“fictional Kids”

[loquere]

In a fictional scenario for a story. If the “FICTIONAL KIDS” of a President were kidnaped how much would the ransom be and who would pay?

 

[PennLady]

In a fictional scenario for a story. If the “FICTIONAL KIDS” of a President were kidnaped how much would the ransom be and who would pay?

I think that would depend a great deal on all kinds of things. Is it political or personal? What are the kidnappers ultimate goals? Do the kidnappers realize that a president doesn't draw a huge salary compared to many other private sector jobs? Is the Pres rich in his own right? Does the ransom have to be money? Are they kidnapped within the US, or abroad? Are the kids under 18?

 

[lovecraft68]

Well if it were this president, he would have to borrow from China to pay the ransom because the country is broke under him and he would spend the entire time apologizing to the kidnappers.

 

[loquere]

I think that would depend a great deal on all kinds of things. Is it political or personal? What are the kidnappers ultimate goals? Do the kidnappers realize that a president doesn't draw a huge salary compared to many other private sector jobs? Is the Pres rich in his own right? Does the ransom have to be money? Are they kidnapped within the US, or abroad? Are the kids under 18?

I’m really not looking at all those factors, I’m avoiding a preamble. I’m looking for generalizations. An 18 year old is not a kid. The President makes a huge salary close to half a million, that’s way above average. I was actually hinting at with (who would pay?) that the Prez wouldn’t necessarily pay out of pocket.

I posed the question in a generic manner as if it were any typical kidnapping void of extraordinary circumstances.


(How much would the ransom be?) (Who would pay?) Simply answer the two with the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[loquere]

Well if it were this president, he would have to borrow from China to pay the ransom because the country is broke under him and he would spend the entire time apologizing to the kidnappers.

Not talking about Obama I'm talking about fictional President Lovecraft68. Lovecraft68 is on the second term.

 

[lovecraft68]

Not talking about Obama I'm talking about fictional President Lovecraft68. Lovecraft68 is on the second term.

Well hell, if I'm president the answer is I wouldn't pay anything!

Trust me when I tell you within a day those kidnappers would show back up and pay me to take them back.

My answer would be to go big seeing it would be the president something ludicrous like a 100 million.

Wow me as the president.

I'd be leading a Jihad against Islam the likes of which even they couldn't imagine

 

[Boxlicker101]

In a fictional scenario for a story. If the “FICTIONAL KIDS” of a President were kidnaped how much would the ransom be and who would pay?

I doubt anybody would ever kidnap the president's children to hold for ransome. There would be too much risk with the armed guards who accompany them, so almost any other child would make a better target.

Any abduction that might happen would have to be carried out by fanatics, because some of them would end up dead. Therefore, the "ransome" would be some presidential action, such as a pardon for some Islamist leader, or residning from the presidency or closing Gitmo, or some other action. Personally, I don't think it would work, because, if and when the children were realeased, the president would renege on his promise, with nobody holding it against him or her.

 

[3113]

Watch "West Wing" Episodes

In a fictional scenario for a story. If the “FICTIONAL KIDS” of a President were kidnaped how much would the ransom be and who would pay?

Ignoring someone sounding enough like a GB troll to put him on my ignore list....

You might want to watch the West Wing episodes (end of season 4) where Zoe, the President's daughter was kidnapped. The thing to remember is that it's not a private kidnapping. It is considered an attack on "us" because it's an attack on the president.

In the West Wing episodes on this, the president immediately (if temporarily) stepped down knowing that his acts would be compromised by the kidnappers. So the Vice President (or in the case of the West Wing, Speaker of the House) would take charge and become president. Thus, acting president's son/daughter *NOT* in charge any longer, no able to be manipulated into making decisions of national importance based on saving his child's life.

Next, the secret service has lost the kid (you'd better find out how the kidnappers got him/her given this), they and the FBI are going to be searching. There is no "keep quiet and don't go to the police on this." It's hard for a president's kid to vanish and no one to know it. So everyone knows it (at least, everyone within White House security and along those lines), and everyone is looking for her. How are your kidnappers going to avoid being found?

So the taxpayers are paying for all these branches of law enforcement to look for the kid and kidnappers, but no ransom money is going to the kidnappers from anyone unless that is the play that the FBI, CIA, etc. feel must be taken--so, again, your scenario must make it one they must take. The FBI or whomever would get the money to the kidnappers--it would be, we presume, a loan from the government to the president for this situation. One we assume he would not have to pay back because the FBI does no fuck around. They aren't going to give the money to anyone unless it's guaranteed they can grab the kidnappers and get the kid back in doing so. It's why kidnapping in the U.S. is relatively rare as compared to some other places. Because they take it personally and don't like to let anyone get away with it.

