1 in 5 young adults has personality disorder - yahoo.news

[ellynei]

Well, this is supposedly a matter of a large scale study, not a matter of subjective interpretation of the diagnostic criteria.

As long as psychiatry claims to have a well-defined diagnostic system, those adhering to established psychiatry needs to work according to that system when making "studies", unless of course choices to deviate from those are clearly mentioned in such a study.

In your case then, if you made a study of ADHD patients, you should mention that the study was based on patients fulfilling the criterias you mentioned.

(That way people would understand why the results of your study would differ from a similar study made on a random selection of children diagnosed with ADHD by people who doesn't like children who has energy for more than watching tv or playing computer-games.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ELLYNEI

When the 'experts' get together and decide what is and isnt a disorder, the results are a popularity contest. They actually vote on it.

In 1980 the DSM 3 eliminated homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder. Others have come and gone, too. No one is neurotic now, but they were neurotic in 1969.

If I was a clinician in 1979 and determined that you werent sick because youre queer, in terms of the experts my decision was erroneous; in 1980 the same determination would be correct. A vote makes you in or out. I was obviously smarter than the experts in 1979....or they got dum like me in 1980.

I never based my decisions on 'experts,' I used best standards and practices and common sense.

 

[xssve]

Does anyone have the name of this study? Or something else that would make looking it up easier?

Dunno, but this sounds similar:

In July of 2003 the commission published the results of their study. They found that mental health disorders often go undiagnosed and recommended to the President that there should be more comprehensive screening for mental illnesses for people of all ages, including pre-school age children. In accordance with their findings, the commission recommended that schools were in a “key position” to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adult employees of our nation’s schools.2
...
In November of 2004, Congress appropriated $20 million8 to implement the findings of the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health. This would include mandatory screening by schools for mental health illnesses. Congressman Ron Paul, R-Texas introduced an amendment to the appropriations bills which would withhold funding for mandatory mental health screenings and require parental consent and notification. His amendment, however, was voted down by a wide margin (95-315 in the House of Representatives).9 Paul, a doctor and long-time member of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) states, “At issue is the fundamental right of parents to decide what medical treatment is appropriate for their children. The notion of federal bureaucrats ordering potentially millions of youngsters to take psychotropic drugs like Ritalin strikes an emotional chord with American parents.” Paul says the allegation “that we have a nation of children with undiagnosed mental disorders crying out for treatment is patently false,” and warns that mental health screening could be used to label children whose attitudes, religious beliefs, and political views conflict with established doctrine. Paul further warns that an obvious major beneficiary of this legislation is the pharmaceutical industry. The AAPS has decried this legislation, which they say will lead to mandatory psychological testing of every child in America without parental consent, and “heap even more coercive pressure on parents to medicate children with potentially dangerous side effects.”

Universal Mental Screening Program Usurps Parental Rights

Sorry JBJ, common sense is not involved here, this about the money.

Ironic of course, is that many of these milder forms of ADHD may well be brought on or exacerbated by all the steroids and sugar in product from industrial Ag and meat farms.

Wait - didn't we talk about this before?

Welcome to the machine.

 

[ellynei]

Dunno, but this sounds similar: Universal Mental Screening Program Usurps Parental Rights

Sorry JBJ, common sense is not involved here, this about the money.

Ironic of course, is that many of these milder forms of ADHD may well be brought on or exacerbated by all the steroids and sugar in product from industrial Ag and meat farms.

Wait - didn't we talk about this before?

Welcome to the machine.

I read that link. I feel sick to the gut now, nauseous. When reading a thing like that, one would want to be able to push it away as "crazy conspiracy theory" but even with a fractional knowledge of how american politics works, it is the most liable explanation to a study like the one mentioned in first post.

America doesn't have freedom of speech, and now they want to remove your childrens freedom of thought too?

No wonder some americans likes to hang out in camps and play with guns.

