Monday, April 15th: First Ever Criminal Trial for a Former US President

[adrina]

Multi-day meltdown boy telling us to stop the drama.

Okey dokey.

 

[coati]

Multi-day meltdown boy telling us to stop the drama.

Okey dokey.

Looks like the MAGAts will be pitching a fit over this felony conviction for a long time.

Tough shit, MAGAts. If you get in bed with a dirty dog, you might get fleas.

 

[adrina]

Looks like the MAGAts will be pitching a fit over this felony conviction for a long time.

Tough shit, MAGAts. If you get in bed with a dirty dog, you might get fleas.

That's exactly it. They support Trump because of how he makes them feel. So they go to insane lengths to justify and rationalize him.

 

[coati]

Fuck their feelings.

 

[adrina]

Fuck their feelings.

People better vote.

 

[coati]

People better vote.

Yes, I limit my online time, because most of my time is spent doing political and legal actions IRL, which is the most effective way to keep crooks out of office.

Retail politics is how we got Hobbs, Mayes, and Fontes elected in right-wing Arizona. While the MAGAts were raging online, we were organizing on the ground.

 

[AlexBailey]

You know the answer to that question already so you're not really asking anything you're just posting words like you think you're making a point.

Here's the part you don't get, SCOTUS will eventually hear this matter. That there are intermediate appellate steps between now and then doesn't change that reality.

Now I have a question for you:

IF Trump is elected in November, and he becomes Commander in Chief again, can he lawfully declare martial law and order the National Guard to break him out of prison in NY?

That’s an interesting question that basically comes down to whether or not Trump respects the rule of law. We’ve seen that he doesn’t and there is no reason to assume he will.

I was asking about the elevation from state to federal in good faith but I now have answers from many different sources, nothing from you. No surprise there. Every time I ask you to provide a genuine legal perspective you demur.

Have your heard Joe Tocopina’s latest input on this case?

Check out his words starting at 4:20 in the video below to see what he thinks about the right wing talking point that the Biden DOJ had a hand in the prosecution.


“Even Trump’s lawyers know that’s not the case…” - said in regards to judicial influence from the federal DOJ.

“They have absolutely no jurisdiction…”

His only real criticism of the case is that it “….would not have been brought against any other defendant.” Yet he also acknowledges that it was still properly adjudicated.

 

[HisArpy]

That’s an interesting question that basically comes down to whether or not Trump respects the rule of law. We’ve seen that he doesn’t and there is no reason to assume he will.

I was asking about the elevation from state to federal in good faith but I now have answers from many different sources, nothing from you. No surprise there. Every time I ask you to provide a genuine legal perspective you demur.

Have your heard Joe Tocopina’s latest input on this case?

Check out his words starting at 4:20 in the video below to see what he thinks about the right wing talking point that the Biden DOJ had a hand in the prosecution.


“Even Trump’s lawyers know that’s not the case…” - said in regards to judicial influence from the federal DOJ.

“They have absolutely no jurisdiction…”

His only real criticism of the case is that it “….would not have been brought against any other defendant.” Yet he also acknowledges that it was still properly adjudicated.

If that's what you want to think, no one is going to stop you.

We will, of course, point and laugh at the appropriate moments.

 

[AlexBailey]

If that's what you want to think, no one is going to stop you.

We will, of course, point and laugh at the appropriate moments.

I’m curious, what’s your answer to your own question:


“IF Trump is elected in November, and he becomes Commander in Chief again, can he lawfully declare martial law and order the National Guard to break him out of prison in NY?”

 

[Tattlebaby]

All of these fraud convictions almost make you forget that he's a rapist and adulterer.

And just generally a douchebag with really bad hair. Oh, the douchebag thing's not a crime? Well, he should get The Chair for The Hair alone.

 

[Tattlebaby]

If that's what you want to think, no one is going to stop you.

We will, of course, point and laugh at the appropriate moments.

Points and laughs at the Repubmaga hypocrite.

