A question and please be honest in your answers

Alright Lit fans and friends here's my story,

I've been married for 10 years to a guy that in all honesty I've had my ups and downs with. We've been thru a good bit and in the end we think we're better together then apart.
Recently here we've been going thru a pretty rocky patch that's been lasting for several months. We've had a lot of external stuff going on outside the 2 of us, having to move from what was essentially the hubby's childhood home, dealing with a third difficult and totally unplanned pregnancy and then some complications upon our daughters arrival, changes in work and school for both of us that have sent our schedules into an upheaval of sorts, personal health problems on my part (mostly of a reproductive nature) and the always dastardly financial problems. As a result the hubby and I have been distant with each other to say the least and almost become more like room-mates then husband and wife.
My sex drive has gone into the toilet, partly as a result of being pregnant, new mommyhood, having a tubal etc. etc. and sex has been infrequent to say the least and less then exciting when it has happened. In addittion to my sex drive being in the shitter, I've been tired as hell due to my schedule and in my opinion (hubby has not even hinted anything to this effect) I look like homemade shit! Now I don't think I'm a beauty queen by any standards but lately I've really been down on my own appearance. No matter what I do to try and fix myself up I just think I look boring and homely. Now then, knowing how things are in the house my husband has turned not suprisingly to porn for a little relief, amusement, whatever. I've looked at his collection and the women there are totally unlike my " type", thinner, better boobs, longer hair, IMO prettier. He has quite a collection too, folders of these thin, pretty, perky chested creatures who all look as if they've never even been on a maternity ward much less a delivery room.
So here's my ass kicker and where the fine advice of you folks comes in...knew I'd get to it eventually dincha?
I'm starting to feel, honestly feel, that my husband is no longer attracted to me physically. I do believe he still cares for me, otherwise he would have taken off months ago and not stuck around through some of this shit we're going through; but I just don't think I'm attractive to him anymore, or that - and I know how stupid this is going to sound- he's finally seeing me as mommy, housewife material and that's not what he's looking for as a turn on. If I fix myself up it goes unnoticed but he's quick to point out how sexy another woman is or some quality he finds attractive about her.
I've always been a big believer in the feel sexy , be sexy theory and now even when I try to sex myself up to get in the mood I find myself failing.

What should I do? It's not as if I can honestly make some huge change to my appearance, sexuality, etc. I am what I am and in my head that's no longer what I think my spouse is excited, or aroused by.
Help! Gimme some words of wisdom here my fellow litsters!

Oh yeah and sorry about the long rambling post...I do that when I'm stressed!

you need to make some time available for the two of you to have complete privacy (get a babysitter, farm the kids to mum, whatever...) and then you should tell him how you feel.
i mean really tell him.
after so much history together, there shouldn't be anything that you both can't talk about, so bring it up and into the open.
let him know that this is how you are feeling at this time, and that you'd like his help to make things different.
be non-threatening...... what i mean is, don't open the conversation by asking why he feels the need to perve on porno pics of stunning chicky-babes.......... but do make him aware that because of the mind-set you are in right now, seeing those pictures adds to your feelings.

but get this issue put on the table, and you may find that the reason for his seeming lack of desire has less to do with how you look, and more to do with him thingking that you need more recovery from the baby etc., and that he has been stepping back to give you that space.

but you won't know if you don't ask.

warrior queen said:

but get this issue put on the table, and you may find that the reason for his seeming lack of desire has less to do with how you look, and more to do with him thingking that you need more recovery from the baby etc., and that he has been stepping back to give you that space.

but you won't know if you don't ask.

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This is such an important point. We all make assumptions and draw inferences that are wrong every day. And it's so easy for certain assumptions to become part of the fabric of a relationship that it's scary.

As for the distinction you draw, Mskey, between your own body type and the pictures your husband is collecting, I think it's worth pointing out that his collection is representative of what's out there. Sure, there are places to find pictures of larger, rounder women but in my experience many of those sites cater to extreme preferences. So chances are it's not so much that he is starting to prefer a different body type but that he is collecting pictures from what's available.