At least there is no wall around your country, emigration to countries who has democracy and freedom is still an option. It's not all that easy to gain citizenship up here in the free world, but it's possible.


Flee while you can.


I'm sorry, I can't make a rational comment to... It's too much.

USA is a scary place...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

XSSVE

A few years ago our hospital and others offered free depression exams at the local malls. Everyone loves free, so folks took the paper test and were involuntarily commited to the hospital if they answered the test wrong. Lots of pissed-off people!

 

[lil_elvis]

As my schizophrenic friend would say, "If that's the way you feel about it, we're leaving!"

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I read that link. I feel sick to the gut now, nauseous. When reading a thing like that, one would want to be able to push it away as "crazy conspiracy theory" but even with a fractional knowledge of how american politics works, it is the most liable explanation to a study like the one mentioned in first post.

America doesn't have freedom of speech, and now they want to remove your childrens freedom of thought too?

No wonder some americans likes to hang out in camps and play with guns.

At least there is no wall around your country, emigration to countries who has democracy and freedom is still an option. It's not all that easy to gain citizenship up here in the free world, but it's possible.


Flee while you can.


I'm sorry, I can't make a rational comment to... It's too much.

USA is a scary place...

Before you get too "scared" remember that Ron Paul is a paranoid manipulator whose entire presidential campaign was a liteny of diatribes against federal programs that don't exist, don't show up in the federal budget and are products of his own flakey little mind. Doctor? Psychiatrist? Suuuuuuuurrrrrrrre!

 

[AllardChardon]

Ron Paul was trying to give parents the right to decide which drugs or no drugs their children need to take, and keep it away from the experts. I thank him for his efforts, as every parent should.

America is scary. Only the paranoid survive. And watch out for the Big Pharm.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Ron Paul was trying to give parents the right to decide which drugs or no drugs their children need to take, and keep it away from the experts. I thank him for his efforts, as every parent should.

America is scary. Only the paranoid survive. And watch out for the Big Pharm.

Yeah, I REALLY don't want experts making decisions! The uneducated are much better able to make those for us!
(Don't forget about those black helocopters, either! )

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Yeah, I REALLY don't want experts making decisions! The uneducated are much better able to make those for us!

No.

Most parents are better able to make those decisions for their children, and whether or not they need or want to engage any "expert" advice. If we're a capitalist society, then we're all consumers, and consumers should have the right to choose when or if they want a service.

 

[Safe_Bet]

No.

Most parents are better able to make those decisions for their children, and whether or not they need or want to engage any "expert" advice. If we're a capitalist society, then we're all consumers, and consumers should have the right to choose when or if they want a service.

Selena I'm a parent too. When my kids are sick I take them to their pediatrician. He is an expert. I listen to what he says as opposed to somebody who warns me to "watch out for the Big Pharm" and doesn't have a medical degree.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SAFE-BET

I had a case involving a prominent E/R doc. Momma took junior to the pediatrician. The pediatrician told her Junior had penumonia, and wrote scripts for meds.

Momma took the scripts to the drugstore, and they lost them. She learned of this when daddy went to pick the meds up after work.

Momma tries to get the pediatrician via phone. Cant be reached, public health center.

Momma takes Junior to the hospital. Doc sez kid has a cold...not a problem.

Junior gets sicker. Mom takes him back to hospital. Doc assures her its a cold. Dont worry.

Junior dies of pneumonia.

I can cite more cases like this. There are plenty of them.

 

[AllardChardon]

Safe Bet, if you didn't read the link posted below regarding the article "Universal Mental Screening Program Usurps Parental Rights"
then you would not understand my reference to "Big Pharm", which was a quote.

Try to be a little more informed before lashing out at others, please. You seem to be always looking for an argument around here, but I do not play that game, in case you have not noticed. I would hate to have to put you on ignore. I have never put anyone on ignore yet, BTW. Hostility in your responses is not necessary to good communication. Diplomacy is an art.

