closed Thread

[KeithD]

The day after election day? When one decrepit old capitalist may or may not be replaced by another decrepit old capitalist? When Amerika will continue using its fortunes built on exploitation and white supremacy to continue funding nazism and genocide?

I probably won't. I'll snark and I'll moan about it, I'll make some off-color guillotine jokes and then I'll get over it. I've completely checked out on what happens to this damn country.

Good thing, too. Otherwise, I would have long ago pulled a James Hodgkinson.

You certainly do have snark down. Wallow as you like. I'll not join you in that.

 

[JohnEngelman]

I'm really scratching my head on how those two things go together.

(And, psst. Trump isn't going to win. He can hype the media coverage; he can't hype the ballot box.)

Right now convicted felon Trump is looking at the possibility of a four year prison sentence.

 

[komesh]

بمب های اتمی که بر روی هیروشیما و ناکازاکی انداخته شد حدود 200000 نفر را کشتند نه 3000000. اگر بمب‌های اتمی ژاپنی‌ها را مبهوت نمی‌کرد، احتمالاً تعداد کشته‌ها در ژاپن بیشتر می‌شد.

اعراب غزه در جنگی که در 7 اکتبر آغاز کردند شکست خورده اند. اگر تسلیم اسراییل شوند و از غم های نسل کشی خود دست بکشند، هنوز هم می توان جان بسیاری را نجات داد.

بمب های اتمی که بر روی هیروشیما و ناکازاکی انداخته شد حدود 200000 نفر را کشتند نه 3000000. اگر بمب‌های اتمی ژاپنی‌ها را مبهوت نمی‌کرد، احتمالاً تعداد کشته‌ها در ژاپن بیشتر می‌شد.

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed about 200,000 people, not 3,000,000. The death toll in Japan would likely have been higher had the atom bombs not stunned the Japanese into surrendering.

The Arabs in Gaza have lost the war they started on October 7th. Many lives could still be saved if they would surrender to Israel, and abandon their genocidal dreams.

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed about 200,000 people, not 3,000,000. The death toll in Japan would likely have been higher had the atom bombs not stunned the Japanese into surrendering.

The Arabs in Gaza have lost the war they started on October 7th. Many lives could still be saved if they would surrender to Israel, and abandon their genocidal dreams.

Yes, You are right, 200000 Japanese were killed during the war.
The war between Japan and America was between two classic armies, but the case in Gaze is quite different. In Gaze, the war is between an advanced classic army of Isreal, and a fist of terrorists, Hamas. In a classic war, you know exactly where the front line is and where the back line is, so if somebody is killed, he or she is a soldier, but in a partisan war, you don't know who is a partisan and the regular people. Therefore, to kill a partisan, who is hiding among the regular people, you should kill too many people until you kill a partisan you are not sure who you kill, and you should fight house by house blindly. Now, it is happening in Gaze daily, and the result is the killing of 37000 innocent people who may be just a few thousand Hamas members among them, plus a burning land.
BB made the great mistake of being involved in a dirty war whose end is unknown. Gaze- Isreail War is the same as the Vietnam War. The American army had to leave Vietnam without achieving anything. If BB does not agree to size fire and accept the two states, this war will come to the same conclusion as the Vietnam War.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Yes, You are right, 200000 Japanese were killed during the war.
The war between Japan and America was between two classic armies, but the case in Gaze is quite different. In Gaze, the war is between an advanced classic army of Isreal, and a fist of terrorists, Hamas. In a classic war, you know exactly where the front line is and where the back line is, so if somebody is killed, he or she is a soldier, but in a partisan war, you don't know who is a partisan and the regular people. Therefore, to kill a partisan, who is hiding among the regular people, you should kill too many people until you kill a partisan you are not sure who you kill, and you should fight house by house blindly. Now, it is happening in Gaze daily, and the result is the killing of 37000 innocent people who may be just a few thousand Hamas members among them, plus a burning land.
BB made the great mistake of being involved in a dirty war whose end is unknown. Gaze- Isreail War is the same as the Vietnam War. The American army had to leave Vietnam without achieving anything. If BB does not agree to size fire and accept the two states, this war will come to the same conclusion as the Vietnam War.

200,000 was the Japanese death toll just for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not the whole war. The planned American invasion of the home islands would have been house-to-house fighting like you describe and the losses on both sides would have been horrific.

