Lit's under 18 rule

[orneeuldman]

I am NOT complaining about this Rule. I accept that the persons who operate this website have every right to set the rules. What I do not understand is how anything in a FICTIONAL story can be "illegal" anywhere. I have searched through this site for previous discussions of the Under 18 Rule and on my most recent search came upon statement about "Fictional stories with murders here there and everywhere throughout". Murder is illegal pretty well everywhere "I think", yet I haven't heard of charges laid for Fictional stories about murder.

Now with regard to sexual relations involving "minors" (definition of which is extremely varied), I think that there could be no valid complaint unless the account got off into the areas of: rape, sexual torture, obvious child involvement, etc, etc. I think that if the sex is CONSENTING BETWEEN POST-PUBESCENT teenage persons, AND is in a work of FICTION, then I don't really understand the logic in banning the inclusion of it in a story.

Let me state once again, I am NOT arguing with the right of this website to set this rule, or any other rule. I simply don't understand the reason, and the motivation for my comments is because one of my old and unfinished stories is simply NOT workable with an "under 18" requirement. I am NOT trying to push so that I can post this story or any other one. I don't care if anyone replies to this; I just wanted to state my thoughts on this subject. Full Stop.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

I hear you buddy. I'm twisting myself in knots right now so my high school couple don't get started until senior year.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Interesting. you don't have a problem with a line being drawn, you just don't like that the line differs from your own. What are the reasons you exclude rape, sexual torture, obvious child involvement, etc., etc., and what does etc., etc. explicitly mean? Are those reasons more valid than this sites 18 rule? Probably not, they're just yours and you agree with them because, well, they're yours...

I'd flip the question and ask why is it important to you to have your under 18 characters having sex?

 

[Rustyoznail]

Fair enough. We all know how things work in real life.

However - this is an American site, and needs to follow the many and varied laws there set by the pearl clutchers. The course of least resistance is everyone is over 18.

From this side of the world, it is odd how movies on TV there can happily display someone gruesomly being sliced and diced, but only if there are no nipples showing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Murder is illegal pretty well everywhere "I think", yet I haven't heard of charges laid for Fictional stories about murder.

https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/mr-doubles-operator-jailed/
https://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-mccoy-117

Now you have.

 

[SimonDoom]

Literotica's own peculiar "Under 18" rule, as applied, is what you would call a "bright-line rule." A bright line rule exists to make decisions simple and to avoid embroiling the decisionmaker in difficult cases where tricky judgments have to be made and potential, difficult-to-gauge risks may be incurred. It's simpler for Literotica to administer than a more nuanced rule, which might allow stories about post-pubescent but under-18 characters.

In the USA, the legal risk of providing a platform for sex stories about under 18-year-olds is not great, but it's not zero, either. The legal landscape is a bit unclear. Beyond the issue of the law, there's the issue of whether credit card companies or other financing systems or potential business partners will want to deal with you. They may not if they perceive you as catering to pedophilia. Like you, I don't think a coming of age story about 16 year olds is pedophilia, but some people have different opinions on that.

So setting a clear, bright-line "no under 18 content" rule is a simple, clear, easy-to-administer way that Literotica can just dodge the problem entirely. It makes a lot of sense as a prudential matter. They don't have to worry about a zealous district attorney in Mississippi filing a criminal case to score political points with the locals. You are correct that it probably isn't illegal, but if you're the owners of Literotica you'd probably prefer not to be indicted even if you think ultimately you can beat the indictment or win your case on appeal.

 

[KeithD]

No, writing underage is not illegal and it's done in the mainstream. So, yes, that's a false argument for not being able to post underage on Literotica. As you noted, it's Literotica's right to set that limit and they have done so.

End of story.

 

[lustychimera]

It's like the dubcon rape thing. Lit requires at least an sliver of enjoyment for the victim.

That's still very much rape and equally as heinous. Morally it makes no sense.

But when you think what kind of stories and crowd would be on here if Lit allowed every kind of rape story, it makes sense.

Is the same with the underage rule. It saves them from needing to go through every submission with a fine toothed comb of they draw a line in the sand. It's not about legality. In the US, words can't be pornographic.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I hear you buddy. I'm twisting myself in knots right now so my high school couple don't get started until senior year.

I had to do the same in Lifestyle Ch. 01: A Geek Beginning, Two 18-year old virgins become the geek couple.

