How do I seduce my sex-weary wife?

Hi all you great Lit people, particularly the women. I need HELP.

I really need to know how to seduce my wife, not only for intimacy on a specific occasion but also to enhance her interest in sex more than once a month if I'm lucky.

We've been married for six years and the sex has never been great, but she swears I'm romantic enough for her so I really have no clue. She has gained a little weight in the past 7 years after being a gorgeously-thin blonde most of her younger years. I know this affects her self image, but I feel helpless b/c my words expressing my honest physical attraction to her meet nothing but a stare and then she rolls her eyes.

She is not a "prude" but she is certainly not very sexually curious, adventurous and definitely not expressive. Furthermore, sex therapy is OFF the table as an option and I've never been successful with motivating her to go to couples' counseling with me. Oh, and she is not worn down by the demands of children as we don't have any.

The above is not meant to be a sob story, just an explanation of the circumstances. Can anyone, particularly women with insight into this, offer any advice?

Thank you!!

I can relate

Edited...

Every day should be like a first date. You should try and seduce her with the same care and longing that you had on the first night you made love to her. Never ever let her forget why you married her, because you love her and want to be with her forever. Remind each time you see her after a you have both been working all day how much you love her with a kiss and a compliment. Never forget that she chose to marry you, this was not something she had to do, she married you out of love and a desire to be with you for the rest of her life, show her how that kind of commitment makes you feel. Never expect her to 'put out; just because you want her to, expect her to make love with you because you excite her. Even if you have to work a bit to excite her it will be worth it, if you show her that knid of love and affection she will return it, maybe not the first night, but in time.

Carnus

Hope that helps some

As far as I can read, there are two different situations between riboos and chicagoman.

Riboos, you state sex has never been great. Is this just since you married or was this also before you married? If your wife has always been this way, you may be hard pressed to change her.

Body image can be a big thing to a lot of women. Weight comes on and we just don't feel as attractive as we did before. There is one phrase that you made that stands out: "a gorgeously-thin blonde..." Why would you use the word "gorgeously"? Even though men mean well, sometimes the way they phrase things can make a woman think. My weight has fluctuated over my life, but one time I was extremely thin, unhealthily so. It was during that time that I received the most attention from men, and when I started to eat healthy and get to a normal weight, the man I was with had an "attitude change". He never actually said anything, it was simply in the way he related to me. Also, I was very sensitive to any change, so some of this was simply perceived by me. If you love your wife, weight gain or no, be certain that it doesn't enter into what you say or how you relate to her. And that includes any and all teasing!!

The question on seducing might mean doing things that are physical but do not turn sexual. Cuddling, snuggling, but letting her know that you do not expect more.

I've also noticed that you've stated you are bi-curious. Could it be that your sexual desires are branching out at a different rate than your wife's? Not all people grow together sexually at the same rate. It might be that when your wife hits her 30s or 40s, you might be the one who can't keep up with her!

Gentlemen..... If you want to keep the sex going in a marriage where its dried up, you have to work at it.

For the first 5-6 years my wife and I were together, sex was very good, then suddenly it started to dry up like what you describe.

This is a second marriage for me, the first one had me married to an ice queen and I wasn't about to go through that again.

I sat down with the wife and as gently as I possibly could I explained to her what she was doing to us. I told her that her "lack of appetite" was hurting our relationship. That in her acknowledge of the reduction of her own libido, she was also leaving me in a lurch as well. We talked for quite a while, no professional counseling, just she and I.

I won't say things have returned to the point of when we first got to together, but she is working on it and things have definitely improved. We still have sexually oriented discussions quite a lot, and I'm still looking for new ways to turn her on (as the old ways don't always work anymore). Guys, the whole point is you MARRIED this woman, don't be afraid to come out and say "Honey, something is wrong, and if we don't address it, its going to hurt our relationship".

Rules for having "THE SEX TALK"....
(This applies to dealing with a spouse of either gender that suddenly loses their sexual appetite)

1) NO ONE IS TO BLAME. SO DO NOT ACCUSE, THREATEN OR IMPOSE GUILT TRIPS.

2) Be calm and rational. Explain your position without resorting to yelling, or cursing. Let her/him know that you still love her, but explain how her/his lack of action is starting to hurt you.

