closed Thread

[KeithD]

I do hate how the Israeli issue has split the right

Trump is going to win

I'm really scratching my head on how those two things go together.

(And, psst. Trump isn't going to win. He can hype the media coverage; he can't hype the ballot box.)

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

I do hate how the Israeli issue has split the right

Trump is going to win

I pray that someone manages to keep the losses down in the occupation of Gaza. It’s not a war anymore.

Then again? How many died thanks to our 9/11 response ??

I don't see the right being split. If anything, it's only proven that the anti-Zionist "alt-right" was never really anything but a media boogeyman.

I see the left split, between those of us who oppose genocide and those of us who oppose genocide only when our Jewish masters allow us to. Which is also a split between those who lack finance and power and those who have it, so not really a split worth a damn.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

I'm really scratching my head on how those two things go together.

(And, psst. Trump isn't going to win. He can hype the media coverage; he can't hype the ballot box.)

This guy...

This fucking guy... acting like ballots and elections matter in a capitalist society.

If voting could change anything, they'd make it illegal.

 

[KeithD]

This guy...

This fucking guy... acting like ballots and elections matter in a capitalist society.

If voting could change anything, they'd make it illegal.

Check back on the day after election day. I've been around for a long time. Silly media manipulation games don't scare me. Neither do shallow-thinking discussion board posters.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

Check back on the day after election day. I've been around for a long time. Silly media manipulation games don't scare me. Neither do shallow-thinking discussion board posters.

The day after election day? When one decrepit old capitalist may or may not be replaced by another decrepit old capitalist? When Amerika will continue using its fortunes built on exploitation and white supremacy to continue funding nazism and genocide?

I probably won't. I'll snark and I'll moan about it, I'll make some off-color guillotine jokes and then I'll get over it. I've completely checked out on what happens to this damn country.

Good thing, too. Otherwise, I would have long ago pulled a James Hodgkinson.

 

[Rightguide]

Yes, you are right 3 million died because of the atomic bombardment by an American's decision. So, the stupid and criminal action by the American army is not related to supporting the Japanese people!!

Actually more Japanese civilians were killed by conventional firebombing than by the atom bombs. In the firebombing of Tokyo City alone 80-100,000 civilians were killed. The Atom bombing killed a total of 210,000. When we add the other 63 cities and deaths by conventional bombing we then arrive at that 3 million figure. The fact is those Atomic bombings probably saved more Japanese lives than they took. Just offshore was a million-man invasion force prepared to invade the home islands where millions more would have been killed.

 

[KeithD]

The day after election day? When one decrepit old capitalist may or may not be replaced by another decrepit old capitalist? When Amerika will continue using its fortunes built on exploitation and white supremacy to continue funding nazism and genocide?

I probably won't. I'll snark and I'll moan about it, I'll make some off-color guillotine jokes and then I'll get over it. I've completely checked out on what happens to this damn country.

Good thing, too. Otherwise, I would have long ago pulled a James Hodgkinson.

You certainly do have snark down. Wallow as you like. I'll not join you in that.

 

[JohnEngelman]

I'm really scratching my head on how those two things go together.

(And, psst. Trump isn't going to win. He can hype the media coverage; he can't hype the ballot box.)

Right now convicted felon Trump is looking at the possibility of a four year prison sentence.

 

[komesh]

بمب های اتمی که بر روی هیروشیما و ناکازاکی انداخته شد حدود 200000 نفر را کشتند نه 3000000. اگر بمب‌های اتمی ژاپنی‌ها را مبهوت نمی‌کرد، احتمالاً تعداد کشته‌ها در ژاپن بیشتر می‌شد.

اعراب غزه در جنگی که در 7 اکتبر آغاز کردند شکست خورده اند. اگر تسلیم اسراییل شوند و از غم های نسل کشی خود دست بکشند، هنوز هم می توان جان بسیاری را نجات داد.

بمب های اتمی که بر روی هیروشیما و ناکازاکی انداخته شد حدود 200000 نفر را کشتند نه 3000000. اگر بمب‌های اتمی ژاپنی‌ها را مبهوت نمی‌کرد، احتمالاً تعداد کشته‌ها در ژاپن بیشتر می‌شد.

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed about 200,000 people, not 3,000,000. The death toll in Japan would likely have been higher had the atom bombs not stunned the Japanese into surrendering.

The Arabs in Gaza have lost the war they started on October 7th. Many lives could still be saved if they would surrender to Israel, and abandon their genocidal dreams.

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed about 200,000 people, not 3,000,000. The death toll in Japan would likely have been higher had the atom bombs not stunned the Japanese into surrendering.

The Arabs in Gaza have lost the war they started on October 7th. Many lives could still be saved if they would surrender to Israel, and abandon their genocidal dreams.