Though more of a comedy, you might also want to watch "Guarding Tess" about a secret service man guarding an ex-First Lady. The "ex's" tend to be watched over, too, and, again, outrage among certain branches of law enforcement would be in full force if they were taken. It would, however, be easier to take the kid of an "ex" president than one currently residing in the White House. The ones in the White House are guarded 24/7 because anyone might try to take or hurt them for any reason.

 

[3113]

To add--in answer to your question and as mentioned, one doesn't take the president's kid for a huge ransom. That would be a bit pointless--you've the kid of a man who can order a nuclear strike and all you want is money? And you're going to risk having the FBI, etc. after you just to get money? One takes a billionaire's kid for that. One takes the kid of a president in hopes of getting the president to change policy on something or order someone pardoned, something like that.

 

[loquere]

Deleted

 

[PennLady]

I’m really not looking at all those factors, I’m avoiding a preamble. I’m looking for generalizations. An 18 year old is not a kid. The President makes a huge salary close to half a million, that’s way above average. I was actually hinting at with (who would pay?) that the Prez wouldn’t necessarily pay out of pocket.

I posed the question in a generic manner as if it were any typical kidnapping void of extraordinary circumstances.

(How much would the ransom be?) (Who would pay?) Simply answer the two with the first thing that comes to mind.

You can't term the kidnapping of a President's children as a "generalization." Surely the procedures there would be different than if a regular person (so to speak) was kidnapped. Once you have a head of state involved, you are no longer in a generic situation.

As others have pointed out, a President's children (and a VP's, to my knowledge) have 24-hour security, and these people are highly skilled and good at their jobs. So first you have to have someone get past all that security to get the kids, then hide them. And I'll be honest, I don't think it matters if the kids are older or younger than eighteen; if you've kidnapped the offspring of a head of state, that's serious business.

The president makes $400k a year and has other benefits. Now yes, that's a lot of money, but is it all he has? What did he do or make before that -- is he worth millions, personally?

And I can't just answer those questions off the top of my head. I need to know who did the kidnapping. Is it a terrorist group trying to show they can get to anyone? Is it a personal thing, someone who holds a grudge or feels they've been slighted? And why must it be money? Why not ask for the President's resignation? Or to appoint certain people to certain posts?

Like I said, you can't say it's a generic kidnapping and then say it's the President's child -- that's not generic.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

Sounds like "The Negotiator" by Frederick Forsyth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negotiator_(novel)

 

[3113]

The president makes $400k a year and has other benefits. Now yes, that's a lot of money, but is it all he has? What did he do or make before that -- is he worth millions, personally?

That's a good point. I think what Loquere is thinking is that the U.S. government would front the President any amount of money demanded by the kidnappers. It might--or it might not. The kidnappers are taking a risk if they're assuming the president can get them a huge amount of money fast. A big risk as the whole world is going to be looking for them and after them.

Once again, if money is all you're after, why not kidnap Warren Buffett's kid? Warren can give the kidnappers $100 million out of pocket, right there, right then.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

If you read The Negotiator, the people who hired the kidnappers didn't care about the money. In fact the synopsis on Wikipedia makes that clear.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ignoring someone sounding enough like a GB troll to put him on my ignore list....

You might want to watch the West Wing episodes (end of season 4) where Zoe, the President's daughter was kidnapped. The thing to remember is that it's not a private kidnapping. It is considered an attack on "us" because it's an attack on the president.

In the West Wing episodes on this, the president immediately (if temporarily) stepped down knowing that his acts would be compromised by the kidnappers. So the Vice President (or in the case of the West Wing, Speaker of the House) would take charge and become president. Thus, acting president's son/daughter *NOT* in charge any longer, no able to be manipulated into making decisions of national importance based on saving his child's life.

Next, the secret service has lost the kid (you'd better find out how the kidnappers got him/her given this), they and the FBI are going to be searching. There is no "keep quiet and don't go to the police on this." It's hard for a president's kid to vanish and no one to know it. So everyone knows it (at least, everyone within White House security and along those lines), and everyone is looking for her. How are your kidnappers going to avoid being found?

