closed Thread

[RobDownSouth]

The Arabs have spent 80 years trying to wipe Israel off the map and kill all the Jews. Until they give up on that dream, there will be no peace regardless of what Israel does.

And the Israelis have been trying to wipe out both Gaza and the West Bank for the past two decades.

Israel isn't even hiding their ambition any longer, they thumb their nose at the international community and play the victim card when caught doing their more egregious crimes (carving Star of David on captives' back, pillaging abandoned homes, squatting despite treaties claiming they would not. snipers targeting doctors and journalists),

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Cease fire only happens when Hamas is vaporized.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

And the Israelis have been trying to wipe out both Gaza and the West Bank for the past two decades.

Israel isn't even hiding their ambition any longer, they thumb their nose at the international community and play the victim card when caught doing their more egregious crimes (carving Star of David on captives' back, pillaging abandoned homes, squatting despite treaties claiming they would not. snipers targeting doctors and journalists),

Two decades ago Israel withdrew from Gaza. They haven't been "trying to wipe it out".

 

[contrifan32]

The question is irrelevant. Civilians must be protected. (Even the ones who refuse to call for Hamas to surrender)

bB refuses to acknowledge that Palestian civilians exist. He prefers genocide and has openly suggested as much in his posts in this thread

So are you of the belief if a question is irrelevant in your mind it does not need to be answered in a discussion?

 

[ll74]

So are you of the belief if a question is irrelevant in your mind it does not need to be answered in a discussion?

You're wanting a discussion about something that isn't relevant to me. However you need to accept that I'm not interested in the discussion is up to you.

 

[KeithD]

More . . . than . . . once . . . the Jews/Israel . . . have . . . invaded . . . an . . . already . . . inhabited . . . land . . . and . . . moved . . . to . . . be . . . the . . .only . . . ones . . . inhabiting . . . that . . . land. To . . . achieve . . . peace . . . in . . . that . . . land . . . THAT . . . has . . . to . . . be . . . one . . . of . . . the . . . current . . . realities . . . that . . . has . . . to . . . change. No, . . . God . . . didn't . . . give . . . them . . . that . . . land. They . . . invaded . . . and . . . seized . . . it. It . . . was . . . someone . . . else's . . . land. It's . . . too . . . late . . . in . . . the . . .game . . . to . . . displace . . . Israel . . . But . . . it's . . . way . . . past . . . time . . . to . . . give . . . better . . . accommodation . . . to . . . the . . . original . . . inhabitants . . . who . . . Israel . . . has . . . been . . . suppressing.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

More . . . than . . . once . . . the Jews/Israel . . . have . . . invaded . . . an . . . already . . . inhabited . . . land . . . and . . . moved . . . to . . . be . . . the . . .only . . . ones . . . inhabiting . . . that . . . land. To . . . achieve . . . peace . . . in . . . that . . . land . . . THAT . . . has . . . to . . . be . . . one . . . of . . . the . . . current . . . realities . . . that . . . has . . . to . . . change. No, . . . God . . . didn't . . . give . . . them . . . that . . . land. They . . . invaded . . . and . . . seized . . . it. It . . . was . . . someone . . . else's . . . land. It's . . . too . . . late . . . in . . . the . . .game . . . to . . . displace . . . Israel . . . But . . . it's . . . way . . . past . . . time . . . to . . . give . . . better . . . accommodation . . . to . . . the . . . original . . . inhabitants . . . who . . . Israel . . . has . . . been . . . suppressing.

The Jews have been living in Israel for millennia, surviving under the thumbs of wave after wave of conquerors--the Greeks, the Romans, the Arabs, the Turks. Many Jews did flee to other lands or were dragged away as slaves (the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim) but they still held out hope they could rejoin their Mizrahi brothers in the middle East. The need for a Jewish homeland become more urgent with the rise of antisemitism in the 19th Century. Jews were killed in pogrom after pogrom in Europe and the Middle East. It became clear that Jews could no longer afford to depend on the kindness of strangers, hence Zionism was born.

The Zionists bought enough land to form the nucleus of a little Jewish nation-state and pressured the British to partition Palestine into Arab and Jewish sectors. Most of Arab Palestine became Jordan except Gaza which was attached to Egypt. But the Arabs weren't content. They wanted it ALL. And that fever dream has been the cause of 80 years of bloodshed.