Yes, You are right, 200000 Japanese were killed during the war.
The war between Japan and America was between two classic armies, but the case in Gaze is quite different. In Gaze, the war is between an advanced classic army of Isreal, and a fist of terrorists, Hamas. In a classic war, you know exactly where the front line is and where the back line is, so if somebody is killed, he or she is a soldier, but in a partisan war, you don't know who is a partisan and the regular people. Therefore, to kill a partisan, who is hiding among the regular people, you should kill too many people until you kill a partisan you are not sure who you kill, and you should fight house by house blindly. Now, it is happening in Gaze daily, and the result is the killing of 37000 innocent people who may be just a few thousand Hamas members among them, plus a burning land.
BB made the great mistake of being involved in a dirty war whose end is unknown. Gaze- Isreail War is the same as the Vietnam War. The American army had to leave Vietnam without achieving anything. If BB does not agree to size fire and accept the two states, this war will come to the same conclusion as the Vietnam War.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Yes, You are right, 200000 Japanese were killed during the war.
The war between Japan and America was between two classic armies, but the case in Gaze is quite different. In Gaze, the war is between an advanced classic army of Isreal, and a fist of terrorists, Hamas. In a classic war, you know exactly where the front line is and where the back line is, so if somebody is killed, he or she is a soldier, but in a partisan war, you don't know who is a partisan and the regular people. Therefore, to kill a partisan, who is hiding among the regular people, you should kill too many people until you kill a partisan you are not sure who you kill, and you should fight house by house blindly. Now, it is happening in Gaze daily, and the result is the killing of 37000 innocent people who may be just a few thousand Hamas members among them, plus a burning land.
BB made the great mistake of being involved in a dirty war whose end is unknown. Gaze- Isreail War is the same as the Vietnam War. The American army had to leave Vietnam without achieving anything. If BB does not agree to size fire and accept the two states, this war will come to the same conclusion as the Vietnam War.

200,000 was the Japanese death toll just for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not the whole war. The planned American invasion of the home islands would have been house-to-house fighting like you describe and the losses on both sides would have been horrific.

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

 

[komesh]

200,000 was the Japanese death toll just for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not the whole war. The planned American invasion of the home islands would have been house-to-house fighting like you describe and the losses on both sides would have been horrific.

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

200,000 was the Japanese death toll just for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not the whole war. The planned American invasion of the home islands would have been house-to-house fighting like you describe and the losses on both sides would have been horrific.

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

According to the World War II Museum, about 400,000 American soldiers died during six years of war, which means about 5,550 persons each month. Roughly calculation shows during 7 months of the war, about 37000 Americans died in the classic World War II, and the same number means 37000 Palestinians who % 90 of them were civilians were killed in the Gaze. So, how do you compare these two categories? W W II was a classic war, but the War of Gaze is between a classic army and a group of partisans!!!

I

 

[komesh]

I hope BB decides to end this dirty war as soon as possible, otherwise, there will be no more peace for either side and more than 40,000 died on both sides plus a burned land for Palestinians. And, do not forget you can kill people, you can burn their homes, but you can not buy peace, love, and eliminate hate.!!!!

 

[RobDownSouth]

<tiresome WW2 false equivalency snipped>

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

an "Existential Threat" generally has stuff like food, water and access to some sort of medical care to be viable.
Israel's genocidal campaign has removed all strategic stores from Hamas (and civilians too, but Israel doesn't care about civilians).

Hamas is not an "existential threat" by any means right now. People in the Middle East have very long memories though (see also: Iran) so Israel can expect retaliation in about two decades. Actions have consequences.

 

[censurat]

I wish there was a mass starvation

Sadly there isnt

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-gaza-famine-that-wasnt/

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

an "Existential Threat" generally has stuff like food, water and access to some sort of medical care to be viable.
Israel's genocidal campaign has removed all strategic stores from Hamas (and civilians too, but Israel doesn't care about civilians).

Hamas is not an "existential threat" by any means right now. People in the Middle East have very long memories though (see also: Iran) so Israel can expect retaliation in about two decades. Actions have consequences.

The rest of the Arabs—who rule most of the Middle East, including Iran—want to eradicate Israel.

Since Israel has defeated them every time they’ve attacked openly, they’ve carried on a covert war for decades cynically using the Arabs in Palestine as weapons.

 

[DemonDanielle404]

The rest of the Arabs—who rule most of the Middle East, including Iran—want to eradicate Israel.

Since Israel has defeated them every time they’ve attacked openly, they’ve carried on a covert war for decades cynically using the Arabs in Palestine as weapons.

BrightShinyGirl, Iranians are not Arabs, they're Farsi.

For that matter, Israelis are not real Jews, they're White Khazars. Black people are actually Jew, and since this passes from mother to daughter, then only black and mixed women are True Jew.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The rest of the Arabs—who rule most of the Middle East, including Iran—want to eradicate Israel.

Since Israel has defeated them every time they’ve attacked openly, they’ve carried on a covert war for decades cynically using the Arabs in Palestine as weapons.

