Our country's fetishizing of guns is revolting

[AndersonsBiographer]

Hang on. "play "army man" with my mates" and "Our culture" aren't jiving. Brit living in the States or not smart enough to use American version of English for tricking the crowd into believing you are part of "Our culture"?

His having "mates" who went to Vietnam (and then threw away their guns, knives and pointy sticks too I suppose, when they came back ) is also suspect. The writing style doesn't fit the implied age. If he's in his thirties, then he has what my psychologist sister would call "severe regressive tendencies." The youngest of the Vietnam generation is, what, in their 70's now?

 

[LMWM321]

Swords and armor were historically designed with beauty in mind. Some of the greatest artists of the Medieval and Renaissance era had side-gigs as weapons-makers. When you look at an ornately-designed sword or shield, do you wonder how many skulls it shattered?

I have no interest in gawking at swords, no matter how impressive the scroll-work or whatever is.

Besides, are you comparing the beauty of sword/ shield to "Let It Rain" embossed on a AR rifle that can kill dozens of people in seconds? I'm done w/ you.

 

[DroolinFool]

His having "mates" who went to Vietnam (and threw away their guns, knives and pointy sticks too I suppose, when they came back ) is also suspect. The writing style doesn't fit the implied age. If he's in his thirties, then he has what my psychologist sister would call "severe regressive tendencies." The youngest of the Vietnam generation is, what, in their 70's now?

Wow. I didn't look too far back in his posts. But his claim to be a member of "our culture", using a Brit name for childhood friends, and claiming to have "responsibly owned a firearm", it was just adding up to another poser for the sake of posting. Bleh. Now I'm actually interested in his prior posts, being more entertaining than the actual dumbfuckery he posts to be taken seriously.

 

[DroolinFool]

WTH are you talking about? I've mentioned in countless other threads - all totally unrelated to politics - that I live in the US. .Why would I want to deceive on this one? For fuck's sake. This was my one and only post here in the Politics forum. ..And my last given the moronic responses.

Is that really your best contribution to this thread?

Cute. More full of shit than a Taco Bell toilet, but cute.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Swords and armor were historically designed with beauty in mind. Some of the greatest artists of the Medieval and Renaissance era had side-gigs as weapons-makers. When you look at an ornately-designed sword or shield, do you wonder how many skulls it shattered?

Originally designed as an aircraft cannon if I remember correctly. Russians still use such a device as a long range anti-material rifle, built from GSh-23 barrels.

The other way round. Initially an anti-tank rifle, but as tanks became impervious to 20mm, reused as AA and as sniper rifles I believe. I only read a little about them but the one I would really like for myself is an old Suomi.

 

[Bn2f]

I have no interest in gawking at swords, no matter how impressive the scroll-work or whatever is.

Besides, are you comparing the beauty of sword/ shield to "Let It Rain" embossed on a AR rifle that can kill dozens of people in seconds? I'm done w/ you.

As the moderator of the gun thread here, I’m of the opinion that your caring and thoughtfully worded questions will not get adequately answered here. I think you are also well on your way, if not already, to knowing the sad but true answer.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

I have no interest in gawking at swords, no matter how impressive the scroll-work or whatever is.

Besides, are you comparing the beauty of sword/ shield to "Let It Rain" embossed on a AR rifle that can kill dozens of people in seconds? I'm done w/ you.

I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of how the ARs look. Too plastic, too modernist.

However, I do consider the rugged functionality of my FN-49 to have its own attraction, and I've seldom heard a Mauser called ugly.



Can't beat the old wood frames. Not exactly the Evil Black Rifles that the Coastal Elites are always screeching about now, are they? And, I'll probably never own one, but I've always had a thing for the M1 Carbine.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/14/9c/1d/149c1d93bcd724ea19c35aa13c7d5755.jpg
If you want more "classically beautiful" artistry, look into the old Jezail flintlocks. Still popular in some parts of the world, and I've seen modern shotguns and rifles (even a Kalashnikov or two) decorated in similar styles. Very impressive.

 

[LMWM321]

Wow. I didn't look too far back in his posts. But his claim to be a member of "our culture", using a Brit name for childhood friends, and claiming to have "responsibly owned a firearm", it was just adding up to another poser for the sake of posting. Bleh. Now I'm actually interested in his prior posts, being more entertaining than the actual dumbfuckery he posts to be taken seriously.

I'm confused. ..What exactly is the Gotcha! you seem so excited about? ..And for what it's worth, my OP could have just as easily come from someone in GB who is struggling to understand our pathological love of life-ending devices. Would it have really mattered?

 

[AlexBailey]

Why is it any mystery why guns are fetishized?

The dynamics of power are a well understood kink. What is more objectively empowering than being able to kill someone?

