Jehoval Witness.

Could you please explain to me WTF her daugher being a lesbian has to do with this subject? You sure make it sound like it was a dire consequence of her actions.

 

[AllardChardon]

I didn't really want to get into this aspect, but the mother seriously physically abused her children (with cigarettes on the genitalia) and they both ended up traumatized, of course, but took different paths to find peace. Both ends of the spectrum, it seems. The mother is still a mess. The son knocked on my door the other day and offered me the latest Watchtower. I took it and thanked him.

 

[JackLuis]

Could you please explain to me WTF her daugher being a lesbian has to do with this subject? You sure make it sound like it was a dire consequence of her actions.

Ut Oh Allard, now the Lesbian police are after you!

You had better make Safe Bet happy about you "Les Bashing" comments.

So the story sounds good, Mormons in a brothel?

Sounds like she was headed to Reno and got sidetracked. Maybe she moves it to Carson City when the silver strike kits in Navada? For a sequal?

 

[Safe_Bet]

I didn't really want to get into this aspect, but the mother seriously physically abused her children (with cigarettes on the genitalia) and they both ended up traumatized, of course, but took different paths to find peace. Both ends of the spectrum, it seems. The mother is still a mess. The son knocked on my door the other day and offered me the latest Watchtower. I took it and thanked him.

I hate you burst your bubble here, but being gay or lesbian is NOT "caused" by being traumatized as a child and believe me it is not a "path to find peace". The only people who believe that being queer is a choice are fundies or people who are trying to justify their own prejudices.

 

[AllardChardon]

Not according to the over 100 gay men I interviewed in the 80s at a gay disco in North Hollywood, anyway. I would say roughly half the men were gay by genetic design and half were gay by circumstances in their lives. I asked plenty of questions to get to the truth.

So maybe lesbians are different, but not necessarily. And since when did you become the one and only expert on what makes a lesbian, Safe Bet? Or are you self-appointed?

 

[AllardChardon]

Jack Luis,

Yes, the sequel was supposed to take place in Virginia City around the Comstock silver load days, but I opted for a European vacation where they meet a distant relative of the Marquis de Sade in Paris and visit the Tower of London. You know, a sexy traveloge. LOL The thrid book takes place in Denver right after gold was discovered and ends there, I think...

Allard

 

[JackLuis]

Jack Luis,

Yes, the sequel was supposed to take place in Virginia City around the Comstock silver load days, but I opted for a European vacation where they meet a distant relative of the Marquis de Sade in Paris and visit the Tower of London. You know, a sexy traveloge. LOL The thrid book takes place in Denver right after gold was discovered and ends there, I think...

Allard

Sexual Travels? I think I like it already.

 

[freshface]

Not according to the over 100 gay men I interviewed in the 80s at a gay disco in North Hollywood, anyway. I would say roughly half the men were gay by genetic design and half were gay by circumstances in their lives. I asked plenty of questions to get to the truth.

So maybe lesbians are different, but not necessarily. And since when did you become the one and only expert on what makes a lesbian, Safe Bet? Or are you self-appointed?

So interviewing a hundred gay men in the 80s in Hollywood makes you an expert on sexual preference? You have training in how to eliminate bias in surveys? You think that gay men in a Hollywood disco are representative of the whole gay population? Do you suppose that adults in the 80s might have been influenced by prevailing societal prejudices of the 50s and 60s, when they were growing up?

To suggest that homosexuality is a choice is like suggesting heterosexuality is a choice. I didn't wake up one day and decide that I preferred sex with men. It's just the way I am.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Gay is in the same class of problems like dwarfism and siamese twins and two-headed snakes. Nature makes them then weeds them out of the garden.

 

[AllardChardon]

I never said I was an expert. Far from it. I stated that I conducted a personal study of gay men, the asst. manager was a good friend of mine, because I was curious.

I admit the circumstances were unique. Gay Bar, North Hollywood, Donna Summer Disco 80s. Wild.

Anyway, what struck me was the number of young men who had never tried a woman because an older man had seduced them, introducing them to sex and now they were comfortable with it. They found women attractive and were not sure they were 100% gay, but had not tried heterosexuality, even once.

Others claimed domineering fathers, overprotective mothers, abuse, you name it, for the reason they preferred men. Only about half reported being simply born that way, as you say.

In examining this further in my mind, I came to the conclusion that these young men might have been bi-sexual, but did not know it yet. But, I am sure trauma can change people.

I met a woman in her 40s who was horribly abused by her husband. She went to counseling, fell in love with her female counselor, a long time full fledged lesbian, and divorced her husband. The ladies are both very happy. Was she always a lesbian and didn't know it or did her husband turn her off sex with men?

There must be room for all reasons, yes? This is not necessarily "one size fits all".

 

[Safe_Bet]

As a teenager, she had been pregnant and given birth three times, in about five years, was a horrible addict and shouldn't have been birthing any child. I understood why her parents did this, but I was shocked to learn this truth. She is not in much better shape now and, of the two children she did keep, her daughter is a militant lesbian and her son is a Jehoval Witness.

I didn't really want to get into this aspect, but the mother seriously physically abused her children (with cigarettes on the genitalia) and they both ended up traumatized, of course, but took different paths to find peace. Both ends of the spectrum, it seems. The mother is still a mess. The son knocked on my door the other day and offered me the latest Watchtower. I took it and thanked him.

Not according to the over 100 gay men I interviewed in the 80s at a gay disco in North Hollywood, anyway. I would say roughly half the men were gay by genetic design and half were gay by circumstances in their lives.