WQ is also right to advise you to start talking about this. And the sooner the better. Good luck and keep us posted.

Poof

and as always, bobmi gives a great answer from the male perspective, and his advice should definately be heeded.

excellent post, bobmi.

midwestyankee said:

As for the distinction you draw, Mskey, between your own body type and the pictures your husband is collecting, I think it's worth pointing out that his collection is representative of what's out there. Sure, there are places to find pictures of larger, rounder women but in my experience many of those sites cater to extreme preferences. So chances are it's not so much that he is starting to prefer a different body type but that he is collecting pictures from what's available.

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This was my first thought when I read the post. The VAST majority of porn out there is nothing but plastic perfection that in no way represents reality. So I agree with midwestyankee...more than likely, hubby isn't looking for those women in particular...it's just what you get when you surf your average porn site.

Someting like this happened to me. Right after I had my daughter, my ex-husband did the same thing your husband is doing. I went through a really rough time, with complications and such, like you. But even months later, he was treating me more like a friend than a lover, and checking out everything that had curves. Quite frankly, it made me feel like shit. Nothing makes you feel LESS sexy than your man treating you along the lines of his college roommate. *sigh*

At the time we didn't really talk about it...one day his attitude just changed, and that was it, our marriage was back. (We divorced later for other reasons.) So he had a perspective you might like to hear.

He said his attraction to me moved in stages. That he was always attracted, but sometimes that attraction took the form of more affection than sexual attraction...and his big example was right after I had my daughter. He saw me go through hell with complications, he worried all through the labor and delivery was terrifying...and it made him see me in a different light. It wasn't that he wasn't attracted to me, because he was. But he felt more protective of me, more nurturing, and more affectionate than plain ole horny. He would rather have held my hand and brushed my hair than had sex.

I guess to put it simply: he still felt desire, but it took another form, one that was appropriate to what we were going through at the time.

I hope that makes sense...

And finally, I agree wholeheartedly that talking about it is what you HAVE to do. And when you do talk about it, don't be confrontational...but at the same time, don't downplay how you feel. This is a very serious issue for you, so whatever you do, don't make it seem like it is just something you have been thinking about in passing. Tell him the truth about how often you think of it, how much it bothers you...maybe writing it all down and reading over it several times would help to get what you want to say in order. And if you falter during your talk and you can't seem to say what you need to say, handing him what you wrote is an option.

I also want to say...I have followed your posts on the board for a long while now, and I know you and your husband have come through rocky spots before. If your posts are any indication, you are both very devoted and capable of working through anything. Even this.

Take care, and please...we want to know how things go. We care!

S.

warrior queen said:

and as always, bobmi gives a great answer from the male perspective, and his advice should definately be heeded.

excellent post, bobmi.

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Danke

I should apologize for the rant however. Its just something that I am living though now and really frustrates me at times.

Mskey said:

In addittion to my sex drive being in the shitter, I've been tired as hell due to my schedule and in my opinion (hubby has not even hinted anything to this effect) I look like homemade shit! Now I don't think I'm a beauty queen by any standards but lately I've really been down on my own appearance. No matter what I do to try and fix myself up I just think I look boring and homely.

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I think this part speaks volumes. I agree that it is important to discuss your feelings with your husband, and I think all of us women need to commit Bobmi's post to memory (well, perhaps the gist of it?), but this part just jumped out at me.

I know I go through periods where I feel that I look terrible. My hair just does what it wants. I can't fit into my jeans - or anything else for that matter! My make up looks too heavy - or not heavy enough. I feel like a big slug. No, in fact, a slug is better looking!

And then I wonder why no one compliments me. 'Duh!

I'm in a bit of a rush, but you have been such a big help to all here I just felt the need to respond. I think you need to find the root of the feeling of being unattractive. And, to be honest, how many unattractive porn queens have we seen??

If you two have gotten through some bad times before, I have a feeling you will get through this as well. Good luck!

