New spins

[BobbyBrandt]

I avoided the mirror thing, perhaps paradoxically in a story subtitled "The Lady of Mirrors", by having the narrator see a painting of his ancestor and his hostess's (supposed) ancestor:

Which is subverted later on:

I believe that I have done the mirror assessment one time:

"Katie picked up her discarded panties and dropped them into the laundry hamper as she walked into the master bathroom. While waiting for the water in the shower to warm, she stood in front of the vanity and ran her fingers through her hair. She watched as her arm motions made her firm breasts rise slightly. This caused her to contemplate when the last time was that she had performed a self-examination of her breasts, so she decided to do one while she was soaped up in the shower. Katie stepped into the large walk-in shower and lowered her head under the refreshingly warm stream of water."

When any specific details on my characters are described, it is typically done through how others view them in their minds, and frequently with generalities only (girl next door cute, ruggedly handsome, tomboyish, etc.) that also help establish hints about their perceived personas by the person describing them.

 

[FrancesScott]

Read @MelissaBaby's Ranger Ramona and tell me that we are just writing porn. I mean most of us are, but it's really dismissive to lump everything together just because it's posted here.

I have read it, and much of her other work. I think we agree on its quality. I believe the problem is you seeing ‘porn’ as a pejorative. I don’t, same as I don’t see ‘slut’ as a pejorative.

As I say, porn can be literary.

 

[FrancesScott]

I think we all need to step back here. We are writing porn. It might be porn that tends to the literary end of the spectrum, or porn that is just porn.

Porn is stuffed full () of tropes. As writers we are maybe better served by embracing at least some of them, occasionally subverting one or two, and instead saving our creative energies for other aspects of our writing.

Option 1

Zero tropes + lumpen writing with no plot and cardboard characters.

Option 2

A few tropes + lucid writing, a captivating plot, and characters the reader cares about.

I vote #2 every time.

To summarize this. Originality in scenarios is overrated. Some originality in plot and characters is highly desirable.

 

[FrancesScott]

I agree, but in striving too hard for originality, we also potentially alienate readers. I think I may have a little experience with that!

To build on this. While us writerly types might blush at the use of cliches and tropes in our work. They can be comforting and welcomed by readers. They can anchor their experience. With no familiar elements, people may view a work as too jarring.

 

[THBGato]

To summarize this. Originality in scenarios is overrated. Some originality in plot and characters is highly desirable.

I'd say it's the other way around. Especially given that it's basically impossible to be original in terms of plot. Though you might be right about characters.

 

[FrancesScott]

I'd say it's the other way around. Especially given that it's basically impossible to be original in terms of plot. Though you might be right about characters.

On plot, it depends on your level of abstraction, surely. Maybe the overall shape is a hero’s journey or whatever, but the details can be more original.

 

[THBGato]

but the details can be more original.

Wouldn't the details be synonymous with scenarios?

 

[StillStunned]

We should develop a classification of the types of the erotic tale and erotic character archetypes. And then we could totally obnoxious in the comments. "I like what you did with Type 73 ("The Well-Hung Son") and how you combined it with Type 24 ("Last Chance for Sex"), but the archetypes of the Passive Nerd and the Unsatisfied Wife frankly felt flat, and the attempted twist with Type 7a ("Was It All A Dream?") shows that you lack conviction in your own work."

 

[THBGato]

We should develop a classification of the types of the erotic tale and erotic character archetypes. And then we could totally obnoxious in the comments. "I like what you did with Type 73 ("The Well-Hung Son") and how you combined it with Type 24 ("Last Chance for Sex"), but the archetypes of the Passive Nerd and the Unsatisfied Wife frankly felt flat, and the attempted twist with Type 7a ("Was It All A Dream?") shows that you lack conviction in your own work."

I bet it's been done. I bet there's a classification out there, like there is for folk songs.

 

[StillStunned]

I bet it's been done. I bet there's a classification out there, like there is for folk songs.

I wonder how much of the folk songs classification could be used for erotic fiction...?

 

[AlexBailey]

Clichés are impossible to avoid in writing, and perhaps even more so in erotica. If you want to describe your POV character, there are only so many ways to do it: admiring themselves in a mirror, summing up their physical characteristics in a conversation, seeing a "Wanted" poster for themselves on the wall of the police station. To get the mother and son in bed together, you're pretty much limited to "oh no, there's only one bed in this hotel room!" or something equally contrived. The voyeur gets lucky because the new neighbour hasn't put up curtains yet. And so on.

Of course a good writer can take any of these clichés and turn it into a good story without even trying to disguise what they're doing. But even then, there's probably a limit to how many times you can do it before you get bored.

So here's a thread dedicated to taking an old cliché and giving it a new spin. Not avoiding it - that can become contrived itself if you're trying too hard - but the same cliché but with a breath of fresh air to brighten it up.

So many things happen in real life that touch on cliche but still have their own unique details.

The open curtains with a neighbor is another trope I’ve come across in real life.

The first apartment I rented with a girlfriend was in deep redwoods with big bedroom windows looking across a ravine right into a neighbors bedroom windows. We both had curtains, but neither of us drew them. The neighbors were usually only there on weekends and just like us, they slept naked too. Many times we would wake up and wave to each other. We would often see them having sex and they would sometimes watch us. The ravine made it so we had access from separate roads so we never met as neighbors, but one time we ran into them having breakfast at a local café. At first none of us could say a word - we were all laughing and grinning too hard but eventually, we sat down and talked. My girlfriend and I were 19 and 20 at the time. The other couple were swingers and in their early 30s. Unfortunately, my girlfriend wasn’t ready for that sort of thing at the time, but I’ve thought about the possibilities for years.

If it had become a thing it would have been fun and quirky. It’s easy to imagine lots of different ways it could unfold.