I had my HS couple hook up just before Junior Prom and enjoyed "the whole experience of going all the way". That was the one REJECTION notice I received. I had to re-write things to make it clear they were both 18-years old in January and Seniors before the Prom (they were both held back one year in elementary school.) I also removed any reference to probable sex after the Prom. Their sexual escapades were as 18-year-olds outside of any ref to school.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

It's mainstream, yes. Ursula Leguin wrote under age (child, if you will) pornography. So did Stephen King.

 

[intim8]

It's not illegal, but that doesn't stop the authorities from making life difficult when they choose to. They don't care about murder, but in the US at least, sex and age is a very hot-button political issue. My understanding is that Lit in its early days had a lot of that kind of trouble back when it was getting started.

There are sites out there, and not some secret, "dark web" thing, with categories for stories involving young kids. No, I'm not going to tell you which ones, and you might think twice about googling for them. And think ten times before posting there or even creating an account, because I am sure they are being watched very closely, with the watchers collecting a lot of data and waiting for an opportunity to use it.

 

[KeithD]

It's not illegal, but that doesn't stop the authorities from making life difficult when they choose to. They don't care about murder, but in the US at least, sex and age is a very hot-button political issue. My understanding is that Lit in its early days had a lot of that kind of trouble back when it was getting started.

In my nearly two decades at Literotica, I can't say I've seen even a hint of a campaign of any sort having been lodged from the authorities or the puritans or anyone else against Literotica.

I'm able to accept that the submission guidelines provided at Literotica simply reflect the preference of the website owners--doing so completely in their rights.

 

[TheLobster]

I think Lit is too small to attract any attention. If you take the average number of new daily stories as 150, go with the “age-old” internet rule that says 90% consume, 9% comment and 1% create, you get 7DA that’s around 100k. It’s peanuts compared to the traffic of actual porn sites.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

There are content rules here, as with many websites, but here enforcement has frequently been at Laurel's discretion, which creates a bit of angst with some who feel that they were treated unfairly.

With thousands of stories on this site containing underage characters, the "No under 18 rule" involves more than the age of the characters. It concerns the context in which the characters are portrayed. The same site-owner discretion exists with other "rules" related to rape, murder, and similar context dependent subjects.

What is legal or illegal is irrelevant. Learn to write "Laurelotica" and you will have few problems here.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

There are content rules here, as with many websites, but here enforcement has frequently been at Laurel's discretion, which creates a bit of angst with some who feel that they were treated unfairly.

With thousands of stories on this site containing underage characters, the "No under 18 rule" involves more than the age of the characters. It concerns the context in which the characters are portrayed. The same site-owner discretion exists with other "rules" related to rape, murder, and similar context dependent subjects.

What is legal or illegal is irrelevant. Learn to write "Laurelotica" and you will have few problems here.

This is disconcerting...

 

[BobbyBrandt]

This is disconcerting...

Without question, but it is the way it is and no one here of AH is going to influence it.

Speaking only for myself, I have taken the time to read stories that have passed muster with Laurel and stories that haven't (usually on other sites when the author gives up here and posts elsewhere). It isn't difficult to see what context she finds acceptable for certain content rules and what she doesn't. She has never rejected one of my stories, and the one time that someone reported a story of mine for what they felt was a rules violation, my polite and concise appeal to her got it quickly reversed.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Without question, but it is the way it is and no one here of AH is going to influence it.

Speaking only for myself, I have taken the time to read stories that have passed muster with Laurel and stories that haven't (usually on other sites when the author gives up here and posts elsewhere). It isn't difficult to see what context she finds acceptable for certain content rules and what she doesn't. She has never rejected one of my stories, and the one time that someone reported a story of mine for what they felt was a rules violation, my polite and concise appeal to her got it quickly reversed.

Actually, I was referring to the embedded php file in your link. It's disconcerting because it indicates there may be code executed if I click the link. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but...

 

[lovecraft68]

Interesting. you don't have a problem with a line being drawn, you just don't like that the line differs from your own. What are the reasons you exclude rape, sexual torture, obvious child involvement, etc., etc., and what does etc., etc. explicitly mean? Are those reasons more valid than this sites 18 rule? Probably not, they're just yours and you agree with them because, well, they're yours...

I'd flip the question and ask why is it important to you to have your under 18 characters having sex?