Bobmi357 said:

Danke

I should apologize for the rant however. Its just something that I am living though now and really frustrates me at times.

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This is a no-apology zone, bobmi. Your rant spoke volumes.

In addition to what others have said here, it sounds like you may be suffering from a bit of post-partum depression, or with all the other drastic changes in your life, possibly a bout of just regular old-fashioned depression.

You might want to think about talking to a counselor as well as having that discussion with your husband. It never hurts to have an objective person to offer ideas on how to improve your opinion of yourself and how to adjust to all the changes you've been through.

And it might not hurt to remember that all those porn women aren't perfect--they're airbrushed to look that way.

Hi Mskey.....

I hope things are getting a little better......my boyfriend loves to look at porn and he does get off sometimes while he is looking....A couple of months ago he took some pictures of me and I found them on the pc with his other pics.....and they were first.......so now he looks at me when im not around......I wonder if other women opened up and let their mates take pics of them.....what would happen.....

Also remember.......if you are on the pc looking for porn to help you are you going to look for pics of your husband or are you going to look at the males in the porn pics........myself I look for guys that look like Brad Pitt......(my boyfriend doesnt look anything like Brad).......
You need to realize that the pics have nothing to do with your situation.....and that you feel bad about yourself and are probably a litte postpartum and feeling very negative......so just try to deal with the main issues and the rest will take care of themselves.......
I am going to be 50 next month and when I saw the pics of the young girls I thought i would die......All I could think about is that my boyfriend was tired of the old me and wanted someone fresh and young.......that was me talking .....not him......
Also remember that men are like young boys when we are around.....they dont really pay attention to how we look.....all they know is that they got to see a breast or touch a breast or see a pussy or touch......and that is very basic .....but to most guys that is the truth.......
You are a gorgeous person.....so let that part of you out.....

Good luck

sxylegs said:

Also remember that men are like young boys when we are around.....they dont really pay attention to how we look.....all they know is that they got to see a breast or touch a breast or see a pussy or touch......and that is very basic .....but to most guys that is the truth.......
You are a gorgeous person.....so let that part of you out.....

Good luck

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Mskey, there is a universal truth in what sxylegs just said. The most beautiful woman in the world is the one who just said, "Yes, please make love to me."

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have always believed that the best feature of my wife's body is that it is attached to her. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if your husband feels the same way.

midwestyankee said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have always believed that the best feature of my wife's body is that it is attached to her. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if your husband feels the same way.

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THAT just has to make you smile when you read it.

S.

THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU GUYS!

And why I put things like this out here, to get other impartial views to my own jaded ones!

First and foremost to Bobmi~

I cannot thank you enough for putting a male voice to this and so much of what you say rings true. My husband and I have been together since we were 16 and 18 respectively. Now I'm 30 and he just turned 32. In my brain I think part of me has feared that as I moved further and further away from the 16 y/o, perfect size 4 he got to deflower that I would be somehow less attractive to him. I'm pretty far removed from that now. At 30 and a not so perfect size 12, who's once perky boobs do now in fact defy the supportive efforts of all Victorias Secrets, whose ass perhaps now fills those jeans out in a very non J-lo fashion and who most days is doing good to run a comb thru the mop on her head and find a washrag that isn't doing double duty as a spit-up cloth to wash her face...well I have a really hard time seeing what once attracted him to me I still have to offer. When I feel that way and then see his folders filled with nubile bodies my brain automatically assumes the worst. I hadn't even thought of it from the perspective you gave but thinking on it I can say ...yuppp hubby is VERY visual in how he's stimulated!

I can also see the very sane logic in your rant. I know a huge part of why I don't want sex right now has alot to do with how miserably unattractive I find myself. Following the logic of if I think I look like shit what must he think is as you say a gauranteed mood killer. I don't feel sexy so I don't act sexy, so I don't send hubby the right signals and he backs even further away not wanting to seem like a total caveman bitching about his lack of pussy. I take that as rejection and pooof...instant problem! You are an amazingly wise and honest guy Bob and I thank you for sharing more then you know.