And paranoid, or not, I do have a right to my opinion which I state without hostility.

Allard

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Selena I'm a parent too. When my kids are sick I take them to their pediatrician. He is an expert. I listen to what he says as opposed to somebody who warns me to "watch out for the Big Pharm" and doesn't have a medical degree.

If you want to be a good sheep, go right ahead. I don't happen to believe the experts always know best, or that they have my or my family's best interests at heart. I have a mind, and I like to use it and make my own judgments, thank you very much. I don't place my well-being or the well-being of my children in anyone else's hands without careful consideration, and I don't blindly trust even the "experts." That's what second opinions are for. No person or "expert" is infallible, regardless of the amount of letters they put after their name.

And I certainly want the OPTION not to do so, if I choose.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Safe Bet, if you didn't read the link posted below regarding the article "Universal Mental Screening Program Usurps Parental Rights"
then you would not understand my reference to "Big Pharm", which was a quote.

Try to be a little more informed before lashing out at others, please. You seem to be always looking for an argument around here, but I do not play that game, in case you have not noticed. I would hate to have to put you on ignore. I have never put anyone on ignore yet, BTW. Hostility in your responses is not necessary to good communication. Diplomacy is an art.

And paranoid, or not, I do have a right to my opinion which I state without hostility.

Allard

Give me a break! In numerous threads and postings, you have "warned" against the "evil chemical and pharmaceutical companies.” Contrary to YOUR apparent beliefs, scientific and medical expertise isn't all bad. As an informed parent, you ALWAYS have options, but to make blanket statements like "keep it away from the experts" is not just naïve, but possibly dangerous.

As for putting me on ignore because I have the tenacity to call you on your comments: Whatever ∞

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Give me a break! In numerous threads and postings, you have "warned" against the "evil chemical and pharmaceutical companies.” Contrary to YOUR apparent beliefs, scientific and medical expertise isn't all bad. As an informed parent, you ALWAYS have options, but to make blanket statements like "keep it away from the experts" is not just naïve, but possibly dangerous.
∞

If you read the article that was linked... it was all about USURPING PARENTAL RIGHTS in order to diagnose mental disorders from preschool on up. That looks to me like taking away those options you assume parents ALWAYS have.

And just cuz you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get ya.

 

[Liar]

If you want to be a good sheep, go right ahead. I don't happen to believe the experts always know best, or that they have my or my family's best interests at heart. I have a mind, and I like to use it and make my own judgments, thank you very much. I don't place my well-being or the well-being of my children in anyone else's hands without careful consideration, and I don't blindly trust even the "experts." That's what second opinions are for. No person or "expert" is infallible, regardless of the amount of letters they put after their name.

Maybe this is harsh (I know it is, unfair too, I'm giving an extreme example to drive home a point, thankyouverymuch), but I've heard exactly the same kind of sentiments from parents who were convinced that prayer was a better teatment of their son's cancer than chemotherapy.

Is there a line to draw? And if so, where?

 

[Safe_Bet]

If you read the article that was linked... it was all about USURPING PARENTAL RIGHTS in order to diagnose mental disorders from preschool on up. That looks to me like taking away those options you assume parents ALWAYS have.

And just cuz you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get ya.

Actually I did read the article and I didn't see anything about mandatory treatment in it. As for the screening I don't see this as being any different that the screening and vaccination requirements that are already in place. Additionally, I took note of the sources:

Sources: Asheville Global Report (British Medical Journal),No. 284, June 24-30, 2004, Title: “Bush Plans To Screen Whole U.S. Population For Mental Illness,” Author: Jeanne Lenzer, http://www.agrnews.org/issues/284/#2; Truth News, September 13,2004, Title: “Forcing Kids Into a Mental Health Ghetto,” Congressman Ron Paul, http://www.truthnews.net/world/2004090078.htm

I don't really give either one of these "sources" credibility. BTW the Asheville Global Report is NOT a British Medical Journal it used the BMJ as a reference (without cited for what) and the other "source" is an article by Ron Paul who has a rather unique agenda.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Actually I did read the article and I didn't see anything about mandatory treatment in it. As for the screening I don't see this as being any different that the screening and vaccination requirements that are already in place. Additionally, I took note of the sources:

They were talking about doing screening WITHOUT parental consent or knowledge. At the moment, vaccines are optional and parental consent is required. So are more benign screenings like vision, hearing. Sex ed is optional. None of these seek to USURP parental rights.

