The Democrats need to soft-pedal social-cultural liberalism, play up economic populism

[Politruk]

After all, in the long run, liberal victory in the culture wars is inevitable.

In the economic sphere -- not so much. That's the fight that counts.

If you want the votes of the working class, you have to shut up about identity politics. You have to fight the plutocracy.

If you defeat the plutocracy, everything else will take care of itself and the culture war will quietly die away.

 

[Saint_Ann]

So you think it's going to take a complete abandonment of the left's wacko core values to save them from complete ruin? Probably. Unlikely.

Just 2 weeks ago ya'll were predicting
the death of the GOP while trying to borrow their planks. Lol.

 

[UltraChad]

After all, in the long run, liberal victory in the culture wars is inevitable.

In the economic sphere -- not so much. That's the fight that counts.

If you want the votes of te working class, you have to shut up about identity politics. You have to fight the plutocracy.

If you defeat the plutocracy, everything else will take care of itself and the culture war will quietly die away.

Define "liberal", because the liberals just won the working class.

 

[Politruk]

So you think it's going to take a complete abandonment of the left's wacko core values to save them from complete ruin?

1. The Democrats are not the left.

2. Economic matters are as much Dem "core values" as cultural ones.

3. The Dems are under no threat of "complete ruin," only of suboptimal influence.

 

[Politruk]

Define "liberal", because the liberals just won the working class.

Not "libertarian." Think New Deal liberal, Great Society liberal.

 

[UltraChad]

1. The Democrats are not the left.

Why do you insist on pushing that lie?

2. Economic matters are as much Dem "core values" as cultural ones.

Sure, but they hold leftist values. Because they are leftist. They'll have to abandon some of their crazier bullshit.

3. The Dems are under no threat of "complete ruin," only of suboptimal influence.

LOL

 

[UltraChad]

Not "libertarian." Think New Deal liberal, Great Society liberal.

Those were mildly liberal at best.

Define liberalism. You don't seem to understand what that word means and desperately want to conflate it with Stalinism.

 

[Saint_Ann]

1. The Democrats are not the left.

2. Economic matters are as much Dem "core values" as cultural ones.

3. The Dems are under no threat of "complete ruin," only of suboptimal influence.

So double down on 'tax the rich' while going hush hush on killing as many babies as humanly possible?

 

[Politruk]

Why do you insist on pushing that lie?

It's the Pubs who persist in lying about it. RWs called Clinton a leftist, and he was just a centrist DLC DINO -- nothing he did ever even tended in a Communist or authoritarian direction, or even towards social democracy. Likewise with Obama and Biden, whose politics are no further left than Clinton's. Isn't it about time you dropped this particular idiocy? It is a very long time, now, since the Democratic Party had any left wing that mattered. Not even an innocuous, vanilla, more-or-leftist social democrat like Sanders has a chance at the nomination.

I actually, for real, not making this up, in the '90s, saw a bumper sticker reading "CLINTON FOR CHANGE" -- with the C's rendered as hammers-and-sickles.

That's the utterly incredible level of stupid we're dealing with here -- it has not died out even now.

 

[UltraChad]

It's the Pubs who persist in lying about it.

But they aren't....you are.

You define the left as Marxist threatening enough to your imaginary boogiemen. Which is a dishonest bullshit definition. OR you just pretend they're still the Democrats of 30+ years ago. Which is also bullshit.

By the definitions and concepts of the left the rest of the world uses, the Democrats CURRENTLY are lefties.

 

[Lazaran]

So double down on 'tax the rich' while going hush hush on killing as many babies as humanly possible?

Saint_Ann syndrome rears it’s ugly battered head…again.

The Democrats didn’t lose on Women’s health or taxing the rich.

The Democrats lost on poor messaging on the economy, international conflicts, and the border / immigration crisis - and letting DonOld and the MAGAts control the narrative on who was responsible for inflation, international conflicts, and the border / immigration crisis.

Hope that ^ helps.

 

[UltraChad]

Saint_Ann syndrome rears it’s ugly battered head…again.

The Democrats didn’t lose on Women’s health or taxing the rich.

The Democrats lost on poor messaging on the economy, international conflicts, and the border / immigration crisis - and letting DonOld and the MAGAts control the narrative on who was responsible for inflation, international conflicts, and the border / immigration crisis.

Hope that ^ helps.

Awww your censorship and suppression of the other failed....how horrible for you and the other fascist who had to watch your ideas actually compete and lose.

 

[Politruk]

But they aren't....you are.