3) Be reasonable. Ask if he/she has been feeling unwell, changed meds, has a problem which you both might be unaware of. Suggest a doctor's visit to rule out any underlying illnesses which might be at the root of the problem. Remember, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. If kids are part of the equation, then its UP TO YOU to see that you and your spouse manage to arrange some time away from them. Not just a few hours here and there, but longer if possible.

4) Don't demand! This immediately puts someone on the defensive. Instead, calmly explain to your spouse what you're feeling. If you're feeling resentment, hurt, unwanted, undesired etc. Marriage is an agreement where you both have agreed to look after each other, and take care of the needs of the other. A sudden loss of libido in one spouse is usually accompanied by that spouse figuring if he/she ain't horny anymore, then niether are you. You must make them see that concept for what it is, patently false.

One talk isn't going to fix the problem, but marriage and love means communicating. You must communicate with your spouse. If you love her/him, no matter how hard you might find it, you must talk with him/her and explain how his/her inaction is hurting you.

I firmly believe that a vast bulk of the marriage infidelities that happen, happen because one partner wasn't getting what they needed at home, AND he/she FAILED TO COMMUNICATE that point to his/her spouse.

One talk won't fix it, but it will start you on the road to fixing things if you're honest, and gentle in your approach. Remember you're not looking to start a fight, but trying to understand the situation you find yourself in. If that first talk seems to go well, plan on having many more of them. I liken it to the performance evaluations you have as an employee, sort of a State of the sex/relationship/marriage talk.

Having these talks isn't easy. You may hear things you don't want to hear. You may even come out of them feeling worse than before, but if you want your relationship to survive, you have to work on it. Just because you said "I do", doesn't mean everything will be peaches and roses twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. There's going to be rough spots, some mildly rough, and some will seem like the worst possible road you can imagine. But you don't stop communicating with that "I do".

For my own part, I refuse to go through what I went through with my first marriage. As a result the wife and I have been "having the talk" at regular intervals for year or two now. They are damn hard talks for me, I hate them because it always seems to me like I am complaining. But they've also put us back on an even keel. Perhaps we're not screwing like the bunnies we were when we first got together, but they have helped greatly. I can see her making a concerted effort and I love her all the more because of it.

So guys, cringe if you want, but it time to sit her down in a non-sexual situation and start really talking to her. Try to help her understand your position, and at the same time, try to help her understand the roots of the problem.

Sorry for the long post, but its something that had to be said.

SexyChele said:

Body image can be a big thing to a lot of women. Weight comes on and we just don't feel as attractive as we did before. There is one phrase that you made that stands out: "a gorgeously-thin blonde..." Why would you use the word "gorgeously"? Even though men mean well, sometimes the way they phrase things can make a woman think.

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This is one area that still mystifies me. My wife has a lousy image of her own body, and yet she firmly refuses to believe me when I tell her otherwise. She doesn't even believe me when her own actions drive me wild with lust.

For christs sake ladies, your body might have been what got us to look in the first place, but its you, the person, we married. Not the body.

I'll be crude here, but at least it might get my point across. I jack off fantasizing about her, her touch, the feel of her skin against my own. Just rubbing her back can give me a raging hardon. No amount of talking, telling her otherwise, has been able to make her feel sexy about herself.

Its the one thing that still pissed me off about her. She says she doesn't feel sexy, I find her incredibly sexy. I tell her and she shrugs it off like I must be lying. I don't get it and perhaps I never will. *sigh*

Welcome to my world, dude

I would try this first:

First:Cut her off so to speak. I don't mean turn her down if she comes to you for sex just don't go to her TILL she comes to you. See how long that last. You can learn a lot from that.

Second: Try being very loving to her so to speak. That is when your on the couch, watching TV give her long hard lovy dovy type kisses and when you get home kiss her passionately at the door and stuff, BUT don't group her and don't ask her for SEX!!!!!

Let her WANT to come to you.

SexyChele said:

As far as I can read, there are two different situations between riboos and chicagoman.

Riboos, you state sex has never been great. Is this just since you married or was this also before you married? If your wife has always been this way, you may be hard pressed to change her.

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Well, like everyone else, the sex life was all sound and fury early on before marriage. Her weight gain, in part due to another health issue, began after we were together and both developments have been parallel. You know, you can't change a person.. I truly believe that. My hope is to hear from others about ways I can ramp up my own efforts to try harder. I mean, you can't force a seed to germinate and grow into a beautiful plant, but you can prepare the soil, sew properly, water and everything else to provide ideal conditions, no?