So the taxpayers are paying for all these branches of law enforcement to look for the kid and kidnappers, but no ransom money is going to the kidnappers from anyone unless that is the play that the FBI, CIA, etc. feel must be taken--so, again, your scenario must make it one they must take. The FBI or whomever would get the money to the kidnappers--it would be, we presume, a loan from the government to the president for this situation. One we assume he would not have to pay back because the FBI does no fuck around. They aren't going to give the money to anyone unless it's guaranteed they can grab the kidnappers and get the kid back in doing so. It's why kidnapping in the U.S. is relatively rare as compared to some other places. Because they take it personally and don't like to let anyone get away with it.

Though more of a comedy, you might also want to watch "Guarding Tess" about a secret service man guarding an ex-First Lady. The "ex's" tend to be watched over, too, and, again, outrage among certain branches of law enforcement would be in full force if they were taken. It would, however, be easier to take the kid of an "ex" president than one currently residing in the White House. The ones in the White House are guarded 24/7 because anyone might try to take or hurt them for any reason.

Dear Reader

'She' IGGYS any poster who isnt a raging, house afire, tiptoe thru the tulips queer.

 

[Bramblethorn]

That's a good point. I think what Loquere is thinking is that the U.S. government would front the President any amount of money demanded by the kidnappers. It might--or it might not. The kidnappers are taking a risk if they're assuming the president can get them a huge amount of money fast. A big risk as the whole world is going to be looking for them and after them.

And there's a big risk that s/he might not pay. A president is going to be under IMMENSE pressure not to negotiate; it would be a huge blow to the USA's superpower standing if somebody was able to blackmail them in this way.

I'm with the other commenters: anybody with the skills and resources to kidnap a US president's child is smart enough to realise it's not a good risk unless they have something other than financial gain in mind (as in The Negotiator).

Once again, if money is all you're after, why not kidnap Warren Buffett's kid? Warren can give the kidnappers $100 million out of pocket, right there, right then.

Just whatever you do, don't try kidnapping Gina Rinehart's kids. I think her most likely response would be "fuck off, I didn't like them anyway". http://afr.com/p/national/rinehart_threat_to_children_over_1pgIwadodelsyjjAvasEdI

 

[TamLin01]

Who would pay? Probably no one at all, under the "Don't negotiate with terrorists," M.O. Because, it being the president (of America, I assume, although really this would seem to apply to any democratic country), you simply couldn't treat it as a normal kidnapping, it would have to be presumed to be an act of terrorism.

By the way, I would think a former president's family would be much easier to target, and probably a much easier story to write. Just an idea.

 

[PennLady]

And there's a big risk that s/he might not pay. A president is going to be under IMMENSE pressure not to negotiate; it would be a huge blow to the USA's superpower standing if somebody was able to blackmail them in this way.

But all this is working under the assumption that it's terrorists -- foreign or domestic -- who kidnap the children. And I agree, in that case, the whole thing about not negotiating with terrorists comes into play and makes a difficult situation even more so.

But what if it isn't terrorists? What if it's another US politician? Or a family friend, or something like that? You likely couldn't hide the fact that the kidnapping has occurred, but then dealing with it would probably take a different route.

I'm with the other commenters: anybody with the skills and resources to kidnap a US president's child is smart enough to realise it's not a good risk unless they have something other than financial gain in mind (as in The Negotiator).

I haven't read The Negotiator but there was also the movie Air Force One, where the terrorists take control of the plane and have the President's family -- I think they were demanding the release of prisoners. That's a different situation, I realize, but someone was keeping the President's family away from him. But it's been a long time, so I'm probably not remembering all the details properly.

 

[loquere]

Who would pay? Probably no one at all, under the "Don't negotiate with terrorists," M.O. Because, it being the president (of America, I assume, although really this would seem to apply to any democratic country), you simply couldn't treat it as a normal kidnapping, it would have to be presumed to be an act of terrorism.

By the way, I would think a former president's family would be much easier to target, and probably a much easier story to write. Just an idea.

Not a terrorist if they are not pursuing a political agenda. Y'all have went off in a wild direction.
I'll pose another question then.

WHAT ($$$$$$$$$$$$MONETARY$$$$$$$$$$$$) VALUE WOULD YOU PLACE ON THE LIVES OF TWO KIDS THAT ONCE CRALLED OUT OF THE FIRST LADY'S SNATCH?