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

 

[komesh]

200,000 was the Japanese death toll just for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not the whole war. The planned American invasion of the home islands would have been house-to-house fighting like you describe and the losses on both sides would have been horrific.

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

200,000 was the Japanese death toll just for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not the whole war. The planned American invasion of the home islands would have been house-to-house fighting like you describe and the losses on both sides would have been horrific.

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

According to the World War II Museum, about 400,000 American soldiers died during six years of war, which means about 5,550 persons each month. Roughly calculation shows during 7 months of the war, about 37000 Americans died in the classic World War II, and the same number means 37000 Palestinians who % 90 of them were civilians were killed in the Gaze. So, how do you compare these two categories? W W II was a classic war, but the War of Gaze is between a classic army and a group of partisans!!!

I

 

[komesh]

I hope BB decides to end this dirty war as soon as possible, otherwise, there will be no more peace for either side and more than 40,000 died on both sides plus a burned land for Palestinians. And, do not forget you can kill people, you can burn their homes, but you can not buy peace, love, and eliminate hate.!!!!

 

[RobDownSouth]

<tiresome WW2 false equivalency snipped>

The War is Gaza is nothing like the war in Vietnam. Israel can't just walk away from an existential threat. It will continue fighting until the hostages are returned and Hamas is defanged. The Arabs could hasten the end by surrendering like the Japanese did--giving up on a futile apocalyptic dream to prevent further bloodshed.

an "Existential Threat" generally has stuff like food, water and access to some sort of medical care to be viable.
Israel's genocidal campaign has removed all strategic stores from Hamas (and civilians too, but Israel doesn't care about civilians).

Hamas is not an "existential threat" by any means right now. People in the Middle East have very long memories though (see also: Iran) so Israel can expect retaliation in about two decades. Actions have consequences.

 

[censurat]

I wish there was a mass starvation

Sadly there isnt

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-gaza-famine-that-wasnt/

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

an "Existential Threat" generally has stuff like food, water and access to some sort of medical care to be viable.
Israel's genocidal campaign has removed all strategic stores from Hamas (and civilians too, but Israel doesn't care about civilians).

Hamas is not an "existential threat" by any means right now. People in the Middle East have very long memories though (see also: Iran) so Israel can expect retaliation in about two decades. Actions have consequences.

The rest of the Arabs—who rule most of the Middle East, including Iran—want to eradicate Israel.

Since Israel has defeated them every time they’ve attacked openly, they’ve carried on a covert war for decades cynically using the Arabs in Palestine as weapons.

 

[DemonDanielle404]

The rest of the Arabs—who rule most of the Middle East, including Iran—want to eradicate Israel.

Since Israel has defeated them every time they’ve attacked openly, they’ve carried on a covert war for decades cynically using the Arabs in Palestine as weapons.

BrightShinyGirl, Iranians are not Arabs, they're Farsi.

For that matter, Israelis are not real Jews, they're White Khazars. Black people are actually Jew, and since this passes from mother to daughter, then only black and mixed women are True Jew.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The rest of the Arabs—who rule most of the Middle East, including Iran—want to eradicate Israel.

Since Israel has defeated them every time they’ve attacked openly, they’ve carried on a covert war for decades cynically using the Arabs in Palestine as weapons.

No they don't. They posture and preen and do it for domestic consumption. Egypt gets paid billions each year by the US not to antagonize Israel and they have kept their word since 1978. Saudi Arabia started making noises last year that they want a payoff similar to Egypt. UAE and Qatar actually opened diplomatic relations with Israel without being paid.

The Arab world seems to have gradually shifted toward Shiite vs Sunni conflict. Iran is the only country actually willing to put it's money and missiles where their mouth is, and are now hell bent on creating nukes after Trump unilaterally abrogated the "no nukes pledge" that had been carefully crafted to avoid nuclear arms in Iran.

Iran doesn't actually want to USE nuclear arms, they want it as a strategic detterent because Israel routinely drops random bombs in Iran.

Syria is in disarray and Pakistan has nukes so nobody fucks with Pakistan.

Lebanon still seeks revenge for Israel's complicity in the Hezbollah war and will eventually retaliate. Israel deserves this. In the interim, Israel's air force routinely "practices" aerial bombing runs and supersonic overflight by fighter jets to intimidate Lebanon. Once Lebanon gets state of the art Air Defense Artillery the rules change.