 

[FrancesScott]

Wouldn't the details be synonymous with scenarios?

I guess this is playing with words. By scenarios I mean “mom sitting on son’s lap in the car” (), by details of plot, I mean why they were in the car, where were they going, why were there not enough seats, what happens when she feels his erection (again ) etc.?

 

[Bamagan]

We should develop a classification of the types of the erotic tale and erotic character archetypes. And then we could totally obnoxious in the comments. "I like what you did with Type 73 ("The Well-Hung Son") and how you combined it with Type 24 ("Last Chance for Sex"), but the archetypes of the Passive Nerd and the Unsatisfied Wife frankly felt flat, and the attempted twist with Type 7a ("Was It All A Dream?") shows that you lack conviction in your own work."

Be careful! Down this path lies the occluded province of the shadowy cabal of reviewers like stac-person.

 

[FrancesScott]

LoTR is suffused with sceanrios from Norse sagas to latter day melodramas.

- the meek shall inherit the precious
- the hidden heir to the throne
- Aragorn and Arwen’s forbidden love
- the two brothers each facing the same test, one fails one prevails
- the old King shaking off age to ride to glory and death

I could go on all day.

But LoTR is seen as a highly original piece of work.

 

[FrancesScott]

Shakespeare is full of tropes. And he often borrows ideas or characters from other stories. His genius is in how he borrowed and blended that with novel ideas, or new takes on old ones.

 

[Bamagan]

LoTR is suffused with sceanrios from Norse sagas to latter day melodramas.

- the meek shall inherit the precious
- the hidden heir to the throne
- Aragorn and Arwen’s forbidden love
- the two brothers each facing the same test, one fails one prevails
- the old King shaking off age to ride to glory and death

I could go on all day.

But LoTR is seen as a highly original piece of work.

The real forbidden love was Legolas and Gimli sailing off into the sunset together. #Gegolas

 

[FrancesScott]

The real forbidden love was Legolas and Gimli sailing off into the sunset together. #Gegolas

I guess Gimili had no need to kneel down either… though maybe the beard might have tickled.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I thought the forbidden fruit was an apple?

 

[FrancesScott]

I thought the forbidden fruit was an apple?

Nah! It’s an eggplant

 

[HordHolm]

My first offering: the mirror.

How about, instead of standing passively in front of the mirror, the character catches a glimpse of their reflection in the tall glass window opposite as they come down the stairs? You can break up the static scene with motion, and add an element of uncertainty because it's not a perfect reflection. Or a series of smaller mirrors arrayed along the wall, to create the opportunity to describe separate features one by one.

My favourite twist on this is the shop window. I've only used it once, though I've wanted to use it in every...damn...story. Because let's be honest - we all do it, checking ourselves out in the window as we pass by.

 

[StillStunned]

Nah! It’s an eggplant

Bonus points for the *aubergine* actually being a fruit.

My favourite twist on this is the shop window. I've only used it once, though I've wanted to use it in every...damn...story. Because let's be honest - we all do it, checking ourselves out in the window as we pass by.

Nice one. Offers potential twists. Someone is watching the character from inside the shop. Or the character realises that it's not their own face they see, but someone inside.

Although in middle age the only person I see in windows as I pass by is my dad. It's frightening how often he's looking back at me from reflecting surfaces.

 

[NotWise]

I probably disagree with some of what's been said above, but I'm not going through it to pick nits.

I often color outside the lines. It's to test my originality and my ability to keep people interested without leaning on the mundane. I do it mostly with characters rather than plots, because erotic writers as a group use a small menagerie of characters. It's easy to go outside the lines.

Sometimes it doesn't work, but it's a lot more interesting to me even if the readers don't care for it,. I'd rather create a unique character than juggle a collection of cliches into a slightly different shape, even if I know that the cliches work for more readers.

Coloring inside the lines usually gets my stories higher ratings.

 

[THBGato]

I wonder how much of the folk songs classification could be used for erotic fiction...?

Shit loads.

But it would mostly go in loving wives (Matty Groves), romance (e.g. wedding dress), first time (e.g. echo mocks the corncrake), cnc (e.g. Eppie Murray). Not much for the Sci-Fi and Group sex crowds.

 

[Bazzle]

Clichés are impossible to avoid in writing, and perhaps even more so in erotica. If you want to describe your POV character, there are only so many ways to do it: admiring themselves in a mirror, summing up their physical characteristics in a conversation, seeing a "Wanted" poster for themselves on the wall of the police station. To get the mother and son in bed together, you're pretty much limited to "oh no, there's only one bed in this hotel room!" or something equally contrived. The voyeur gets lucky because the new neighbour hasn't put up curtains yet. And so on.

Of course a good writer can take any of these clichés and turn it into a good story without even trying to disguise what they're doing. But even then, there's probably a limit to how many times you can do it before you get bored.

So here's a thread dedicated to taking an old cliché and giving it a new spin. Not avoiding it - that can become contrived itself if you're trying too hard - but the same cliché but with a breath of fresh air to brighten it up.

I took the whole looking in the mirror cliche and ran with it

https://www.literotica.com/s/watching-her-13

The paranormal mirror gets my protagonist addicted to smoking. Mirrors and reflections go through the whole story. She is constantly double checking if it's her or the Reflection she is looking at.

Playing on the idea of animal farm at the end of can you tell?

 

[StillStunned]

I took the whole looking in the mirror cliche and ran with it

https://www.literotica.com/s/watching-her-13

The paranormal mirror gets my protagonist addicted to smoking. Mirrors and reflections go through the whole story. She is constantly double checking if it's her or the Reflection she is looking at.

Playing on the idea of animal farm at the end of can you tell?

I liked the use of the white and orange dress in that one!