Body image can be a big thing to a lot of women. Weight comes on and we just don't feel as attractive as we did before. There is one phrase that you made that stands out: "a gorgeously-thin blonde..." Why would you use the word "gorgeously"?

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By "gorgeously-thin" I mean that she had a healthy, attractive figure. She wasn't rail thin in an unhealthy/anorexic way. And in no way have I EVER made a vocalized a comparison between now and then to her, nor want to. I love her and find her as attractive now as then.

The question on seducing might mean doing things that are physical but do not turn sexual. Cuddling, snuggling, but letting her know that you do not expect more.

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I think this is the type of observation that is encouraging to me. I think the bottom line is that I fear I'm not doing enough, the right thing, etc. to seduce her for sexual intimacy or just to make her feel special without sex. Other husbands, what have you done successfully? Other wives, what has your husband done successfully or what do you secretly wish he would do, sexually and, more importantly not sexually, that would keep the home fires burning as it were?

I've also noticed that you've stated you are bi-curious. Could it be that your sexual desires are branching out at a different rate than your wife's? Not all people grow together sexually at the same rate. It might be that when your wife hits her 30s or 40s, you might be the one who can't keep up with her!

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This is quite possible and I contemplate it frequently, but I'll save this for another thread. All I want to do now is get diverse advice on this first issue and try hard to follow the best of it.

Thanks and keep it coming!

Bobmi357 said:

This is one area that still mystifies me. My wife has a lousy image of her own body, and yet she firmly refuses to believe me when I tell her otherwise. She doesn't even believe me when her own actions drive me wild with lust.

For christs sake ladies, your body might have been what got us to look in the first place, but its you, the person, we married. Not the body.

I'll be crude here, but at least it might get my point across. I jack off fantasizing about her, her touch, the feel of her skin against my own. Just rubbing her back can give me a raging hardon. No amount of talking, telling her otherwise, has been able to make her feel sexy about herself.

Its the one thing that still pissed me off about her. She says she doesn't feel sexy, I find her incredibly sexy. I tell her and she shrugs it off like I must be lying. I don't get it and perhaps I never will. *sigh*

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First, Bobmi, I just have to say your first post here ROCKED! Excellent advice! I'm sure your wife is a lucky woman indeed.

As to the post above, many times women feel insecure for various reasons. The media being one of the biggest. Also, between women themselves. Then there are comments thrown around that are meant as jokes, but can hit a chord with some people. For example, I read here in these boards (as a joke, I hope!) that thongs in double-digit sizes should be outlawed. Sure, it's funny at a certain level - unless you are a woman who happens to be wearing that double-digit sized thong! Some women can laugh it off, others let it build up. It just depends.

Also, when one looks at porn, the only time you see women who really are overweight it is advertised in a way that is not complimentary. Words like "plumper" or "fattie" or "porker" doesn't do much to make a woman feel comfortable who has put on a few pounds.

And it doesn't take many pounds for us. Women have a tendency to exagerate size. This is my biggest fault, personally. I hate my ass. I think it's big. Too big. Granted, it doesn't sag or anything (thank gods!), but I still think it is just too damn big! My man told me time and time again how much he liked it. I refused to believe him. One day I was joking around and told him I wanted to lipo it. (liposuction) He told me if I did, he would no longer be around. The fact is, he likes it. He pays special attention to it. And on the times when I, at first tentatively, teased him by wiggling my ass in front of him, he let me know in no uncertain terms what it did for him! It's taken me 6 months, and even though I still think my ass is too big, I've accepted the fact that he likes it. So, when I'm with him I wear clothing to accentuate my ass and I wear it proudly.

A lot of women never get to the acceptance stage with their men. After all, how many of us have heard the "joke" that when a woman asks, "Honey, do I look fat in this?" he has no way to respond? Fact is, it's more true than not! And many of us feel that our men really don't have much choice but to say they like our bodies, even though we know it can't be true.

It just takes lots of reassurance, and in my case anyway, almost an idolization of that which I'm most uncomfortable with!.

SexyChele said:

A lot of women never get to the acceptance stage with their men. After all, how many of us have heard the "joke" that when a woman asks, "Honey, do I look fat in this?" he has no way to respond? Fact is, it's more true than not! And many of us feel that our men really don't have much choice but to say they like our bodies, even though we know it can't be true.