Have I missed any country?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

No they don't. They posture and preen and do it for domestic consumption. Egypt gets paid billions each year by the US not to antagonize Israel and they have kept their word since 1978. Saudi Arabia started making noises last year that they want a payoff similar to Egypt. UAE and Qatar actually opened diplomatic relations with Israel without being paid.

The Arab world seems to have gradually shifted toward Shiite vs Sunni conflict. Iran is the only country actually willing to put it's money and missiles where their mouth is, and are now hell bent on creating nukes after Trump unilaterally abrogated the "no nukes pledge" that had been carefully crafted to avoid nuclear arms in Iran.

Iran doesn't actually want to USE nuclear arms, they want it as a strategic detterent because Israel routinely drops random bombs in Iran.

Syria is in disarray and Pakistan has nukes so nobody fucks with Pakistan.

Lebanon still seeks revenge for Israel's complicity in the Hezbollah war and will eventually retaliate. Israel deserves this. In the interim, Israel's air force routinely "practices" aerial bombing runs and supersonic overflight by fighter jets to intimidate Lebanon. Once Lebanon gets state of the art Air Defense Artillery the rules change.

Have I missed any country?

Qatar.

 

[Rightguide]

an "Existential Threat" generally has stuff like food, water and access to some sort of medical care to be viable.
Israel's genocidal campaign has removed all strategic stores from Hamas (and civilians too, but Israel doesn't care about civilians).

Hamas is not an "existential threat" by any means right now. People in the Middle East have very long memories though (see also: Iran) so Israel can expect retaliation in about two decades. Actions have consequences.

I disagree. I think they will face continued retaliatory aggression from here on out.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I disagree. I think they will face continued retaliatory aggression from here on out.

You may be right, A lot of people feel that way.

 

[Rightguide]

You may be right, A lot of people feel that way.

Both from Lebanon, Syria, maybe even Egypt, with Turkey looming in the distance.

 

[butters]

the IDF knew about hamas' plans but failed to take the threats seriously because of their belief in the "Iron Wall, composed of concrete, tunnels, and razor wire, complete with remote-controlled machine guns, that was installed two years before the attack" and so didn't take action to protect Israelis from it.
they had detailed observations of hamas tactics and planning a whole year before the attack.

The Israel Defense Force's Gaza Division reportedly distributed an internal intelligence document on September 19, 2023, outlining the details of Hamas' planned raid, according to Kan.

The document, which Kan reportedly saw, states that the IDF had observed Hamas conducting a series of trainings where militant fighters practiced attacking both Israeli military stations and civilian kibbutzim communities.

The IDF also knew, according to the document viewed by Kan, that Hamas trained its units on how to capture hostages and how to guard them once they were taken back to the Gaza Strip.

The IDF's Southern Command and Gaza Division also wrote in the document, according to Kan, that they expected Hamas to take between 200 and 250 hostages. The officials even had intel on how Hamas intended to treat the hostages in certain extreme circumstances and what rules Hamas set for executing hostages, Kan reported.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=6958920238244d7bb327d3a644a0c03f&ei=38

 

[Lazaran]

the IDF knew about hamas' plans but failed to take the threats seriously because of their belief in the "Iron Wall, composed of concrete, tunnels, and razor wire, complete with remote-controlled machine guns, that was installed two years before the attack" and so didn't take action to protect Israelis from it.
they had detailed observations of hamas tactics and planning a whole year before the attack.




https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=6958920238244d7bb327d3a644a0c03f&ei=38

And for that ^, Netanyahu and others responsible for allowing the attack to take place should be held accountable.

A shameful dereliction of duty and their office.

 

[censurat]

the shit that Israel is attacked for when they DEFEND themselves AFTER the fact

would have been 800 worse if they had defended themselves in teh absence of an attack

STFU with the BS

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=b01356c2940542bc96ba01c316b5b3f9&ei=53

 

[RobDownSouth]

And for that ^, Netanyahu and others responsible for allowing the attack to take place should be held accountable.

A shameful dereliction of duty and their office.

The main offender in the Gaza Fuckup is Israeli Minister of Finance Bezalel Smotrich, one of the most racist human beings alive and a proponent of perpetual war. He represents the West Bank criminals in the Knesset, and without his control of 10% of the Religious Zionist party, Netanyahu would not have been elected Prime Minister. Smotrich is probably the most racist politician in Israel and has dedicated his life to wiping out non-Jewish people in the Middle East.

Smotrich's support came at a steep price: He only agreed to support Netanyahu if Netanyahu would deploy 3 battalions of IDF troops to the West Bank, to back up West Bank looters who pushed Palestinians out of their homes and create new 'settlements".