To the ladies...I know I must talk this out w/ him now I just need to find a way to do it w/o being all emotional and squirrley about it. Suggestions...guys pitch in too!

Yankee... ty for your words as well...a mans perspective always makes me take the time to look at the other side more objectively.

I'm off for food now, but I wanted to say TY./..TY...TY you guys have been amazing -
as always!

Frankly I hate masturbating to porn. I feel guilty afterwards, I feel like I've done something wrong in my relationship and have to resort to jerking off when the person I want the most in the world is only a short distance away from me. I feel like I have failed somehow, disappointing myself, and the woman I love. It makes me feel guilty and perhaps even a little angry because the sex in the relationship has gotten to the point of where I even feel the need to masturbate. When our sex life was good, I never felt any need to masturbate. Even now I try to fight the urge to masturbate because of how I will feel afterwards.

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I was totally with you until you went here. Feel guilty after masturbating? It's HEALTHY to mastubate, even if you're having sex 20 times a day! I can cite a variety of professional opinions to support this, but it would be getting off-topic. And come on, I certainly don't think about my wife when I have a porno spinning on the DVD player!

Anyway, MSKey, we ALL go through ups and downs and you should not feel bad or judge yourself harshly. As you mentioned, you have so much else going on that it amazes me that you still consider the sexual aspect important. As Bobmi said earlier, I'm sure your husband would tell you you are the sexiest creature alive if you ask him to. And there's NO shame in asking! We men (ok, ok, in MY case) need to be told directly sometimes, as we aren't the most observant species on the planet. TELL him you want a massage. TELL him you want to suck his cock. TELL him you want him to eat your pussy for an hour! TELL him you're feeling pressure from all of life's burdens and you need to take a couple of days at a spa to rejuvinate.

And NEVER think you're alone in all this. You are beautiful. You are warm. You are sexy. You are human. Sounds like a solid relationship encountering some rough seas on the way to the promised land to me.

Re: THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU GUYS!

poof

poof

Something I still have to come to grips with.

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LOL

Re: Re: THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU GUYS!

Bobmi357 said:

Ms,
Its not wisdom, nor honesty. Its just that I am walking in your husband's shoes. I'd give my left testicle, my right arm and 20 pounds of flesh to find a sucessful way of breaking this viscious cycle that we're in. That you're in as well.

I don't know about your husband not wanting to seem a caveman, but you're dead on the mark as far as I am concerned. I've backed way off and it hurts. Its not good for us as a couple, its not good for us as individuals. Sigh... here comes another rant.....

<begin rant>
The problem for us guys is that it really becomes confusing. Hubby backs off thinking he doesn't want to sound like he's complaining about the lack of sex, or perhaps he just doesn't want to appear like he's just thinking of her in terms of sex. Or maybe he's backed off thinking she needs a break and thinks he's doing her a favor. Meanwhile she's think "He doesn't want me anymore? He doesn't find me attractive? He doesn't love me?", which only makes the wife's self image degrade even further.

Then somewhere along the way, the wife will start complaining about a lack of intimacy because hubby has backed off, but at that point, every time he holds her, he gets aroused, which starts making her think all he wants from her is sex, so he backs off again. Which brings the intimacy complaint out again. And the cycle starts all over again.

You girls need to remember, especially in the cases of a suddenly low sex drive, that if your asking your guy to be more intimate and you're not having sex regularily, he's going to get turned on by the least gesture on your part. We can't help it, you are soft in all the right places, feel good, smell nice, taste wonderful.... heck I'm getting a woody just sitting here thinking about the things I like about my wife.

From a male perspective the person we thought we knew the best, our friend, companion and lover, has suddenly and inexplicably become someone else. Someone we don't know. Suddenly we do not know how to "turn on" our mate, none of the old tricks work, nothing new seems to work, and whats worse, our mates seem almost to resist our efforts. Confusing? HELL YES!, hurtful? yeah, it does hurt. There was a time when she wanted me, wanted me as much as I wanted her. To think that might be gone and never return is too painful to even consider.
<end rant>

Its a bad cycle, its a mean and painful cycle. It can even be a relationship killing cycle. It doesn't matter which spouse is the one that initiated it, both get sucked into it, both unknowingly contribute to it.