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But thats the point Chele. I can't speak for all men in this regard, but I will state right here and now that I'd rather bed a homely woman who is comfortable with who and what she is than bed a super model who isn't comfortable with who she is.

In my mind, the best partners are those that have accepted themselves for what they are.

You claim that your butt is too big, and your man says otherwise. Instead of really accepting that fact, you've tricked yourself in saying "Well he likes it, but its still not ok." Now here comes the kicker.

If the person that loves you the most in the world is willing to love you despite any imperfections you might perceive, why should you care what the rest of the world thinks? To him you're drop dead sexy. Thats all that really should matter to you. We can't make love to the whole world, we can only really love one person at a time. So isn't the opinion of the person you love the driving force behind whether or not you feel sexy or not? And if it is, why isn't that opinion good enough for most women? Lets be honest, no one is perfect. We have scars, we have blemishes, we have pot bellies, we're ordinary people.

From a guys perspective, its incredibly frustrating when their woman doesn't think she's sexy. What she fails to understand is that while the media might be promoting rail thin supermodels, SHE is the person he wants to sleep with, the person he wants to see naked and bouncing on his dick, the person he wants to give orgasms to til she passes out. Most guys couldn't care less who is on the cover of cosmo. They couldn't care less about who is starring in the new Tom Cruise movie. Hell, we know our lover's bodies from head to toe, and we still want to see it dressed up in pretty lingerie. Imperfections and all.

Ladies, and I do mean all of you. If you would kindly remember that guys are very visually oriented. We like looking at you even if you have a scar from a c-section, or your boobs sag, or you have more pounds than the docs say you should. If your man thinks your sexy, then feel it ladies. Deep down in your gut, in your soul.

While most guys like a particular part of a woman (Tit men, ass men), they didn't marry or have a relationship with a body part. Me? I love my wife's boobs. BOOBIES!!!!! But as much as I love them and could spend hours just laying my head on them, I love my wife more. I think she's incredibly sexy and think I'm mighty lucky to have her. But like so many women she doesn't deep down believe she's sexy. And like you Chele, despite my protests to the contrary, she doesn't really believe me.

Maybe its a cultural thing. Try really believing him Chele. Forget your own image for a while and try to put yourself in his shoes for a while. You might be surprised at what you find out about yourself.

body image.
what a totally suck experience for 99.9% of women.
as females, we are bombarded with images and text about our bodies, almost from the moment of birth.

stunning pre-teens who look better than their mothers, and are now getting all the latest modelling jobs.
18 year olds, with super-flat tummies and perfect tans and teeth, swanning thro the pages of every magazine.
30-something stars who appear magically unscathed from their experience of childbirth, sans stretch-marks and minus every gram they put on during pregnancy.

it's no wonder we women feel like there's no way we can compare!
(especially when just about every man we know, mentions at least 1 celeb he's seen in a book or on a billboard or on the tv, who's 'such a hottie' that he could 'slip one to her'!)
and we're sitting right there alongside, wondering which bit of us is so bad that our man can't bring himself to say that to us?

just once i want to hear my guy breathe the words 'holy fuck, you're a hottie!' to ME.
not some abstract woman who he'll never in a million years be allowed to gaze on in r/l - ME!

and i don't want to hear it after i've gotten all upset and miserable about myself - i want to hear it every day - every time he even thinks about me - every time he gets a hard-on.

we're brought up to consider our appearance at every turn,
don't wear that, it's not flattering -
don't wear that, your a little 'hippie' in those jeans -
too much make-up, you look like a tramp -
you can see your bra-straps -
and on, and on, and on it goes.
every day.
from our mothers, our friends, our men, and every saleslady we'll ever meet.


so men, next time you're tempted to comment on that drop-dead gorgeous woman on the bill-board, turn to your lady, and tell her you're glad she's with you.

but for god's sake...
never,
ever,
tell her you're glad she's there AFTER you've just lusted over the bill-board chick.

do that, and you may as well say nothing at all.

Bobmi357 said:

If the person that loves you the most in the world is willing to love you despite any imperfections you might perceive, why should you care what the rest of the world thinks? To him you're drop dead sexy. Thats all that really should matter to you. We can't make love to the whole world, we can only really love one person at a time. So isn't the opinion of the person you love the driving force behind whether or not you feel sexy or not? And if it is, why isn't that opinion good enough for most women? Lets be honest, no one is perfect. We have scars, we have blemishes, we have pot bellies, we're ordinary people.