Netanyahu did not have sufficient troops to do this, so he proposed removing the exemption from military service for Orthodox Jews. This caused yet another political crisis in Israel ("Orthodox Jewish Blood" > "Jewish Blood" > "Goyim Blood") but eventually it was decided to create the world's first Orthodox Jewish battle group, with strict observance of Orthodox rules. It is the equivalent of one battalion sized organization, and has been deployed to the West Bank, presumably to kill civilians.

This left Netanyahu two battalions short in the West Bank, and to keep his political position he had to re-deploy the "prison guards" on the landside border of Israel-Gaza to the West Bank.

This was a tremendous gamble but didn't seem that way at the time. The Iron Dome air defense was a relative success in Israel (which IDF Public Affairs puffed up to a Trumpian "near infallible") and the new untested Iron Wall defense (13 heavily fortified super-machine-gun towers with interlocking fields of fire) were believed to be sufficient by Israeli generals. It obviously could not be tested under "real world conditions".

Hamas noted the lack of IDF troops at the border and immediately made plans to take out the Iron Wall. It took them a year to do this (2022-2023). Mossad intelligence noticed Hamas conducting military training featuring tower assaults, but it was dismissed by....somebody, we don't know exactly who. Might be a case of wishful thinking.

October 7th came and Hamas destroyed 12 of 13 Iron Wall towers after about 4 hours of intense combat. The 13th tower worked as advertised and wiped out several companies (exact count unknown) of Hama infantry and armored pickup truck cavalry. The other twelve towers were destroyed by combat engineers and sappers. (Think: medieval castle siege and/or "The Guns of Navaronne" from WW2)

This was probably the biggest defeat modern Israel had ever experienced (The Yom Kippur war had the potential for being the biggest route of Israel in history, only a massive influx of US arms saved Israel's bacon). Naturally, this embarrassed the hell out of the Israeli government, which (not unlike the USA after 9/11) began a half-assed retaliation with no strategic plan other than to "break stuff".

Israel had no one but themselves to blame for 10/7. You can't build the "world's largest outdoor prison" and complain when the "inmates" notice the guards have left.
.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Former IDF Army General and current Netanyahu cabinet member Benny Gantz gave Netanyahu a hard deadline: present your strategy for concluding operations in Gaza by June 8th or he would resign in protest.

Netanyahu delivered his strategy and Gantz resigned anyway.

Netanyahu's end strategy? A permanent military occupation of Gaza and the establishment of (illegal) Israeli settlements within Gaza. Just like the West Bank.

The Germans had a word for that...."Lebensraum".

 

[Lazaran]

The main offender in the Gaza Fuckup is Israeli Minister of Finance Bezalel Smotrich, one of the most racist human beings alive and a proponent of perpetual war. He represents the West Bank criminals in the Knesset, and without his control of 10% of the Religious Zionist party, Netanyahu would not have been elected Prime Minister. Smotrich is probably the most racist politician in Israel and has dedicated his life to wiping out non-Jewish people in the Middle East.

Smotrich's support came at a steep price: He only agreed to support Netanyahu if Netanyahu would deploy 3 battalions of IDF troops to the West Bank, to back up West Bank looters who pushed Palestinians out of their homes and create new 'settlements".

Netanyahu did not have sufficient troops to do this, so he proposed removing the exemption from military service for Orthodox Jews. This caused yet another political crisis in Israel ("Orthodox Jewish Blood" > "Jewish Blood" > "Goyim Blood") but eventually it was decided to create the world's first Orthodox Jewish battle group, with strict observance of Orthodox rules. It is the equivalent of one battalion sized organization, and has been deployed to the West Bank, presumably to kill civilians.

This left Netanyahu two battalions short in the West Bank, and to keep his political position he had to re-deploy the "prison guards" on the landside border of Israel-Gaza to the West Bank.

This was a tremendous gamble but didn't seem that way at the time. The Iron Dome air defense was a relative success in Israel (which IDF Public Affairs puffed up to a Trumpian "near infallible") and the new untested Iron Wall defense (13 heavily fortified super-machine-gun towers with interlocking fields of fire) were believed to be sufficient by Israeli generals. It obviously could not be tested under "real world conditions".

Hamas noted the lack of IDF troops at the border and immediately made plans to take out the Iron Wall. It took them a year to do this (2022-2023). Mossad intelligence noticed Hamas conducting military training featuring tower assaults, but it was dismissed by....somebody, we don't know exactly who. Might be a case of wishful thinking.