I wish I could say there is an easy solution, if there is, I haven't found it as yet. Discussing the problem has helped, but it really hasn't fixed the problem. There is a barrier that hass been put up that I simply cannot breach. She doesn't feel sexy, and nothing done on my part can make her feel something if she doesn't believe it herself.

Talking helps relieve some of the more nastier emotions, it helps keep the relationship on an even keel, but it really doesn't do anything in regard to breaking that cycle. And even with the discussions, it can't go on forever. Somehow somewhere a solution has to be found that is acceptable to both parties.

Unfortunately (in my opinion), the cycle can only be broken by the one that started it. If you, Ms, start initiating sex more often, then he'll stop backing off, initimacy will return and the relationship gets back on track. The problem is that you, need to get it into your mind and really believe, he wants you, he needs you, he desires you. Not some image on a computer, or in a magazine or video tape. YOU. In effect, you have to realize that your own image of yourself has no bearing on how your husband sees you. What you perceive as old, saggy and unattractive, he simply doesn't see.

Perhaps its a good thing that wives can see themselves differently than how the husbands percieve them. If my wife saw herself as I see her, we'd still be screwing like bunnies and never get any work done. Wives may not derive their self image from their husband's point of view, but why do they not question their own negative image when the husband is providing such positive views is beyond me. You would think that maybe, just maybe your concept of yourself might be wrong if the most important person in your life tells you so in words and in actions? How can you possibly unattractive when he still can't keep his hands off you?

I'm not going to tell you to get on a diet and get back into that size 4. That isn't you, the you of today, wife, lover and mother isn't that 16yr old. There are plenty of oversized women that are downright beautiful because of who they are. NOT WHAT THEY ARE. I won't point fingers or name names, but this board is full of "full figured" women that are very very sexy. The only difference between you and them is attitude and confidence in ones self.

Despite your negative self image, your husband sees you as you really are. Its still your loving touch he craves. Its your caress he wants, and needs. That 16yr old might be hot and willing, but its a touch that lacks the emotional connection you now share with your husband.

Ladies, I will be blunt here. Most mature men (emotionally mature that is) would rather make love to someone that they love, and are loved in return, than to someone they barely know anything about. Personally I don't even think I could get a hardon with someone I don't know.

Whew, well you got me typing up a storm again here. This seems to be a topic which frequently reappears, maybe someone should recreate this under a title of "Putting the LUST back into LOVE".

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Bobmi,

I congratulate you on your perception of this problem and the clarity with which you express it.

As a 30 plus year veteran of marriage to one woman, I have been to this place you describe many times over the years.

The problem is exacerbated because it is not normal practice for couples to discuss these sexual differences. Unfortunately the tendency seems to be to take it as a rejection but it seldom is. Then your build your own paranoia around it.
Sex makes guys crazy and a lack of it makes them crazier.

There will always be variation in libidos over time for a number of reasons but, even when I have been in a severe drought stage, I have never wanted to be with anyone else sexually.
Sure, men appreciate a nice body. We are programmed to do so but, understand that it is absolutely no reflection on her or her position in his life.

MsKey, Talk this out.
And more importantly, take time to make yourself important in your own life. As a housewife, it is easy to lose your identity and with it, your self esteem. Take this back with both hands and be the person you want to be. Make time for yourself.
Life will take on a whole new perspective and a bolder, happier you will reap the rewards. MrKey will be happier too

I completely agree that it sounds like you could have some post partum depression. If so, a counselor would help, but you should really talk to your OB. PPD is largely hormonal and can be treated. Sometimes it's as simple as stopping breast feeding, if you are doing that. Your hormone levels can't even begin to return to normal while you are lactating.

I also strongly agree with the advice that you talk honestly with your husband about all these things. However, you need to approach it in such a way that you don't put him on the defensive, as if you are accusing him of some kind of wrongdoing. Make clear that you need to let him know how what he is doing is affecting you emotionally, even though it is completely innocent.