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I am slowly coming around to his reality, than the gods! But, for all the reasons warrior queen mentions, women battle body image all the time. Right now, yes being with him makes me feel sexy. But the relationship has gotten to the point where when I talk to him on the phone, I feel sexy. So, because I never know when he's going to get a chance to call during the day, I am wearing outfits to work that reflect that sexuality. (If in subtle ways!)

But my man is very different from men I've had relationships with in the past. He doesn't do the "swivel neck" when we are out. He doesn't find the "norm" to be all that attractive, and he isn't afraid to state that big, fake boobs are a turn off to him, or that he much more prefers a woman who has fleshy thighs to what society calls "toned". I've been with men who have done as warrior queen describes, and sometimes it really does hurt. (Especially if you've spent 2 hours getting ready and he comments more on the billboard than on you!) It is unusual and absolutely delightful to have this man in my life. A man who likes my big butt and actually prefers my face sans any makeup at all. He likes it when I take the time and effort to get dressed up, or he appreciates the fact that sometimes I just want to hang out in baggy jeans. It's kinda new to me. But I'm liking it.

But I have 43 years of conditioning to overcome. I'll get there, I'm working on it, and thankfully I've met a man who has a mountain of patience!!

BTW, this whole discussion reminds of a segment Andy Rooney once did. He was basically comparing why men use the pockets in their pants/trousers and women won't. He speculated that the reason women don't use pockets in their pants is because it causes weird shapes in a place they would rather not have weird shapes. While men didn't care that others might think they have a bulge growing out of their butt (from their wallets), women might think others think they are truly shaped that way. It was so on the mark!

Women's bodies

Women have a tendancy to think that they have an awful body especially after childbearing.

I'm 37, and I've had two kids.
Ok so now, we have two factors going on here,
1) age and what is can do.
2) pregnancies

Ok so now my body isn't what it used to be at 19 when I got married and not what it was after I had my second child at 22.

I've got some insecurities about my body but what my bf does and it's SO different that what my ex husband used to do.

He doesn't just tell me how beautiful I am, he doesn't just tell me the things he'd like to do to me (excpet when he's out of town like now)

He doesn't just vocalize what he'd "like" his intentions to be, he does them.

Guys words are great but at times we don't believe you, we feel that you're thinking "oh I need to tell her this to make her feel better, after all it's my job."

We don't want you to fullfill a "job"
We want to know that it's honest and heartfelt.
We can tell if it's just to get in our pants too. lol

Guys don't just speak the words put em to use, make it happen, be passionate and caring in all that you do and say....you might get different results.

I used to not really like sex all that much, to me it was actually a bother. (That's when I was married cuz he didn't make me feel like the goddess he proclaimed I was to him"

But NOW?? lol
Watch out guys, I'm here, and loving it.
My bf has made me feel absolutely fantastic about myself and has helped me with my sexual desires "or the lack there of in my case"
to the point that I totally enjoy the things I used to cringe my nose at and say gross to.

Guys help her to feel like the sexy woman you proclaim her to be by your actions mixed in with your words.

Romance her, or what ever it takes, just do it.
Don't just say "oh baby you're so sexy to me and I'd love to screw your brains out" while you're watching tv, that's NOT going to cut the mustard guys.
Match your passion with your words, put them into action and let her see and feel it.

It helped me out alot.

On the subject of women who think that they are ugly and who won't listen to their husbands and boyfriends who tell them otherwise:

About a year ago, my wife expressed this opinion to me for the umpteenth time.

I yelled a tirade at her at the top of my lungs, getting in her face with righteous anger. I don't remember the exact words, but the following is pretty close to the mark.

I am a man.

I am an expert on the subject of what makes a woman attractive to a man. I have spent the past 31 years studying the female form in all its varieties.

I have looked at and gawked at countless thousands of women. I have studied them in as much detail as humanly possible, constantly evaluating them as to their sexual attractiveness.

In addition, I have conducted tens of thousands of experiments over the same period of time, considering the sexual attractiveness of individual women while simultaneously engaging in sexual self-gratification.

I have also had sex with women more than 10,000 times. Yes, almost all of those times were with the same woman, but I wasn't always thinking about her in particular while having sex with her [she already knew that].

Given this vast experience and exhaustive research, I believe I am entitled to make up my own mind about what makes a woman attractive to a man.