Guns go a long way to level the playing field for those who have them. For countless reasons this is good and bad, but still a gun is a very empowering tool.


A bullied awkward zit-faced kid can take revenge, make the news, and become a fucked up sort of celebrity. When you’re truly dejected and depressed any attention can feel better than none, especially if you’re suicidal.

School dropouts with nothing worthwhile in their thoughts can have power over others. Knuckle draggers love the boost of power they may not have found from learning anything else.

More innocently, people who are small or meek can defend themselves from larger more powerful assailants. I’ve had times when I’ve felt the need to have firepower close at hand to protect my wife and family - other people we knew were murdered that night.

I had two girlfriends who avoided being raped at a remote hot spring when one of them pulled her Barretta from her backpack. Having the gun enabled them to explore places which otherwise would be too dangerous for two pretty girls.


If you’re mechanically minded, firearms, especially their history is fascinating. For better or worse, much of technology was expanded in pursuit of better weapons. Take a look at a Navy Colt Revolver and try to imagine building something like that back in 1847. It’s a wonder of engineering, as impressive for the time as the Wright Brothers inventions.

(Speaking of weapons driving innovation, ever checked out how WWI influenced early flight? )

Guns are tools. For better or worse they empower those who seek it. Fetishization of them seems very natural to me.

 

[DroolinFool]

I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of how the ARs look. Too plastic, too modernist.

However, I do consider the rugged functionality of my FN-49 to have its own attraction, and I've seldom heard a Mauser called ugly.

View attachment 2365760
View attachment 2365764
Can't beat the old wood frames. Not exactly the Evil Black Rifles that the Coastal Elites are always screeching about now, are they? And, I'll probably never own one, but I've always had a thing for the M1 Carbine.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/14/9c/1d/149c1d93bcd724ea19c35aa13c7d5755.jpg
If you want more "classically beautiful" artistry, look into the old Jezail flintlocks. Still popular in some parts of the world, and I've seen modern shotguns and rifles (even a Kalashnikov or two) decorated in similar styles. Very impressive.
View attachment 2365768

ARs are a lot less plastic than they used to be. More modular. 6mm ARC is also changing the field for them considering the range barriers the 5.56, 6.8 SPC, and 300 Blk have. I do love the M14 and M1 look, though. Just not practical for applications other than nostalgia or SHTF/ "don't have anything better" situations.

 

[DroolinFool]

The other way round. Initially an anti-tank rifle, but as tanks became impervious to 20mm, reused as AA and as sniper rifles I believe. I only read a little about them but the one I would really like for myself is an old Suomi.

Funny how the armor tech of the time outstripped the projectile design during that period. 55 Boys and a couple of other designs ended up as anti-personnel or soft armor rounds in the blink of an eye due to the race for better protection. Interesting to find another 1. Thanks.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of how the ARs look. Too plastic, too modernist.

However, I do consider the rugged functionality of my FN-49 to have its own attraction, and I've seldom heard a Mauser called ugly.

Can't beat the old wood frames. Not exactly the Evil Black Rifles that the Coastal Elites are always screeching about now, are they? And, I'll probably never own one, but I've always had a thing for the M1 Carbine.

Haaaa. Suomi. There is beauty in functionality and reliability......

 

[LMWM321]

Guns are tools. For better or worse they empower those who seek it. Fetishization of them seems very natural to me.

Firstly, thank you for being one of the only people to attempt a serious, thoughtful, full-fledged reply.

Sadly, there have always been smaller, weaker men who have been bullied, and women who have felt threatened by men with bad intentions. Indeed, I was bullied as a child (10-13yrs old), and I've feared for my family as an adult... Indeed, most people have. ..And I don't know ANY woman (attractive, or not so much) who hasn't had moments when they felt an ominous presence as they crossed a dark parking lot or have crossed paths with a man (or men) while hiking who made them uneasy. In fact, it's sad truth that if you're over 50, then you've lived long enough to likely know someone who has been sexually assaulted (nearly always a woman by a man, but not necessarily so).

Still, all the women I know, and most every man, find the sight of an AR style weapon to be abhorrent. We all want to able to defend ourselves, but firing bullets that have such velocity as to travel through multiple people? ..And from a distance of hundreds of yards? ..I don't find it very easy to find people who are attracted to that, even women who HAVE been sexually assaulted.

My hunch is social media is an amplifier, a multiplier of peoples' discontent - it brings sociopathic malcontents into an echo chamber where they assure each other there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with fetishizing death and, by extension, weapons such as AR's.

Anyway... Thanks again for a sensible - if not fully satisfying - reply.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Still, all the women I know, and most every man, find the sight of an AR style weapon to be abhorrent. We all want to able to defend ourselves, but firing bullets that have such velocity as to travel through multiple people? ..And from a distance of hundreds of yards?