 

[Bn2f]

I’m curious, what’s your answer to your own question:


“IF Trump is elected in November, and he becomes Commander in Chief again, can he lawfully declare martial law and order the National Guard to break him out of prison in NY?”

AB, how dare you?!
This is the type of common sense question that makes HisA quickly flee a thread!
You take away the PB’s fun!

 

[IrezumiKiss]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797088661600719180

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797088661600719180

Referring to fictional characters as real people should also get someone banned from running for office.

 

[RobDownSouth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797088661600719180

That is genuinely sad, and if it was anyone other than convicted felon Donald Trump, I'd probably feel sorry for him. He's lost it.

 

[HisArpy]

I’m curious, what’s your answer to your own question:


“IF Trump is elected in November, and he becomes Commander in Chief again, can he lawfully declare martial law and order the National Guard to break him out of prison in NY?”

My answer is that I don't know.

Legally he isn't President until he's sworn in. However, after the election he is President elect, should he win the election. Once Biden's term ends on Jan 21st and Trump cannot be sworn in because he's being imprisoned and the prison won't allow anyone to perform a swearing in ceremony, what then?

Who is president after Jan 21, 2024 if Trump is elected but cannot be sworn in? On the surface one might say that the VP becomes President but that's not the way it works. The House cannot just "pick" someone if there is already a duly elected President. Nor can they follow the constitutional line of succession to place the speaker into the office of President. Why? Because there IS a President elect already who is eligible but is being prevented from taking the oath of office. It's not that he "cannot" assume the duties of the office of the President, it's that he's being "prevented" from doing so by a state actor.

In a nutshell, one state has determined that Trump cannot be President even if he's elected. This violates the concept of federalism in which states cannot dictate the actions of the Federal government.

Basically all of that creates a Constitutional crisis in which the US has no President because the opposing and outgoing party is prohibiting the elected President from assuming office by imprisoning him and no replacement can lawfully be made.

If, however, the President elect assumes the mantle of commander in chief after Jan 21st by virtue of his being elected even without the oath being administered, then lawfully he could declare martial law and order the NG break him out of prison. Fortunately/unfortunately there's no precedent for this.

So the answer is; I don't know.

What I do know is that almost no one on the Left even considered this possibility or the consequences which naturally flow from it. Whether it comes to pass or not depends on whether the SCOTUS takes up the matter and decides if Trump's conviction/possible imprisonment is lawful or not. If it isn't then a lot of people who are currently jumping for joy are going to catch hell.

If it is lawful, then all of us are going to catch hell.

 

[coati]

Basically all of that creates a Constitutional crisis in which the US has no President because the opposing and outgoing party is prohibiting the elected President from assuming office by imprisoning him and no replacement can lawfully be made.

If, however, the President elect assumes the mantle of commander in chief after Jan 21st by virtue of his being elected even without the oath being administered, then lawfully he could declare martial law and order the NG break him out of prison. Fortunately/unfortunately there's no precedent for this.

Sorry, wrong answer, and one based on the false assertion the "opposing party" imprisoned the convicted felon. The oath could be administered to his VP-elect who would assume duties until the President-elect is available for swearing in.

D-minus for you on that exam, Harpy.

Do over.

 

[Lazaran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797088661600719180

Sad, pathetic, and…HILARIOUS!!!

 

[IrezumiKiss]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797349769603407880

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797405760525418828

 

[stxjimmy]

It’s not that he "cannot" assume the duties of the office of the President, it's that he's being "prevented" from doing so by a state actor.

Wake up ffs, it’s his own actions and convictions that make him so unsuitable to be president.

 

[jomar]

My answer is that I don't know.

Legally he isn't President until he's sworn in. However, after the election he is President elect, should he win the election. Once Biden's term ends on Jan 21st and Trump cannot be sworn in because he's being imprisoned and the prison won't allow anyone to perform a swearing in ceremony, what then?