If you really think that you have a better eye for female attractiveness to men than I do, perhaps you can explain how you came to this judgment of your own superior abilities...

Otherwise, when I tell you that you are drop dead fucking gorgeous, who the hell are you to disagree with me?

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Throughout the tirade, she stared back at me with a look of fear mixed with bewilderment and some amusement.

She thought I was angry with her. She was correct. I had been listening to the same drivel from her for more than 23 years and I was pissed.

Believe it or not, this tactic was quite effective. She realized that, perhaps, I might actually know more about the subject than she did. She even started to believe me when I told her that I liked the way she looked.

Gentlemen: sometimes you just have to let her know how you really feel...
------------------
Note: I concede that women who are either lesbian or bi-sexual certainly have grounds to claim superior expertise about the attractiveness of women to other women.

However, lesbians and bi-sexual women are not men. Therefore, I argue that even they probably do not have sufficient credentials to overrule the judgment of most men on the subject of women's attractiveness to men.

I am, however, willing to consider an exception for women who are transsexuals or whose gender is ambiguous.

First let me say... It's late and I couldn't read all of the posts. They became a bit long and I'm tired. Damn, I'm getting old!

You MUST love your wife first. She MUST love you first. Remember you must both be on the same life track. You need to know each other intimately -- NOT Sexually.

Let her know you are there for the union and not just for yourself. There is something greater than the 2 of you that you are creating. It's loving, social, financial (2 are greater than one), obviously sexual (each should accept the other) and familial (you should respect her family and she yours).

My wife and I have been married almost 7 years and I am VERY happy! I glance at times, but never itch!! (7 Year Itch -- )

Guys actually CAN accept a woman who has "slipped a bit" before or after a child b/c we all slip a bit in general. If you have made the right choice, you love the person and encourage the "UnSlipping" as long as you do it yourself!

I'm on the scale every morning and want to be the best I can be for my wife. She deserves it and hopefully I deserve the same. I try to do my part. I feel that is very important -- My wife is TRULY my equal.

I think BobMi's response is excellent -- you need to open lines of communication, even if what is being communicated isn't what the other person necessarily wants to hear.

One more thought: there are other things besides cuddling that can be taken as positive, loving attention. For example, if she works hard all day and is tired, if you help out a little more with chores around the house, or take her out to dinner if she's had a bad day, then that's another form of non-sexual love and attention.

I am an expert on the subject of what makes a woman attractive to a man. I have spent the past 31 years studying the female form in all its varieties

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Otherwise, when I tell you that you are drop dead fucking gorgeous, who the hell are you to disagree with me?

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It's not a matter of who's the expert or what ever, it's a matter of how she's feeling about herself.
Frankly if you went off like that on me, I'd walked out of the room and let you rant to your self.
Nice little show of frustration however it's not a matter of you or your expertise in the subject.

But far as we're on the subject of expertise, we women have been dealing with our bodies all our lives, so yes we have grounds to disagree with you and you don't have to be a male, bi or lesbian to know a womans body.
Frankly I know my body much better than anyone else ever will.
My life experiance with my body (a womans body) is my expertise and also talking with other women about our bodies.
So if you ask me yes women are more inclinded to know what we're talking about far as our own bodies are concerned.

huskie said:

Welcome to my world, dude

I would try this first:

First:Cut her off so to speak. I don't mean turn her down if she comes to you for sex just don't go to her TILL she comes to you. See how long that last. You can learn a lot from that.

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Yeah, you can learn a lot. For one thing you'll learn that your dick won't fall off if its not dipped every month. But other than allowing your frustration level to build, and your resentment, I do not recommend this technique.

Been there, got the t-shirt to prove it, and all I learned was the longer I held off and said nothing, the more resentful I became to the woman I love.

It all boils down to communications. If you fail to communicate, if you obstinately sit there saying "I can out last her!", you'll get angry, you'll start to resent her, little things that mean nothing will be blow out of proportion. And a good relationship can turn sour.

I tried this tactic for a while, and along the way I realized that if I didn't start talking to her, we were going to have the mother of all fights simply because I was allowing my feelings to simmer to a slow boil for too long. And when I did talk to her, I had to keep repeating to myself "Be calm, don't be angry". I had to surpress the need to be angry otherwise we would accomplish nothing by talking. Its not easy to have a calm, thoughtful discussion when you're angry. But this is one of those types of "talks" where anger serves no purpose, and can make matters worse.