I've asked this many times in threads about Loving wives BTB stories, why is there so little outrage over those things...

So, flip to anyone who cares to answer, why are those rule breaking stories no problem, but oh, the self-righteous outrage over someone who hasn't posted an underage story and is just voicing an opinion on the rule?

I think I'd have more patience for the discussion if there weren't so many under aged stories on a site that claims they don't want them.

 

[lovecraft68]

Without question, but it is the way it is and no one here of AH is going to influence it.

Speaking only for myself, I have taken the time to read stories that have passed muster with Laurel and stories that haven't (usually on other sites when the author gives up here and posts elsewhere). It isn't difficult to see what context she finds acceptable for certain content rules and what she doesn't. She has never rejected one of my stories, and the one time that someone reported a story of mine for what they felt was a rules violation, my polite and concise appeal to her got it quickly reversed.

and when your story was reinstated, it showed everyone how serious the site is about rape and underage. Which is not at all.

 

[AchtungNight]

What really worries me about the under 18 rule is the political trend in some parts of America to up age limits. Example- before 2021 it was legal in Texas for people 18-21 to work at and visit adult entertainment businesses. In 2021 the age limit changed to 21. Texas isn't the only state that's done this either. If Lit ever raises their age limit, a lot of people may find their stories rejected or even deleted. They probably won't, but it's still a concern.

 

[orneeuldman]

Interesting. you don't have a problem with a line being drawn, you just don't like that the line differs from your own. What are the reasons you exclude rape, sexual torture, obvious child involvement, etc., etc., and what does etc., etc. explicitly mean? Are those reasons more valid than this sites 18 rule? Probably not, they're just yours and you agree with them because, well, they're yours...

I'd flip the question and ask why is it important to you to have your under 18 characters having sex?

I have set any rules; I was refering to my understanding of Literotica's rules about rape, torture, pedophilia, and the "etc.etc" means all the other forms of physical/sexual violence. So YOU seem to have misundertood my statement.

I recognize the right of the site administrators to Set Rules, and I also recognize the aspects of "under 18 stories" besides the legallity. And it is NOT important to me to have under 18 characters in my stories!! I simply referred to one story that does not work if everything written has to refer to "over 18 status"

I read over Laurel's quite lengthy post on this over 18 subject and she explicity mentioned that general references to a character who is under 18 would not likely be prohibited, BUT that these references can not include "explicit sexual activity". This story that I wrote a long time ago just can not be converted to meet the requirements.

To end this all, as far as my input, anyone and everyone can refer to the Sticky Category at the beginning of this forum, which I referred to in preceding paragraph.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This story that I wrote a long time ago just can not be converted to meet the requirements.

That's always the way with these age rule threads. You didn't get your story published and you want to moan about it. Just up age them to eighteen and a day, like everyone else did, and get on with it.

Still, it means the AI crisis is over, and the AH is back to normal.

 

[Voboy]

Just up age them to eighteen and a day, like everyone else did, and get on with it.

So much this.

The universal tendency to take to the internet and whine loudly is something I've never understood. If you understand Laurel's parameters (as the OP claims to), then simply fit your story to those parameters and publish quietly. There's no need to start a thread about how tortured you are.

Or? Don't fit your story to those parameters, and don't publish. Those are the choices. Why a writer would feel the need to broadcast their anguish is beyond me. Just write.

 

[MillieDynamite]

While underage sex, rape, incest, and other things are allowed in mainstream publications, it cannot be a story just about those things. If you write erotica, those are forbidden subjects on all sales sites, whether they are the main thrust of the story or not. I've been told that is more an issue with CC processing companies than Amazon, but I can't tell you that for a fact. I don't understand why, in erotica, it is a hard and fast rule (not just here), and more traditional mainstream works can have graphic depictions of what an erotic writer can portray.

In my nearly two decades at Literotica, I can't say I've seen even a hint of a campaign of any sort having been lodged from the authorities or the puritans or anyone else against Literotica.

I'm able to accept that the submission guidelines provided at Literotica simply reflect the preference of the website owners--doing so completely in their rights.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If all the authors who've posted here about the injustice of the 18+ rule were to club together and kick in a few bucks each, they could set up their own site for those kinds of stories.

I suspect they'd soon enough get a better idea of why a site might choose not to host them.