Others claimed domineering fathers, overprotective mothers, abuse, you name it, for the reason they preferred men. Only about half reported being simply born that way, as you say.

I met a woman in her 40s who was horribly abused by her husband. She went to counseling, fell in love with her female counselor, a long time full fledged lesbian, and divorced her husband. The ladies are both very happy. Was she always a lesbian and didn't know it or did her husband turn her off sex with men?

Why do you repeatedly describe abuse as the determining factor for a person's sexual orientation?

Your "research" of gay guys in a disco not withstanding, look at the credible research and the abuse of gays and lesbians is the same percentage as the rest of the population.

Additionally, your keep confusing sexual orientation and sexual preference. If a lonely straight person can get some love and companionship from a gay person then they may take it, but that doesn’t make it their sexual orientation.

I'd guess (and I'm ADMITTING that I'm only guessing) that your "experience" with abused people having gay sex may have more to do with their loneliness than with their orientation.

BTW, please don't put words in my mouth. "the one and only expert on what makes a lesbian" are your words, not mine. I don't profess to be the "one and only" but 30+ years of being a lesbian give me more credibity, knowledge and experience with BEING a lesbian than your few nights of talking to gay guys in a disco.

 

[AllardChardon]

I have been talking about abuse as the catalyst for changes in sexual behavior. Trauma can do that, forever.

I admit I have spent more time talking to gay men than gay women, but my interest did not stop back then. I have several men friends today who are gay and we get along just fine.

You, of course, know more than I on the subject of lesbians and have a much greater interest in that subject than me, I am sure. I rarely ask lesbians much because the ones around here see that as an invitation and I am not interested.

Genetically, some people are only attracted to the same sex. But what about those other cases, like bi-sexuals, that find both sexes attractive and the ones that switch sides, back and forth? Attraction is many things and changes over time. It is not static and can cross lines easily. Sometimes the attraction is to security or safety.

My mother had two very good men friends when I was growing up and it was years before I figured out they were lovers, actually married. They were so sweet. I have never been a homophobe, just a curious heterosexual.

 

[cloudy]

Could you please explain to me WTF her daugher being a lesbian has to do with this subject? You sure make it sound like it was a dire consequence of her actions.

This clueless heterosexual read Allard's post exactly the way you did, as if being a lesbian was some horrible punishment for her mother's actions.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I have been talking about abuse as the catalyst for changes in sexual behavior. Trauma can do that, forever.

I admit I have spent more time talking to gay men than gay women, but my interest did not stop back then. I have several men friends today who are gay and we get along just fine.

You, of course, know more than I on the subject of lesbians and have a much greater interest in that subject than me, I am sure. I rarely ask lesbians much because the ones around here see that as an invitation and I am not interested.

Genetically, some people are only attracted to the same sex. But what about those other cases, like bi-sexuals, that find both sexes attractive and the ones that switch sides, back and forth? Attraction is many things and changes over time. It is not static and can cross lines easily. Sometimes the attraction is to security or safety.

My mother had two very good men friends when I was growing up and it was years before I figured out they were lovers, actually married. They were so sweet. I have never been a homophobe, just a curious heterosexual.

You REALLY need to read more about this subject before you start making declarations about trauma and abuse causing changes in sexual behavior and then transmutating that into changes sexual orientation. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, as I stated in my post, between orientation and preferences. If you and I had lesbian sex you will still be a straight woman. The sex doesn't create some instantaneous transformation and abuse WILL NOT CHANGE A PERSON ORIENTATION!

See as how you obviously won't believe me maybe a quote from the Surgeon General will work:

United States Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report stating that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_orientation

BTW Allard, I started laughing when I read the line in your posting which said

I have several men friends today who are gay

It reminds me so much of people who used to try to hide their prejudices by saying “some of my best friends are black”.

 

[AllardChardon]

From the article you posted,"The American Psychiatric Association has stated "some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime." In combination with other major American medical organizations, they have put out a statement which said: "Sexual orientation develops across a person's lifetime—different people realize at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual." A report from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health states: "For some people, sexual orientation is continuous and fixed throughout their lives. For others, sexual orientation may be fluid and change over time." One study has suggested "considerable fluidity in bisexual, unlabeled, and lesbian women's attractions, behaviors, and identities."

And, "Partially because of religious reasons, some gay men and lesbians seek to change their sexual orientations through religious faith and practice. In a survey of 882 people who were undergoing conversion therapy, attending ex-gay groups or ex-gay conferences, 22. 9% reported they had not undergone any changes, 42.7% reported some changes, and 34.3% reported much change in sexual orientation. Exodus International is the largest ostensibly ex-gay group. A major ally of Exodus International is Focus on the Family, who works with Exodus International in their Love Won Out ministry."

So Safe Bet, we are both right.

As to why I am so concerned with abuse, that goes back to my childhood. My dad was incestuous, but luckily for me, he did not get very far. It started as soon as I got boobs and continued until he threw me out at 19 because I would not touch his erection, that he got just for me, of course. I never did touch him and he only touched one of my nipples once before I threw him out of my room. He gave me sexy books to read, hoping to catch me all bothered so he could have a go at it.

It did not turn me off men, but it did turn me off strong men. I chose weak men I could manipulate. That was after my man-eater stage. I chewed men up sexually and spit them out like the wrapping paper on candy. Then I was celebate for two years. Then I got pregnant with my oldest and became a single welfare Mom. Yes, abuse does have lasting results. I can still spot a mind-fucker a mile off. You see, my dad, used logical reasoning for his approach and convinced my Mom, his feelings for me were "nornmal". I forgave my Dad long before I forgave my mother.