Lesbians Only get to vote here on transgendered men

I said in this thread that I would post this poll - so here it is. Please, only Lesbians vote. Not bisexual women, not straight women, no men - just Lesbians. Thank you.

Since this is about Lesbian acceptance of transgendered individuals, let me ask this of Lesbian women here; would you accept a person who had gender reassignment surgery from a man to a woman as your sexual partner?

bump, even if I can't answer the poll

I want to know the answer too.

And I know you don't want a Bi view on it, but i'll give you one later after we get some lesbian answers.

You might want to try posting this on the GLBT board as well.

Queersetti said:

You might want to try posting this on the GLBT board as well.

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Excellent idea. I just started a thread there to link to this one.

The Heretic said:

I said in this thread that I would post this poll - so here it is. Please, only Lesbians vote. Not bisexual women, not straight women, no men - just Lesbians. Thank you.

Since this is about Lesbian acceptance of transgendered individuals, let me ask this of Lesbian women here; would you accept a person who had gender reassignment surgery from a man to a woman as your sexual partner?

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Is this about lesbian acceptance of transgendered individuals, or acceptance of transgendered individuals as lovers? Those are entirely different questions.

The reference to the previous thread makes me wonder just what is being asked, and why, and without knowing exactly what I'm responding to I'm not about to answer only to find myself at the heart of a she's-a-lesbian-who-wants-special-favors-but-discriminates-against-others bullshit controversy.

I believe the question is if lesbians accept them as lovers. There is no argument that you're walking into, just a few of us are curious.

Cheyenne said:

I believe the question is if lesbians accept them as lovers. There is no argument that you're walking into, just a few of us are curious.

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Well I agree that's the wording of the question, but it's relation to the previous thread makes me wonder.

I refrained from responding to the original thread as it was clearly an example of here's what some lesbians are doing so therefore all lesbians are evil mentality. If I answer here, I want it clearly understood that it reflects my feelings, and my feelings only. I'm a very unlesbianlike lesbian, if you will. I claim to speak for nobody but myself.

Shit. How to say this? The honest way is best, I suppose.

I am not attracted to men who have surgically changed themselves to become more woman-like. I have nothing against such individuals. I think if they feel a burning need to do this, then it's something they must do, but I feel in no way obligated to either think of them as female or be attracted to them as such.

"therefore all lesbians are evil mentality"

Where in the fuck did that stretch of reason come from?
The original thread had nothing said about the above conclusion.

Of course, I've heard the same accusation leveled at conservative people here too.

*The beat goes on.....

I'll be back to answer this later....I am off to work, have a great day.....

Hanns_Schmidt said:

The answer to your question, in general would be a 'no'.


But the infamous lesbian/s on this board are of too weak a character to show such blatant discrimination.

Being PC,liberal and scoring Lit points are the order of the day.


So I predict most will give some sit-on-the-fence answer

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The question wasn't addressed to you, Hanns. We don't care what you guess the answer might be.

In any case, Sigh gave a very definite answer. It happens to be the one I expected, and I don't think it is discrimination.

Re: "therefore all lesbians are evil mentality"

Lost Cause said:

Where in the fuck did that stretch of reason come from?
The original thread had nothing said about the above conclusion.

Of course, I've heard the same accusation leveled at conservative people here too.

*The beat goes on.....

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Gee, I wonder how I got that notion. How about the first line of your thread that went like this:

Lost Cause said:

I guess there's a limit to one of the "victim class" group's tolerance for diversity.....

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You take a single event and use it to launch an attack on an entire group. In your first sentence you implied that:

1) all lesbians consider themselves to be a member of a "victim class" (a term I've NEVER heard used by lesbians regarding themselves, but it's a common tactic of conservative groups to label other people, then define what the label means).

2) because the leaders of a specific gathering in Australia chose to exclude transgender individuals that all lesbians would choose to do so.

The tone, the calculated title and the followup statements by several of the respondents in that thread fed upon those implications in a see, they don't like it when the tables are turned glee of putdownmanship.

Yep, the beat does go on, and you're banging the drum this time, hon.

Cheyenne said:

The question wasn't addressed to you, Hanns. We don't care what you guess the answer might be.

In any case, Sigh gave a very definite answer. It happens to be the one I expected, and I don't think it is discrimination.

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Thank you, Chey. I make it a point to never respond to our boy in the commando jammies, but I was damned tempted to this time. You saved me the need.

sigh said:

Thank you, Chey. I make it a point to never respond to our boy in the commando jammies, but I was damned tempted to this time. You saved me the need.

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You're welcome. I don't address him often, either, but this time it seem appropriate.

I'd say Lost Cause's thread was what generated this thread, but I also think it is a genuine question from Heretic. No hassles intended, just an honest question as to how such a sex-changed person would be viewed by the lesbians here at Lit. I think that's one of the things I like most about Lit- we CAN ask such a question and know that we will get an answer. I don't know anyplace in me day to day life other than here where that would be possible on this topic.