Who is president after Jan 21, 2024 if Trump is elected but cannot be sworn in? On the surface one might say that the VP becomes President but that's not the way it works. The House cannot just "pick" someone if there is already a duly elected President. Nor can they follow the constitutional line of succession to place the speaker into the office of President. Why? Because there IS a President elect already who is eligible but is being prevented from taking the oath of office. It's not that he "cannot" assume the duties of the office of the President, it's that he's being "prevented" from doing so by a state actor.

In a nutshell, one state has determined that Trump cannot be President even if he's elected. This violates the concept of federalism in which states cannot dictate the actions of the Federal government.

Basically all of that creates a Constitutional crisis in which the US has no President because the opposing and outgoing party is prohibiting the elected President from assuming office by imprisoning him and no replacement can lawfully be made.

If, however, the President elect assumes the mantle of commander in chief after Jan 21st by virtue of his being elected even without the oath being administered, then lawfully he could declare martial law and order the NG break him out of prison. Fortunately/unfortunately there's no precedent for this.

So the answer is; I don't know.

What I do know is that almost no one on the Left even considered this possibility or the consequences which naturally flow from it. Whether it comes to pass or not depends on whether the SCOTUS takes up the matter and decides if Trump's conviction/possible imprisonment is lawful or not. If it isn't then a lot of people who are currently jumping for joy are going to catch hell.

If it is lawful, then all of us are going to catch hell.

Huh, if a citizen can run for president from prison and wins, how can he/she be barred from being sworn in?

 

[Bn2f]

I’m curious, what’s your answer to your own question:

My answer is that I don't know.

WTF???!!!!

YOU DON’T KNOW?!

How you don’t know? I did not even read anything that he posted afterwards because this means that he was only looking to criticize your reply, as he does with some of the female posters here. You humiliated him into giving an answer. Well done!

HisArpy? Stop me please if you’ve heard this said before: A good lawyer never asks a question that he does not already know the answer to.

“You don’t know” .
I feel so sorry for you knowing whatever real occupation you have none of your coworkers respect your opinions to ask for or use them.

 

[AlexBailey]

My answer is that I don't know.

Legally he isn't President until he's sworn in. However, after the election he is President elect, should he win the election. Once Biden's term ends on Jan 21st and Trump cannot be sworn in because he's being imprisoned and the prison won't allow anyone to perform a swearing in ceremony, what then?

Who is president after Jan 21, 2024 if Trump is elected but cannot be sworn in? On the surface one might say that the VP becomes President but that's not the way it works. The House cannot just "pick" someone if there is already a duly elected President. Nor can they follow the constitutional line of succession to place the speaker into the office of President. Why? Because there IS a President elect already who is eligible but is being prevented from taking the oath of office. It's not that he "cannot" assume the duties of the office of the President, it's that he's being "prevented" from doing so by a state actor.

In a nutshell, one state has determined that Trump cannot be President even if he's elected. This violates the concept of federalism in which states cannot dictate the actions of the Federal government.

Basically all of that creates a Constitutional crisis in which the US has no President because the opposing and outgoing party is prohibiting the elected President from assuming office by imprisoning him and no replacement can lawfully be made.

If, however, the President elect assumes the mantle of commander in chief after Jan 21st by virtue of his being elected even without the oath being administered, then lawfully he could declare martial law and order the NG break him out of prison. Fortunately/unfortunately there's no precedent for this.

So the answer is; I don't know.

What I do know is that almost no one on the Left even considered this possibility or the consequences which naturally flow from it. Whether it comes to pass or not depends on whether the SCOTUS takes up the matter and decides if Trump's conviction/possible imprisonment is lawful or not. If it isn't then a lot of people who are currently jumping for joy are going to catch hell.

If it is lawful, then all of us are going to catch hell.

(Thanks for engaging in a real conversation. )


A lot of what you said hinges on two big what ifs.

1st. What will the sentence be? Michael Cohen did three years - part incarcerated and part in home confinement. Still that has no bearing on what Trump will be sentenced to. Maybe he could do 6 months and still be out in time for the inauguration and either be done or on home confinement, probation, or parole. Maybe he could just get probation to begin with.