This is only true on Planet Biden.

 

[AlexBailey]

Firstly, thank you for being one of the only people to attempt a serious, thoughtful, full-fledged reply.

Sadly, there have always been smaller, weaker men who have been bullied, and women who have felt threatened by men with bad intentions. Indeed, I was bullied as a child (10-13yrs old), and I've feared for my family as an adult... Indeed, most people have. ..And I don't know ANY woman (attractive, or not so much) who hasn't had moments when they felt an ominous presence as they crossed a dark parking lot or have crossed paths with a man (or men) while hiking who made them uneasy. In fact, it's sad truth that if you're over 50, you almost certainly know someone who has been sexually assaulted (nearly always a woman by a man, but not necessarily so).

Still, all the women I know, and most every man, find the sight of an AR style weapon to be abhorrent. We all want to able to defend ourselves, but firing bullets that have such velocity as to travel through multiple people? ..And from a distance of hundreds of yards? ..I don't find it very easy to find people who are attracted to that, even women who HAVE been sexually assaulted.

My hunch is social media is an amplifier, a multiplier of peoples' discontent - it brings sociopathic malcontents into an echo chamber where they assure each other there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with fetishizing death and, by extension, weapons such as AR's.

Anyway... Thanks again for a sensible - if not fully satisfying - reply.

It’s a very complicated issue. There are those who have an emotional attachment to the 2a and aren’t willing to honestly consider how the articles of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are supposed to serve the interests stated in the Preamble of the Constitution.

I believe there needs to be many forms and layers of gun control laws and if the Supreme Court is going to determine that there must be no protections for citizens, the time will come when the second amendment will be repealed. It may take a generation or two but I don’t believe civil society will continue to put up with the relentless and undefendable vulnerability the public is subject to when anyone can get anything.

I believe there is room for laws that allow law abiding citizens to have access to firearms for self defense and recreation without making all the weapons of war available to anyone on the street.


Meanwhile, I still understand why some people fetishize them. Watt is on the extreme edge, posting pics of women with muzzles up inside of them…. That I don’t get. It looks like pure misogyny to me but then again, this world is so weird and fucked up that I don’t doubt there are women out there who will stick a gun in their pussy without someone else putting a gun to their head just to please someone who has had a lifetime of high exposure to lead.

 

[LMWM321]

@AlexBailey

Again.. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

..And yes, it did not go unnoticed that Wat not only failed to provide a coherent response to my OP but decided this was a good opportunity to further display his repulsive love for AR's. ..Honestly, I'm sure he doesn't want my pity, but he's getting it nonetheless. What a sad life he must live.

 

[Rightguide]

If a civilian hadn't been given access to an assault rifle (and no civilian has a reason to need one), there would not have been an assassination attempt on Donald Trump on Saturday.

Did an assault rifle wound Teddy Roosevelt, kill JFK, threaten Gerald Ford, and wound Ronald Reagan?

 

[AlexBailey]

Did an assault rifle wound Teddy Roosevelt, kill JFK, threaten Gerald Ford, and wound Ronald Reagan?

Maybe not but shooters used AR style rifles to kill 221 and wound ~ 568 people in the ten attacks listed below:


1. Las Vegas, Nevada (2017): Stephen Paddock used multiple rifles, including AR-15 style weapons, to kill 60 people and wound over 400 at a music festival from his hotel room.

2. Orlando, Florida (2016): Omar Mateen used a Sig Sauer MCX rifle, which is similar to an AR-15, to kill 49 people and wound 53 others at the Pulse nightclub.

3. Newtown, Connecticut (2012): Adam Lanza used an AR-15 style rifle to kill 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

4. Sutherland Springs, Texas (2017): Devin Patrick Kelley used an AR-15 style rifle to kill 26 people and wound 20 others at the First Baptist Church.

5. Parkland, Florida (2018): Nikolas Cruz used an AR-15 style rifle to kill 17 students and staff and injure 17 others at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

6. San Bernardino, California (2015): Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik used AR-15 style rifles to kill 14 people and wound 22 others at a holiday party.

7. Boulder, Colorado (2021): Ahmad Al Aliwi Al-Issa used an AR-15 style rifle to kill 10 people in a supermarket.

8. Midland and Odessa, Texas (2019): Seth Aaron Ator used an AR-15 style rifle to kill seven people and wound 25 others during a shooting spree.

9. Tree of Life Synagogue, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (2018): Robert Bowers used an AR-15 style rifle to kill 11 people and wound six others during a religious service.

10. Poway, California (2019): John Earnest used an AR-15 style rifle to kill one person and wound three others at the Chabad of Poway synagogue.