October 7th came and Hamas destroyed 12 of 13 Iron Wall towers after about 4 hours of intense combat. The 13th tower worked as advertised and wiped out several companies (exact count unknown) of Hama infantry and armored pickup truck cavalry. The other twelve towers were destroyed by combat engineers and sappers. (Think: medieval castle siege and/or "The Guns of Navaronne" from WW2)

This was probably the biggest defeat modern Israel had ever experienced (The Yom Kippur war had the potential for being the biggest route of Israel in history, only a massive influx of US arms saved Israel's bacon). Naturally, this embarrassed the hell out of the Israeli government, which (not unlike the USA after 9/11) began a half-assed retaliation with no strategic plan other than to "break stuff".

Israel had no one but themselves to blame for 10/7. You can't build the "world's largest outdoor prison" and complain when the "inmates" notice the guards have left.
.

Remind me again what precipitated / necessitated the Israeli settlements in Gaza and The West Bank after Israel declared independence post WWII and the ACTUAL genocide that had been perpetrated against the Jews???



Remind me again what happened when the Israelis abandoned the settlements in Gaza???



The fact is: The Arabs / Muslims in the region have been playing “Boil the frog” with Israel since Israel declared its independence, by engaging in perpetual open warfare, terror attacks, and gray-zone warfare, in a transparent attempt to wear down the Israeli’s resolve, and to steal / appropriate ALL of the Israeli’s hard won territory and treasure.

FUCK THAT ^ !!!

 

[Rightguide]

Legal, Military Experts Call to Reevaluate Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ After Hostage Rescue Reveals Hamas Complicity​

JOSHUA KLEIN20 Jun 2024

In light of the recent dramatic rescue of four Israeli hostages held by Palestinian civilians, a legal expert and military specialist are urging a reevaluation of use of the term “Palestinian civilian,” arguing that those participating in hostilities, such as hostage-taking and other Hamas crimes, lose their civilian status under international law.

In an essay published in Newsweek on Monday, international human rights lawyer Arsen Ostrovsky along with retired United States Army major and world-renowned urban and warfare expert John Spencer, suggest that a review of the frequently used term “Palestinian civilian” as well as a commitment to truth are necessary steps in resolving the current conflict.

The piece, titled “It’s Time to Start Using the Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ Correctly,” begins by pointing to the “shocking revelation” that the four Israeli hostages rescued last week from Gaza were held in the homes of Palestinian civilians — including a popular journalist and respected physician.

With the successful operation “amazingly” condemned by the UN as a “war crime” and labeled a “massacre” by the EU, and as media outlets echoed casualty figures from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, the authors insisted now is the “perfect opportunity for a long-overdue conversation about the use of the phrase ‘Palestinian civilian.’”

More here: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...fter-hostage-rescue-reveals-hamas-complicity/

Terrorists are civilians.

 

[ll74]

Legal, Military Experts Call to Reevaluate Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ After Hostage Rescue Reveals Hamas Complicity​

JOSHUA KLEIN20 Jun 2024

In light of the recent dramatic rescue of four Israeli hostages held by Palestinian civilians, a legal expert and military specialist are urging a reevaluation of use of the term “Palestinian civilian,” arguing that those participating in hostilities, such as hostage-taking and other Hamas crimes, lose their civilian status under international law.

In an essay published in Newsweek on Monday, international human rights lawyer Arsen Ostrovsky along with retired United States Army major and world-renowned urban and warfare expert John Spencer, suggest that a review of the frequently used term “Palestinian civilian” as well as a commitment to truth are necessary steps in resolving the current conflict.

The piece, titled “It’s Time to Start Using the Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ Correctly,” begins by pointing to the “shocking revelation” that the four Israeli hostages rescued last week from Gaza were held in the homes of Palestinian civilians — including a popular journalist and respected physician.

With the successful operation “amazingly” condemned by the UN as a “war crime” and labeled a “massacre” by the EU, and as media outlets echoed casualty figures from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, the authors insisted now is the “perfect opportunity for a long-overdue conversation about the use of the phrase ‘Palestinian civilian.’”

More here: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...fter-hostage-rescue-reveals-hamas-complicity/

Terrorists are civilians.

People who participate in hostilities are not civilians.

Correct.

 

[censurat]

People who participate in hostilities are not civilians.

Correct.

you only know that after the fact