You define the left as Marxist threatening enough to your imaginary boogiemen. Which is a dishonest bullshit definition. OR you just pretend they're still the Democrats of 30+ years ago. Which is also bullshit.

By the definitions and concepts of the left the rest of the world uses, the Democrats CURRENTLY are lefties.

The left ain't New Deal liberalism -- and in economic terms, the Dems have been inching steadily rightward ever since that period.

By the definitions and concepts of the left the rest of the world uses, the U.S. has no left to speak of. Not even Bernie Sanders is left by global standards.

 

[Politruk]

So double down on 'tax the rich' while going hush hush on killing as many babies as humanly possible?

Well, of course we have to keep killing the babies. Democrats can't eat anything else.

 

[UltraChad]

The left ain't New Deal liberalism --

Never said they were. Tilt harder at the windmills.

and in economic terms, the Dems have been inching steadily rightward ever since that period.

UHH DA SKY IS GREEN AT NOON ON A CLEAR DAY!!! Tell that lie to someone who is buying.

By the definitions and concepts of the left the rest of the world uses, the U.S. has no left to speak of. Not even Bernie Sanders is left by global standards.

More lies. The democrats openly support collectivism, equity and the ousting of the old liberal institutions for new "progressive" ones aimed at forcing social and economic equity.... they are definitionally leftist.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Well, of course we have to keep killing the babies. Democrats can't eat anything else.

So which is it? Double down on abortion, abortion, abortion or soft peddle it? Start trying to rewrite history that the dems didn't fuck the border, the economy, Israel and Ukraine. That's gonna take longer than 4 years.

 

[Politruk]

More lies. The democrats openly support collectivism, equity and the ousting of the old liberal institutions for new "progressive" ones aimed at forcing social and economic equity.... they are definitionally leftist.

That's not leftist. You can tell by Dems' tax policy. None of it tends in the direction of making the rich less rich. DEI is not leftist.

 

[UltraChad]

That's not leftist.

Yes it is.

You can tell by Dems' tax policy. None of it tends in the direction of making the rich less rich.

The rich literally pay almost all the income, capital gains and property taxes. Tell us more how the sky is green on your planet.

DEI is not leftist.

It's literally part of the acronym. Equity. LOL

Is the lying compulsive or pathological?? Both??

 

[Politruk]

Yes it is.


Tell us more how the sky is green on your planet.



It's literally part of the acronym. Equity. LOL

Equity != leftism.

 

[UltraChad]

Equity != leftism.

It's their top political priority and defining core value, the same way liberty is for liberals.

The collectivization and ousting of old institutions/systems makes for the definitional trifecta.

Modern Western Progressives are not revolutionary Marxist...but they are leftist. Why do you have such a compulsive need to deny and lie about that? Pretend Democrats haven't changed a bit in 70 years??

 

[Politruk]

Pretend Democrats haven't changed a bit in 70 years??

They have changed -- by becoming more and more the property of the plutocrats. Less and less of a threat to them. FDR was at least something of a threat, and bragged about it.

 

[MajorRewrite]

A new healthcare system based on any of the other developed nations is the obvious example. It would save Americans about a trillion dollars annually because our system is more than twice as expensive as any other. Lower costs would mean it could be offered free to more low-income people. And the healthcare results are better in every other system too.

There is no downside, except to the parasites in the medical industry.

And the Republicans have absolutely nothing to counter with. (I think Trump’s concept of a healthcare plan somehow involves tariffs and immigrants).

 

[Politruk]

There is no downside, except to the parasites in the medical industry.

No, those are in the insurance industry.

 

[MajorRewrite]

No, those are in the insurance industry.

And the medical industry. The current system is anti-competitive and specifically designed to fleece all users for maximum amounts.

There’s a good reason why most states only have a couple of health insurance companies. It’s a tough business to actually profit in because medical industry charges spiral upward faster than insurance premiums can be adjusted.

 

[Lazaran]

There is no downside, except to the parasites in the medical industry.

The way the pyramid scheme that is the United States capitalism model is structured (healthcare being part of it), I suspect an abrupt restructuring to a single payer government healthcare system would yield some negative consequences beyond the cutting out of the middlemen.

I also suspect that ^ is part of the reason President Obama compromised and settled for the ACA rather than going for single payer: Too many unknowns involved in such a drastic shift away from the current model.

It IS worth considering the fact that the ACA has been working relatively well, and the shift from the ACA to single payer may not be such a drastic move as it would have been before the ACA.



Still a fuckton of unknowns, but less than before.