2nd. What reason do you have to believe he couldn’t be inaugurated wherever he is?

Speculating that NY state would determine that Trump could not be sworn in seems silly but I suppose that needs to be legally considered as a possibility.

A “constitutional crisis” could arise if Judge Merchan doesn’t take any of this into account, but he has already displayed a willingness to give the “former president” special consideration, so a conflict that would prevent the handover of power seems unlikely. No?


Speaking of constitutional crises; what about Trump’s eligibility for a security clearance? He’s a convicted felon and has been indicted for 32 crimes related to mishandling of classified documents. How is that going to be sorted out?

 

[KeithD]

Speaking of constitutional crises; what about Trump’s eligibility for a security clearance? He’s a convicted felon and has been indicted for 32 crimes related to mishandling of classified documents. How is that going to be sorted out?

Trump didn't get a security clearance the first time he became president. I'm not aware of any president who was put through the clearance process if they hadn't already done so before running for/winning the presidency.

 

[HisArpy]

(Thanks for engaging in a real conversation. )


A lot of what you said hinges on two big what ifs.

1st. What will the sentence be? Michael Cohen did three years - part incarcerated and part in home confinement. Still that has no bearing on what Trump will be sentenced to. Maybe he could do 6 months and still be out in time for the inauguration and either be done or on home confinement, probation, or parole. Maybe he could just get probation to begin with.

2nd. What reason do you have to believe he couldn’t be inaugurated wherever he is?

Speculating that NY state would determine that Trump could not be sworn in seems silly but I suppose that needs to be legally considered as a possibility.

A “constitutional crisis” could arise if Judge Merchan doesn’t take any of this into account, but he has already displayed a willingness to give the “former president” special consideration, so a conflict that would prevent the handover of power seems unlikely. No?


Speaking of constitutional crises; what about Trump’s eligibility for a security clearance? He’s a convicted felon and has been indicted for 32 crimes related to mishandling of classified documents. How is that going to be sorted out?

First, go stuff your "real conversation" bullshit up your well worn asshole. You aren't having a "real conversation" here you're trying to spin the hell out of what happened in order to override that little voice in your head that's telling you exactly how badly things are fucked up because of your mental affliction.

Second, the NY prison system determines who may, and more importantly who may not, visit an inmate. If the warden says no, then it's no. Any "ceremonies" aren't going to make the list of permitted acts or behavior. Or do you think huge parties are allowed in prison?

Third, Merchan did everything in his power to limit the defense from being able to put on a defense. He didn't give Trump ANY of the deference due a defendant. He consistently and openly ruled against the defense and in favor of the state at every possible opportunity. Yes, some of the motions were a bit out there in terms of being reasonable, but the defense motions for recusal, venue change, mistrial, dismissal, irrelevant evidence, and so on were well taken and should have been granted. They weren't. They weren't because Merchan did what ALL corrupt judges do; he steered the trial in the direction his preconceived bias wanted it to go until it arrived at the predetermined outcome.

Further, Trump has been convicted. That conviction hasn't been upheld yet. Until it is, and all appeals have been exhausted, all you have is a talking point that's meaningless. This is why you raise the security clearance meme. And why you and all the usual suspects are so quick to toss out "he's a felon!!!" You're not stating anything other than your willingness to go along with the persecution and, to you, favorable political outcome in the hopes of scoring political points. Basically you're shouting to yourselves because no one else is listening to you. This is just another version of Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union speech, it's meaningless except as a political statement and designed to do only 1 thing - enrage the opposition.


BTW, did you know that according to the various news sources I read the Trump campaign has raised around $200 million since the verdict? And that 30% of those donors haven't EVER donated before to any party?

That's a hellova lot of first time political involvement against your brand of despotism and speaks to how much the people see what happened and are PISSED about this verdict you're crowing over. So enjoy your "victory while it lasts, you've managed to do what you intended and enraged a lot of people.