So guys, you really have three choices.

a) talk to her.
b) fight and perhaps ruin the relationship.
c) go outside the relationship to find what you need and aren't getting, and in the process ruin what and your spouse took so long to build.

I'll take the first option everytime.

Very nice

Very nice and ver well spoke Bobmi357.

Not only will it build resentment in you it would her to and in her mind confirm to her that she's not what you need or want.
So furthers her path that she's already down.

TALK TO HER.
REASSURE HER.

Is that really all that hard to do?
Is it all that much of a time consumer?

All we want is for the man in our lives to talk to us, not "cut her off" or "ignore" her till she comes to you. WTF is that crap?
Hell I'd kick my man to the curb in a heart beat if he EVER tried that one.

A few random thoughts from a 27-year veteran:

If you can't find something appreciative to say about your wife every day of your life, you aren't paying attention.

I tell my wife - often - that the best thing about her body is that it's attached to her.

If you think your wife might be having a problem with body image, ask her. You might be surprised. If you're right, then maybe the two of you should start exercising together. Does she get exercise? My wife has been doing aerobics for twenty plus years and continues to be a bit round. But a year ago she added some running to her routine. She's now up to about 20 miles per week and has taken loads of roundness out of her face, shoulders and torso. The hips are coming down in size too. And she knows it, loves it, and the sex is improving with every month.

Someone earlier suggested that you treat every day like a first date (Carnus, I think - hope that's right). I couldn't have said it more succinctly.

Act as if you appreciate her, and soon you really will.

Ask her to write down the wildest sexual thoughts she has ever had - just to share. Trade similar thoughts (toning your own down if you think the truly wildest ones might frighten her) of your own. See if you can find a way to make hers come true, or some reasonable approximation.

Treat her like a goddess, and worship the ground she graces with her presence.

That's enough from me.

I'm assuming that there are no medications associated with the health issue that could be causing this. I know it's pretty obvious but I don't remember anyone mentioning it.


Others have talked about communicatiion and said it far better than I could. The important thing, I think is to listen and truly hear what she is saying if/when you have that talk. I'm very lucky that my wife responds sexually to typical romantic things like flowers, perfume, oils, bubble bath, etc.

My wife has always been hot - in her teens, 20's, 30's, 40's and now 50's. She is upset because she doesn't look like she did in her 20's anymore. I agree, but after 7 pregnancies and 30 something years I still find myself gawking at her. At times I find it frustrating and mind-boggling that she doesn't believe it, but this post has given me some good insight as to why but more importantly, that it is normal.

A couple of years ago we had one of THOSE discussions on why she didn't act sexy and why she wasn't as interested anymore. The response was the body image issue. I gave all the typical responses that I thought would do the trick and that suddenly she would see herself as the goddess I know she is. I asked her "what the hell would make you think you're not attractive." She skirted around the issue a little and then she finally told me that I didn't pinch her or goose her anymore. That I no longer put my hands between her legs for a quick feel when she was cooking or on the phone. I never just grabbed her while we were passing each other in the house and kissed her pasionatley. I'm not talking about being horny and trying to get her off, I'm talking about teasing her when we knew there was nothing we could do about it.

She was right. I don't remember stoping it but the fact was that I was contributing to her misguided feelings. I felt horrible that my actions (or inactions in this case) was causing her to feel that she wasn't attractive. I probably stopped because she would always tell me to stop groping or pawing at her. While I'm sure it was annoying at times, the fact was, that she liked me doing these things and it made her feel sexy. It also helped her feel sexy and respond when I made my move. I should have realized that. We a;ll know that SEXY is an attitude, a state of mind.

My suggestion is to look at what you might be doing or not doing. Not just from your eyes but from hers as well. Do it in conjunction with talking to her because if you're like me, you probably can't come up with it by yourself.

Good luck and as Jimmy Valvano said "don't give up, don't ever give up".

Thank you, HotAzLady69. This is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for.

HotAzLady69 said:

It's not a matter of who's the expert or what ever, it's a matter of how she's feeling about herself.

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*and* it's a matter of how he feels about *her*. In a marriage, both spouses’ feelings are important. They feed off of each other.

My feelings can have a dramatic effect on my wife's feelings and vice versa.

Frankly if you went off like that on me, I'd walked out of the room and let you rant to your self.

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True. I was able to rant like this because the two of us have been living with each other for a couple of decades and we're comfortable blowing off steam with each other.