Cheyenne said:

You're welcome. I don't address him often, either, but this time it seem appropriate.

I'd say Lost Cause's thread was what generated this thread, but I also think it is a genuine question from Heretic. No hassles intended, just an honest question as to how such a sex-changed person would be viewed by the lesbians here at Lit. I think that's one of the things I like most about Lit- we CAN ask such a question and know that we will get an answer. I don't know anyplace in me day to day life other than here where that would be possible on this topic.

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Yeah, I know. I gotta chill some. Heretic had some decent responses in the other thread and even when I don't agree with him, I respect him for his honesty. I direct no ire his way.

Nor yours, by the way, and if it felt like I did last night, I'm sorry for that because I feel the same way about you. Actually, I don't dislike LC either as is evident by the fact that I answer him. There's very few here I can't stomach, and I simply make it a point to never talk to them. I don't use ignore. I just ignore.

And yes, where else would anybody ask me such a question? You just have to love Lit for that.

Nah, I didn't feel like anything was directed at me. And I understand hesitating on answering, thinking it could be an "ambush" kind of question. My comments were really more for other lesbians who might be reading the thread. I didn't want them to be afraid of the movtives for the question and not have them answer because they don't want to get into such a debate.

I'm not really trying to take over Heretics thread, but I think I'm saying the things he would say if he were here.

Though I have no real-life experience to base this on, I have been pondering the subject since I first saw it....I guess post-op the male would most definately be female, and that in itself would be the factor....Should I meet and become attracted to such a person, yes I would persue a relationship....How would I see our relationship, it would be between 2 women....Should the anatomy still be intact, I would not persue such a relationship.....

Cheyenne said:

Nah, I didn't feel like anything was directed at me. And I understand hesitating on answering, thinking it could be an "ambush" kind of question. My comments were really more for other lesbians who might be reading the thread. I didn't want them to be afraid of the movtives for the question and not have them answer because they don't want to get into such a debate.

I'm not really trying to take over Heretics thread, but I think I'm saying the things he would say if he were here.

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Thanks Chey. I missed the thread this morning as I was busy getting ready to go to an appt. with a surgeon.

Anyway, I am here now and I thank everybody for their votes and answers. Apparently the view is somewhat divided.

I want to make it clear that what I was trying to express in the other thread was not meant to put down transgendered people, although I do think that some may be a little mixed up about what they want in life - but hey, who among us isn't to one degree or another? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/the.heretic/images/smilies/ne_nau.gif

Also, I wasn't trying to put down or entrap lesbians with a trick question; I was just thinking that this was a very germaine question. I am all for freedom of association, and while I can see some of LC's point that a group that claims minority status and then turns around and excludes an even smaller minority, may be questioned as to whether this is a little hypocritical - or not. Personally, since I don't consider a man who had "gender reassignment" to be a woman, much less a lesbian, no matter how many surgeries he had - I don't have a problem with it at all.

Now, if a lesbian group wanted to exclude bisexual women (which I have heard of before), then I would say this might be worth some discussion - but even then, if a group wishes to marginalize themselves, I say let them do it.

Again, not all, or not even most lesbians may agree with what this one particular group of lesbians is about, how they wanted to exclude those men, etc. - I wouldn't know. I am not trying to generalize lesbians sentiment. I would imagine that the views of lesbians cover a wide spectrum of divergent views on a lot of issues, with about the only generalization you could make about a lesbian being that they prefer women over men for sexual partners.

april-wine said:

Though I have no real-life experience to base this on, I have been pondering the subject since I first saw it....I guess post-op the male would most definately be female, and that in itself would be the factor....Should I meet and become attracted to such a person, yes I would persue a relationship....How would I see our relationship, it would be between 2 women....Should the anatomy still be intact, I would not persue such a relationship.....

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I pretty much agree with AW. I know a few TS people and Im pretty supportive about it.
Maybe if it came down to making that call personally, I would not be able to have a relationship with the person, I dont know. But in theory Im OK with accepting them as women and as lesbians.

I voted "yes."

Although I identify as lesbian, I am actually omnisexual or pansexual - that is, I consider myself capable of being attracted to anyone. It just happens that I am attracted almost exclusively to women-born women. But because I fully accept those transitioning (or post-transition) as their target gender, I would have no problem dating someone who self-identified as female.

(I note that this thread mentions "transgendered men" but nowhere does anybody clarify if that means MTF or FTM. I tend to use it to refer to FTMs. I would be unlikely to date a female-to-male transgendered person just because...well, I'm not interested in men, and they're men.)

Chey's thread in GLBT Chatter has relevant replies that didn't get posted here. Chey's thread

See also my related thread: Loving those who are in transition