Men and women tend to have nearly opposite reactions to the illness or death of a newborn. While the mother wants to have her world revolve around the issue, the father wants to pretend it never happened. This frequently causes resentment that can wind up splitting a couple up if they don't confront it head on.

Good luck with all this. I'm thinking of you.

This might not be the popular opinion but...

If the porn upsets you, and you express this, why wouldn't your husband get rid of it?

Perhaps I'm sensitive to it (my ex preferred porn to me, and always compared me to it, hence why he's my ex), but that's my thought.

I'm so glad my boyfriend isn't into porn. If he needs "stimulation" when I'm not around, he has a vivid imagination, and doesn't require porn. Of course, with his low sex drive, that's rare.

I could NOT live with the porn issues again. I'd be out of there in 30 seconds...

Anyhow...the point is, your husband should RESPECT you enough to NOT look at the porn (or at least not get caught with it) when you're feeling this way. For goddess sake, you're the mother of his child!

*feels feminist pagan rant coming on*

First just talk to him about it. Let him know after the baby and all you feel like dog doodie...I dont think there is a porno babe or supermodel alive who, after all you have gone through, would look, in their opinion, all that pleasant. They are made up, air brushed...even THEy dont look like that. And one day their time will come where they too will have a few strech marks and some bags under their eyes cuz life is a little hectic.

Make time for you two...see a counselor..Id say for yourself first and with your hubby also.

I wish I had more wisdom for you...alas I am unmarried and without children so all I can do is sympathize. I wish you luck. Your a beautiful woman for just having his kids.

Mskey, repeat after me...

HOW TO make things better -

I will NOT follow Dark's advice. I will NOT follow dark's advice. I will NOT follow Dark's advice.

Take away a man's sex AND his porn and I'll show you a husband who's heading out the door or on his way to an affair. Vivid imagination my foot Dark - your dude just aint telling you he's got porn because you've made such a big issue of it. Puh-leeeze.

freddyandeddy said:

I will NOT follow Dark's advice. I will NOT follow dark's advice. I will NOT follow Dark's advice.

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I'm going to agree with FreddyandEddy on this one. But I'll also ask, if you find porn so offensive, why are you on what is afterall, a porn website?

I think there's already a lot of great advice on this thread.

The only two things I'd add are:

Get out and get some exercise. Nothing will improve your outlook like a little physical activity. If you can't afford a gym membership, find a group that does Tai Chi in the park, or have hubby fix up that bike in the garage, or find a walking buddy. The main thing is to set aside some time for yourself to it consistently. Don't do it expecting to drop two dress sizes, do it because it makes you feel better and more energetic. I know it's really hard to do when you're depressed, but it can change your entire outlook.

The other thing is about porn from a guy's perspective. My porn choices are driven more by a desire for variety than anything else. Some guys always go for tall blondes, and have since jr. high. For me, it's bobby soxers one week, mom's with dildos the next, Indian women the week after that. Does that mean I'm not attracted to my SO? Of course not. In fact I'd feel a little weird jacking off to a picture that looked a lot like her, but wasn't. I'd kind of feel like I'm cheating on her, if you know what I mean.

Furthermore, I don't really fantasize about the women in the pictures, as someone said earlier, they're just pixels. I'll gladly pop looking a picture of Jennifer Anniston, but I don't fantasize about being her bellhop and getting a really great tip, or something. I only fantasize about women I've met or had some personal interaction with, but again, that may just be me.

Some women feel very strongly about their men not "needing" porn when they're around. I respect that, but it's like me saying I don't want a woman who "needs" romance novels, or "needs" TV for that matter. I'm secure enough to survive the competition. If she wants to ogle well-hung guys with wash-board abs while she diddles herself unconscious, that's great. If either of us withdrawls from intimacy because of porn, then it's a problem. But my guess is, in that case, the problem goes deeper than porn.

Just my two-bit's worth.