No they don't. They posture and preen and do it for domestic consumption. Egypt gets paid billions each year by the US not to antagonize Israel and they have kept their word since 1978. Saudi Arabia started making noises last year that they want a payoff similar to Egypt. UAE and Qatar actually opened diplomatic relations with Israel without being paid.

The Arab world seems to have gradually shifted toward Shiite vs Sunni conflict. Iran is the only country actually willing to put it's money and missiles where their mouth is, and are now hell bent on creating nukes after Trump unilaterally abrogated the "no nukes pledge" that had been carefully crafted to avoid nuclear arms in Iran.

Iran doesn't actually want to USE nuclear arms, they want it as a strategic detterent because Israel routinely drops random bombs in Iran.

Syria is in disarray and Pakistan has nukes so nobody fucks with Pakistan.

Lebanon still seeks revenge for Israel's complicity in the Hezbollah war and will eventually retaliate. Israel deserves this. In the interim, Israel's air force routinely "practices" aerial bombing runs and supersonic overflight by fighter jets to intimidate Lebanon. Once Lebanon gets state of the art Air Defense Artillery the rules change.

Have I missed any country?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

No they don't. They posture and preen and do it for domestic consumption. Egypt gets paid billions each year by the US not to antagonize Israel and they have kept their word since 1978. Saudi Arabia started making noises last year that they want a payoff similar to Egypt. UAE and Qatar actually opened diplomatic relations with Israel without being paid.

The Arab world seems to have gradually shifted toward Shiite vs Sunni conflict. Iran is the only country actually willing to put it's money and missiles where their mouth is, and are now hell bent on creating nukes after Trump unilaterally abrogated the "no nukes pledge" that had been carefully crafted to avoid nuclear arms in Iran.

Iran doesn't actually want to USE nuclear arms, they want it as a strategic detterent because Israel routinely drops random bombs in Iran.

Syria is in disarray and Pakistan has nukes so nobody fucks with Pakistan.

Lebanon still seeks revenge for Israel's complicity in the Hezbollah war and will eventually retaliate. Israel deserves this. In the interim, Israel's air force routinely "practices" aerial bombing runs and supersonic overflight by fighter jets to intimidate Lebanon. Once Lebanon gets state of the art Air Defense Artillery the rules change.

Have I missed any country?

Qatar.

 

[Rightguide]

an "Existential Threat" generally has stuff like food, water and access to some sort of medical care to be viable.
Israel's genocidal campaign has removed all strategic stores from Hamas (and civilians too, but Israel doesn't care about civilians).

Hamas is not an "existential threat" by any means right now. People in the Middle East have very long memories though (see also: Iran) so Israel can expect retaliation in about two decades. Actions have consequences.

I disagree. I think they will face continued retaliatory aggression from here on out.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I disagree. I think they will face continued retaliatory aggression from here on out.

You may be right, A lot of people feel that way.

 

[Rightguide]

You may be right, A lot of people feel that way.

Both from Lebanon, Syria, maybe even Egypt, with Turkey looming in the distance.

 

[butters]

the IDF knew about hamas' plans but failed to take the threats seriously because of their belief in the "Iron Wall, composed of concrete, tunnels, and razor wire, complete with remote-controlled machine guns, that was installed two years before the attack" and so didn't take action to protect Israelis from it.
they had detailed observations of hamas tactics and planning a whole year before the attack.

The Israel Defense Force's Gaza Division reportedly distributed an internal intelligence document on September 19, 2023, outlining the details of Hamas' planned raid, according to Kan.

The document, which Kan reportedly saw, states that the IDF had observed Hamas conducting a series of trainings where militant fighters practiced attacking both Israeli military stations and civilian kibbutzim communities.

The IDF also knew, according to the document viewed by Kan, that Hamas trained its units on how to capture hostages and how to guard them once they were taken back to the Gaza Strip.

The IDF's Southern Command and Gaza Division also wrote in the document, according to Kan, that they expected Hamas to take between 200 and 250 hostages. The officials even had intel on how Hamas intended to treat the hostages in certain extreme circumstances and what rules Hamas set for executing hostages, Kan reported.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=6958920238244d7bb327d3a644a0c03f&ei=38

 

[Lazaran]

the IDF knew about hamas' plans but failed to take the threats seriously because of their belief in the "Iron Wall, composed of concrete, tunnels, and razor wire, complete with remote-controlled machine guns, that was installed two years before the attack" and so didn't take action to protect Israelis from it.
they had detailed observations of hamas tactics and planning a whole year before the attack.




https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=6958920238244d7bb327d3a644a0c03f&ei=38

And for that ^, Netanyahu and others responsible for allowing the attack to take place should be held accountable.

A shameful dereliction of duty and their office.

 

[censurat]

the shit that Israel is attacked for when they DEFEND themselves AFTER the fact

would have been 800 worse if they had defended themselves in teh absence of an attack

STFU with the BS

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=b01356c2940542bc96ba01c316b5b3f9&ei=53