 

[ll74]

More . . . than . . . once . . . the Jews/Israel . . . have . . . invaded . . . an . . . already . . . inhabited . . . land . . . and . . . moved . . . to . . . be . . . the . . .only . . . ones . . . inhabiting . . . that . . . land. To . . . achieve . . . peace . . . in . . . that . . . land . . . THAT . . . has . . . to . . . be . . . one . . . of . . . the . . . current . . . realities . . . that . . . has . . . to . . . change. No, . . . God . . . didn't . . . give . . . them . . . that . . . land. They . . . invaded . . . and . . . seized . . . it. It . . . was . . . someone . . . else's . . . land. It's . . . too . . . late . . . in . . . the . . .game . . . to . . . displace . . . Israel . . . But . . . it's . . . way . . . past . . . time . . . to . . . give . . . better . . . accommodation . . . to . . . the . . . original . . . inhabitants . . . who . . . Israel . . . has . . . been . . . suppressing.

WTF is this mess?

 

[KeithD]

WTF is this mess?

An attempt to get some folks to actual focus on the reality of the issue. And I don't think it's a mess at all.

 

[ll74]

An attempt to get some folks to actual focus on the reality of the issue. And I don't think it's a mess at all.

It is a mess. It doesn't make me focus any differently than I already am and I have no reason to skip over your odd formatting BS to get your message.

Maybe try something else

 

[KeithD]

The Jews have been living in Israel for millennia,

They weren't there first. What part of the Jericho story can't you absorb? It's the Jews' own chronicled history. They are quite proud of crossing the Jordan and wiping out the inhabitants of Jericho in invading and seizing someone else's land and displacing them (and, in their own description, killing every living being, human and animal alike). It doesn't matter that they have been there for millennia when the reality was that there were those there already and the Jews invaded, slaughtered, and have been doing all they can to displace them.

God, you're thick on this point. Thick to the point of taking the attention to where it belongs--that folks were already there when they arrived--and not being able to absorb what that does to your argument.

 

[KeithD]

It is a mess. It doesn't make me focus any differently than I already am and I have no reason to skip over your odd formatting BS to get your message.

Maybe try something else

Or maybe you not demanding to be catered to.

 

[ll74]

Or maybe you not demanding to be catered to.

Lol, whatever works for ya

The reality of the situation is that Hamas still has hostages and has refused to surrender while preferring to put its own people in harms way

 

[KeithD]

Lol, whatever works for ya

The reality of the situation is that Hamas still has hostages and has refused to surrender while preferring to put its own people in harms way

Israel has Palestinian hostages too. They just didn't pick them up in as a disgusting way as Hamas did. In fact, they've got way more than Hamas has. Check the numbers of hostages Hamas has released in swaps to the number Israel has released. And most of the Palestinians in Israeli custody weren't afforded the same regard that Israeli citizens would be in the circumstance in which they'd been incarcerated.

No, I'm not a Hamas fan. Nor do I think Israel should be forced out of the region. I think Hamas should be wiped out. But some of you folks have been running on guilt fumes about Israel for far, far too long--and especially so in terms of the suppression of the Palestinians.

 

[komesh]

who can believe these kids are terrorists!!! They are just looking for their toys in their destroyed homes.

 

[ll74]

Israel has Palestinian hostages too. They just didn't pick them up in as a disgusting way as Hamas did. In fact, they've got way more than Hamas has. Check the numbers of hostages Hamas has released in swaps to the number Israel has released. And most of the Palestinians in Israeli custody weren't afforded the same regard that Israeli citizens would be in the circumstance in which they'd been incarcerated.

No, I'm not a Hamas fan. Nor do I think Israel should be forced out of the region. I think Hamas should be wiped out. But some of you folks have been running on guilt fumes about Israel for far, far too long--and especially so in terms of the suppression of the Palestinians.

I see Hamas literally putting its own people in harms way on purpose. I don't see Israel doing that.

If Hamas fought fair or cared about their cause, I'd probably have more sympathy for them. I continue to call for both sides of the war to protect civilians.

 

[KeithD]

I see Hamas literally putting its own people in harms way on purpose. I don't see Israel doing that.

If Hamas fought fair or cared about their cause, I'd probably have more sympathy for them. I continue to call for both sides of the war to protect civilians.

No, Hamas doesn't give much priority to the welfare of Palestinian civilians. That doesn't make Israel any sort of saint. Israel gives even less regard for Palestinian citizens. And, worse than that, Israel drives Palestinians into the arms of Hamas and does so knowing that folks they have guilted for eighty years will not see Israel's role in the radicalization of Palestinians.