It’s pretty easy to make the argument that if the perpetrators hadn’t used semi-automatic weapons there would have been fewer victims.

 

[LMWM321]

...shooters used AR style rifles to kill 221 and wound ~ 568 people in the ten attacks listed below:

Well said...

And add to the count the thousands of lives irreparably damaged by being witness to the chaos and carnage of those attacks AND the ten's of millions of school age children who each day are reminded of the constant threat of gun violence as they practice school shut-down procedures.

All so that an incredibly selfish minority of emotionally-stunted Americans can feed their lust for AR's.

 

[Lazaran]

Well said...

And add to the count the thousands of lives irreparably damaged by being witness to the chaos and carnage of those attacks AND the ten's of millions of school age children who each day are reminded of the constant threat of gun violence as they practice school shut-down procedures.

All so that an incredibly selfish minority of emotionally-stunted Americans can feed their lust for AR's.

I would add:

When one gets shot by an AR style weapon from a distance (or even up close when compared to most other weapons) the injury is FAAAAAAAR more devastating.

Surviving an AR wound isn’t “dodging a bullet”.

Death might be preferable in many instances.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Did an assault rifle wound Teddy Roosevelt, kill JFK, threaten Gerald Ford, and wound Ronald Reagan?

Nope, Assault rifles were not common in the not-so-distant past.
Now, they're everywhere, making beta males such as yourself feel "important" and "manly".
That's the main reason they've become the "weapon of choice" for mass murder, big ole magazines, point-shoot-kill-repeat.

It takes skill to inflict multiple casualties with a knife or blade weapon. It takes virtually no skill at all (only a complete lack of a moral compass) to load and fire a semi-automatic weapon.

 

[LMWM321]

I would add:

When one gets shot by an AR style weapon from a distance (or even up close when compared to most other weapons) the injury is FAAAAAAAR more devastating.

Surviving an AR wound isn’t “dodging a bullet”.

Death might be preferable in many instances.

Yes.. a worthwhile add for sure.

And also worth adding: ..The hell ER Physicians and staff are put through when dealing w/ mass shootings. I know several docs and more than one has said that ER docs who have dealt with mass shootings have a significantly elevated risk of substance abuse and suicide. No surprise there. I can't imagine frantically treating a moaning child dying from a gunshot wound.

 

[Lazaran]

Yes.. a worthwhile add for sure.

And also worth adding: ..The hell ER Physicians and staff are put through when dealing w/ mass shootings. I know several docs and more than one has said that ER docs who have dealt with mass shootings have an elevated risk of substance abuse and suicide. No surprise there. I can't imagine frantically treating a moaning child dying from a gunshot wound.

I worked in a quasi-hospital setting and we occasionally got people in who were in the recovery phase of treatment for gunshot wounds:

One individual had been hit by two rounds from a police AR rifle. It was gruesome. The damage done from two bullets was incredible. The amount of bone and tissue / muscle loss seemed impossible from just two relatively tiny bullets. It looked like they shot him with a shotgun slug or a .44 hollow point from point blank range - and way more than just twice.

Other individuals who HAD been shot repeatedly (sometimes six or more times) by handguns displayed bullet entry and exit wounds and some scars from surgery, but nothing like what that AR did.

That ^ was when I determined that the AR did NOT belong in the hands of just any citizen. It IS a weapon of mass destruction.

Full stop.

 

[TrailerHitch]

This country's love affair with guns is revolting. ..And we're so far gone we don't see it for what it is - a twisted, psychotic fetish.

To think there are millions of American's who consider gun play a hobby, a lifestyle, or an activity around which the family spends time bonding - as though celebrating a device engineered to shoot a projectile that pierces skin, bone, and brain was a normal, wholesome thing.

Imagine you moved next door to a guy who, instead of worshipping guns, enjoys brewing poison for killing people and making full-size guillotine replicas. "Don't worry neighbor!" he tells you, "I would never use these on people unless forced to do so! I only use the poison on lab rats and the guillotines on pig carcasses." What would you think of the guy? ..You would think he was fucking nuts. ..But worshipping weapons that can kill multiple people from hundreds of yards away in a matter of seconds? Spending weekends at gun clubs showing off their arsenal and debating accuracy and stopping power with fellow nut-jobs? .Nope! nothing to see here people. ..He's just a normal American celebrating his birthright.

Are guns a necessity? ..Of course they are... for law enforcement and military personnel.

What a bunch of propagandist drivel.

You trust the government enough to allow them to be the only ones armed. Many, myself included, do not.

 

[AlexBailey]

What a bunch of propagandist drivel.

You trust the government enough to allow them to be the only ones armed. Many, myself included, do not.

Right wing paranoia.

Not everyone considers their elected government the enemy.