But this sort of screening DOES advocate that:

In November of 2004, Congress appropriated $20 million8 to implement the findings of the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health. This would include mandatory screening by schools for mental health illnesses. Congressman Ron Paul, R-Texas introduced an amendment to the appropriations bills which would withhold funding for mandatory mental health screenings and require parental consent and notification. His amendment, however, was voted down by a wide margin (95-315 in the House of Representatives)

And Liar - yes your example is extreme, as you know. And we all know there are parents out there who do make uneducated decisions, or faith-based decisions that society as a whole might not believe in or condone.

There is no good answer to your question. The CPS system currently in place certainly isn't a good answer.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Since 1967 I've observed 'experts' pull all kinds of chicanery because they were out to make a quick dollar, because they had an inflated sense of their own authority, or because the patient pissed them off in some way.

The first example was a guy named ED. His psychiatrist diagnosed ED as paranoid schizophrenic; but ED was 40, had a Masters Degree, and a successful business. One day he woke up and started acting goofy. The doc said it was schizophrenia. ED died of brain cancer.

 

[AllardChardon]

My ex had a brain tumor, cancerous, removed in March of this year. Before the operation, he acted goofy and we didn't know why either. Luckily, he had a seizure and went to the hospital. I think they caught it in time, because he just had a PET Scan and it was normal. He has a crater in his head but no cancer. Thank God, we didn't see the doctor you mentioned. There is a reason for malpractice insurance, after all. I feel for those people who put their trust in the wrong hands and have to live with the consequences.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I'm sorry but I think this article is a crock. If Congress appropriated $24M for mandatory mental health screening, how come the mandate has never reached the school level? Huh? There is no mandatory mental health screening in my school, none! Occasionally we come across a child with rather obvious psycho/emotional problems. The procedures it takes to get treatment for the poor little bugger are extensive and if the parent doesn't sign off on them they don't happen. Give it a break, folks. This is either an urban myth or an attention ploy by Ron Paul.

 

[AllardChardon]

Volupt,

Do you need to have "the last word" and tell us all to "Give it a break" at the same time. I think this is the third time you have tried to end a thread that I have been enjoying. I just don't understand your tactic. What's the use? Do we listen? Does the thread end? Do we give it a break when you tell us to?

Not really.

Allard

 

[Safe_Bet]

Volupt,

Do you need to have "the last word" and tell us all to "Give it a break" at the same time. I think this is the third time you have tried to end a thread that I have been enjoying. I just don't understand your tactic. What's the use? Do we listen? Does the thread end? Do we give it a break when you tell us to?

Not really.

Allard

Sweet! You have "a right to my opinion which I state without hostility" but nobody else does? WTF is with that?

P.S. You seem to be just a tiny bit hostile to me, too.

 

[AllardChardon]

So nice of you to show up again, Safe Bet, and now you are defending Volupt. I bet you never defend me. LOL

No, I am not being hostile on this one and a person cannot tell this through words, only facial expressions. I just do not understand why Volupt tries to tell us to stop. It is not like we do. It usually causes more. So it is pointless and if he never does that again on a post of mine, I will appreciate it greatly. I guess I do not respond well to being TOLD to shut up or what to think. We all have the right to our opinions and Volupt commented on Ron Paul early on.

Tell me that you do not like my opinion and I will tolerate it. Tell me to be quiet and that is another story.