"If Hamas fought fair." My god, you are politically naive. We'll just put that on the laugh shelf with "Hamas should surrender," shall we?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

They weren't there first. What part of the Jericho story can't you absorb? It's the Jews' own chronicled history. They are quite proud of crossing the Jordan and wiping out the inhabitants of Jericho in invading and seizing someone else's land and displacing them (and, in their own description, killing every living being, human and animal alike). It doesn't matter that they have been there for millennia when the reality was that there were those there already and the Jews invaded, slaughtered, and have been doing all they can to displace them.

God, you're thick on this point. Thick to the point of taking the attention to where it belongs--that folks were already there when they arrived--and not being able to absorb what that does to your argument.

The Arabs are not indigenous to Palestine. We can't undo the Arab conquests of the last 1400 years, but the Arabs don't have more right to Jerusalem than the Jews do just because they built a mosque on top of the ruins of the Jewish temple.

 

[ll74]

No, Hamas doesn't give much priority to the welfare of Palestinian civilians. That doesn't make Israel any sort of saint. Israel gives even less regard for Palestinian citizens. And, worse than that, Israel drives Palestinians into the arms of Hamas and does so knowing that folks they have guilted for eighty years will not see Israel's role in the radicalization of Palestinians.

I have seen much more effort from Israel to protect civilians. Are they saints? Nobody is a saint in war. I support peace and the return of hostages.

"If Hamas fought fair." My god, you are politically naive. We'll just put that on the laugh shelf with "Hamas should surrender," shall we?

Hamas has nothing to gain here except holding off their demise. They have no objectives except not to be killed at this point. Surrendering would be their best option.

 

[komesh]

Here is more evidence of destroying the houses and lives of the incense people!!!
These people are humans, not animals as the defense minister of Israel calls them animals.
So, obviously we can not buy love by seeing these pics, but hate. That's why the hate rises!!

 

[Lazaran]

If Hamas fought fair." My god, you are politically naive. We'll just put that on the laugh shelf with "Hamas should surrender," shall we?

You seriously don’t understand the reason decent, intelligent people bring in the issue of Hamas not fighting “fair” and the suggestion that “Hamas should surrender” in light of the INCESSANT demands that Israel should fight “fair”, and that Israel should end the war while Hamas is still in control of Gaza???



Context and a bit of PURPOSEFUL cynical / sarcastic rhetoric are fairly important elements to consider when judging the statements relating to Hamas fighting “fair” and Hamas “surrendering” that are being made by decent, intelligent people who want the war to end differently than some other people do.

 

[KeithD]

You seriously don’t understand the reason decent, intelligent people bring in the issue of Hamas not fighting “fair” and the suggestion that “Hamas should surrender” in light of the INCESSANT demands that Israel should fight “fair”, and that Israel should end the war while Hamas is still in control of Gaza???

You, among others, are seriously a mental baby in understanding how the world works and what the parameters are in hoping to get something done.

I'm done with you naive people.

 

[Lazaran]

You, among others, are seriously a mental baby in understanding how the world works and what the parameters are in hoping to get something done.

I'm done with you naive people.

You SHOULD probably be “done”, because you aren’t keeping up with the context, sarcasm, and cynicism in the exchanges.

 

[komesh]

The Zionists invaded Palestine. There were already people there. Israel has spent eighty years subjugating, corralling, and marginalizing the people who they invaded. If you want to go back further, Moses' tribe invaded what was later Palestine. There were already people there. First stop was wiping out every living thing in Jericho.

Don't talk to me about dreams of homeland and "wiping out." Yes, nothing is going to work until the extremists are separated from the people on the street. But just stop saying it's the Palestinians who have to do this. It's the Israelis that do this too--And, honey child, it's the Israelis who were the invaders. As long as you won't get past demanding only from Palestinians, you're part of the problem, not the solution.

Yes, the Zionist's idealogy is the greatest enemy of the Israeli people, otherwise, the Israelis and Palestinians can live in peace together. If we do not give rights to the Palestinians who have lived in Palestine for more than 3000 years, to have their state, there would not be any peace for both sides. It is the only fact that BB has to understand otherwise the victims are not only Palestinians but also Israelis.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Two decades ago Israel withdrew from Gaza. They haven't been "trying to wipe it out".

The Israelis subsequently created a 17 year naval blockade of Gaza, prohibiting international trade and the importation of food, fuel and medical supplies. And some Israeli politicians joked that they succeeded in creating the "world's largest outdoor prison".

Slow strangulation of an entire populace over the course of almost two decades certainly fits MY definition of "trying to wipe it out". YMMV.