 

[3113]

And there's a big risk that s/he might not pay. A president is going to be under IMMENSE pressure not to negotiate; it would be a huge blow to the USA's superpower standing if somebody was able to blackmail them in this way.

Who would pay? Probably no one at all, under the "Don't negotiate with terrorists," M.O. Because, it being the president (of America, I assume, although really this would seem to apply to any democratic country), you simply couldn't treat it as a normal kidnapping, it would have to be presumed to be an act of terrorism.

Very true. Which is why, when the West Wing did this, the President temporarily stepped down, undermining the kidnapper's blackmail leverage. Whatever he might be willing to do to save his daughter he no longer could do as he wasn't president. It's a clever move as the terrorists who were trying to negotiate with the president of the U.S. were suddenly no longer negotiating with him--and he was no longer going to decide what consequences would result from this act.

I mean, that's another big difference. The president can stop being president at any moment and there goes the power you were hoping to use to get what you want. The billionaire can't instantly stop being a billionaire.

 

[loquere]

Very true. Which is why, when the West Wing did this, the President temporarily stepped down, undermining the kidnapper's blackmail leverage. Whatever he might be willing to do to save his daughter he no longer could do as he wasn't president. It's a clever move as the terrorists who were trying to negotiate with the president of the U.S. were suddenly no longer negotiating with him--and he was no longer going to decide what consequences would result from this act.

I mean, that's another big difference. The president can stop being president at any moment and there goes the power you were hoping to use to get what you want. The billionaire can't instantly stop being a billionaire.

He can burn it

 

[PennLady]

Okay, I'm going to back up here. When reading the OP, I took it to mean you were considering writing a fiction story in which the children of the President are captured, but both the children and the President are also fictional. Was I wrong?

 

[loquere]

Okay, I'm going to back up here. When reading the OP, I took it to mean you were considering writing a fiction story in which the children of the President are captured, but both the children and the President are also fictional. Was I wrong?

Yes, you are right. I already have a story but it'll need to be overhauled. The scenario is part of the long game or future plan of the story.

President fake kids fake yes and yes, it's fictional.

I started this thread with the intention of avoideing the geo-political rangling.

I simply wanted to know to be truthfull if people would be ok with the us government paying a ransome.

And how much a couple of first kids would go for.

 

[PennLady]

Yes, you are right. I already have a story but it'll need to be overhauled. The scenario is part of the long game or future plan of the story.

President fake kids fake yes and yes, it's fictional.

I started this thread with the intention of avoideing the geo-political rangling.

I simply wanted to know to be truthfull if people would be ok with the us government paying a ransome.

And how much a couple of first kids would go for.

Okay, fair enough. But do you see that it's not so easily answered? If you want to avoid a geopolitical thing, fine. The kidnapper could be a domestic rival of some kind, like I said. But it would have to be someone with a lot of resources, who can get past all the security.

And I doubt the US government would pay the ransom -- the President is a private citizen and if another private citizen kidnapped his children, it would have to be dealt with on that level to some extent. As someone pointed out, taxpayer money would likely be spent on the law-enforcement end of things, but that would happen on most kidnapping cases since as I understand it, the FBI gets involved and that's a federal agency.

And there's no price on what a kid would "go for." If someone is going to kidnap a child and ask for ransom, they will ask for as much as they think they can get. Let's say the ransom demand goes to the father; it will likely be based on what the kidnapper thinks he needs/wants, and what he knows -- or perceives -- the person he's demanding from is worth. So in your scenario -- what is your president worth?

 

[bronzeage]

I’m really not looking at all those factors, I’m avoiding a preamble. I’m looking for generalizations. An 18 year old is not a kid. The President makes a huge salary close to half a million, that’s way above average. I was actually hinting at with (who would pay?) that the Prez wouldn’t necessarily pay out of pocket.

I posed the question in a generic manner as if it were any typical kidnapping void of extraordinary circumstances.


(How much would the ransom be?) (Who would pay?) Simply answer the two with the first thing that comes to mind.

If all they demand is money, it's a simple deal. If they demand the release of prisoners or some other political action, that is a different story. A kidnapper who only wanted money would grab someone with more money and less resources to retaliate.

A realistic scenario:
The kidnappers are assured their demands will be met. The money is delivered by electronic funds transfer, so transporting cash is not an issue. The amount must be in small enough transactions it could be difficult to trace quickly. Remember, this is the Federal government. No matter how things go, it will always end the same way. Seal Team 6 descends from the sky and destroys all trace of the kidnappers.