Each person has to know the amount of pathos that is effective with his or her spouse.

Nice little show of frustration however it's not a matter of you or your expertise in the subject.

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Of course it isn't a matter of expertise. I was being ironic and using hyperbole. I was saying something in an absurd and ridiculous way in order to get my point across.

The cognitive dissonance allowed me to penetrate the wall of emotion that I could not otherwise penetrate.

The "expertise" thing is a way of expressing a basic truth: that the way other people see us is very different from the way we see ourselves.

If I had simply said "you're truly beautiful in my eyes." It would have been accurate and would have had very little effect.

Quite often, she used to express her displeasure with her own self-image by projecting those feelings onto me and telling me how I "really" felt about her. This is quite common in long term relationships where one partner or the other looses perspective on the fact that the other doesn't have the same feelings.

But far as we're on the subject of expertise, we women have been dealing with our bodies all our lives, so yes we have grounds to disagree with you and you don't have to be a male, bi or lesbian to know a woman’s body.

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I really annoyed you, didn't I? Now you understand how I (and other men) feel.

Yes, what you're saying is true in some ways.

However the fact that I'm not really as much of an expert as I said I was isn't the point. I may not have been *right*, but that's how I *felt*.

Frankly I know my body much better than anyone else ever will.

My life experience with my body (a woman’s body) is my expertise and also talking with other women about our bodies.

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Ah, but I was talking about "female attractiveness to men". You can look at your body all of your life and you can talk to every woman on the planet and you will still never know what it is like to perceive your body with a set of male eyes feeding to a male brain.

So if you ask me yes women are more inclined to know what we're talking about as far as our own bodies are concerned.

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That's absolutely true. You are experts on your own bodies, but you are *not* experts on the *perception* of your bodies from a *male* perspective.

It's one thing for a woman to feel that she is ugly. It is quite another for her to tell her husband or BF that *he* thinks she is ugly and that she isn't *desirable to him*.

In other words, you have a right to your opinion of yourself, but you don't have the right to overrule my opinion of you and tell me how I *should* or *really do* feel about you.

You are welcome to try to change my feelings but I will be the final arbiter of whether or not you *have* changed them.

[You probably don't care how *I* feel about *you* but it was easier to word that in the first person].

My purpose in my original post was twofold:

1. To show women the kind of frustration that men feel in these situations. A woman tells us that she feels ugly *and* that she *knows* that if we say otherwise we are either lying (to make her feel better) or don't know what we are talking about.

This is a very hurtful and cruel thing for a woman to do to a man: to tell him that he is a liar or an idiot.

2. To help men to understand that speaking logically and accurately about a woman's beauty is not helpful. In fact, using a factually inaccurate, but emotionally accurate statement can often allow a man to reach that part of a woman that he needs to reach. Logical argument often does not resolve emotional issues.

These situations are clashes of perceptions. She feels ugly and she assumes that that means that *he thinks* she is ugly.

It does not help for him to argue the case directly, i.e. to try to convince her that she is beautiful. Attempting to change her feelings about herself through logical explanation is unlikely to succeed.

What he has to do is to show her that *he feels* she is beautiful. He has to communicate his positive feelings for her and to envelope her in them. The intensity of those feelings is much more important than their validity. Communicating his feelings is much more likely to affect her feelings than a direct approach.

Ok I can see where you're comming from a little easier now.

HOWEVER.

I really annoyed you, didn't I? Now you understand how I (and other men) feel.

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No you did not annoy me I was trying to figure out exactly where you were comming from so said my thoughts and waited for your reply.

Thank you

What he has to do is to show her that *he feels* she is beautiful. He has to communicate his positive feelings for her and to envelope her in them. The intensity of those feelings is much more important than their validity. Communicating his feelings is much more likely to affect her feelings than a direct approach.

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That's what I was trying to get across in an earlier post concerning this matter.

Communications is the most important factor in a relationship if it's to grow into something fantastic.

With talking for many many hrs and sometime debating and other times down right arguing my bf and I have been able to grow alot together and he's helped me alot in this same instance where I didn't feel that I was attractive enough or sexy enough.
But I never once that I can think of told him that's what he thinks or see's.
I have however said I don't see what he see's in me physically and I don't understand it but as long as he's happy with me that's fine...I'll strive to make myself feel better such as my arobics and physical activities that I do.

Thank you janus40s for helping me see what the male goes through in this type of situation.