"Doing Well" on Literotica

[AwkwardlySet]

In one of the recent topics, I touched on the term that Simon used - "doing well"
While I believe that we all have our personal motivations and benchmarks for how well we are doing, and while I also believe that is the most important thing for each of us, I also wanted to try to set some more "objective" metrics of "doing well" besides the subjective ones we all undoubtedly have.
My intention here is to set several criteria that could be used as "objective metrics", but my ambition is to have all of you invested in this and I intend to edit my original post to adjust the criteria and expand on the options as you present your arguments.

1. Doing well commercially - I believe this one trumps everything else. If you are doing well commercially then you ARE doing well, regardless of all the other parameters. This now includes only the authors who use websites such as Patreon as their Literotica influx can be estimated, in my opinion.


2. Having a large following - This is also quite an obvious one. The number of readers who want to be notified as soon as we post a story must be relevant, although it does depend heavily on the categories and themes the author focuses on, as well as their prolificness (is this a word? ) Of course, authors like SilkStockingsLover, HeyAll, lovecraft68, etc. whose followers are measured in the tens of thousands are objectively doing well regardless of the themes they are writing, but I also wanted to see if we can set some thresholds in the sense of how many followers one needs for certain themes and categories to be considered of being objectively "followed well?" It might be a hard task but hey, I believe we could use one serious topic for a change.


3. Having high scores and being ranked high on the top lists. This is a tricky one. High scores and top lists are easier to achieve with chaptered stories, not to mention that one needs mere five votes to be listed in last month's top list, ten votes to be listed in 12 months' top list, and a hundred votes to be listed in the All-time top list. Also, high scores vary by category and theme. I have some ideas here but I am reluctant to write them down yet. The problem with this criterion is that is so prone to tampering in all but the most popular categories where stories get thousands of votes. I am curious to hear your opinions about this one.


4. ??? Maybe something like the number of comments, quality of feedback, number of favorites and such could be used as one criterion but I am not sure how to measure this one properly


I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions

 

[StillStunned]

I'll try a no. 4: When a new story boosts your scores across the board.

That's an objective measure, I believe: your story is liked enough by new readers that they check out your other work, and then enjoy that too.

My latest I/T story, for instance, has buoyed the scores all but a handful of stories, across multiple categories and styles. Even the unusual stuff like Life and Death of the She-Wolf and Love at First Sight.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I'll try a no. 4: When a new story boosts your scores across the board.

That's an objective measure, I believe: your story is liked enough by new readers that they check out your other work, and then enjoy that too.

My latest I/T story, for instance, has buoyed the scores all but a handful of stories, across multiple categories and styles. Even the unusual stuff like Life and Death of the She-Wolf and Love at First Sight.

I see your point, but that is a case of a story "doing well" rather than the author, no? There is an argument for using that as a criterion of "doing better than before" but I am not sure about being used for "doing well"

 

[THBGato]

I'm wondering why this all matters? Why do you feel the need objective metrics for this?

If an author is happy with the stories that they are writing, surely that's the only thing that is important? If you start measuring different authors against one another, the natural outcome will be to make some feel diminished by the comparison.

One of the wonderful things about writing - as opposed to, say, sport - is we can all be winners. I can vote 5 stars for 100s of stories (as indeed I have), leave loads of comments and follow dozens of writers (as I do). I don't have to chose one as the best.

It seems weird that you want to work out a way to do so.

Anyway, we all know it's Wanda!

 

[alohadave]

I'm wondering why this all matters? Why do you feel the need objective metrics for this?

This is what we do here. If navel gazing were an Olympic sport, we'd have all the medals.

 

[Reenigam]

1. Doing well commercially - I believe this one trumps everything else. If you are doing well commercially then you ARE doing well, regardless of all the other parameters.

Then your "belief" is a money-centered one. If you find yourself later, swimming around in dollar bills and yet somehow with this niggling doubt which won't go away as to the intrinsic value of your writing, then actually it didn't amount originally to a true, from-the-heart belief, simply a desperate, from-the-wallet hope...

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm doing okay on sales, not well. I'm satisfied with the sales I have but could always use more.

I'm approaching 170 followers, that's not great, but I'm happy with it. The long gap between publishing here probably doesn't help me gain followers. I can't write as much as I want for me because I also write for others, which I'm paid for. That is where I make the most money, therefore that has to be the priority for me. God help me if bloggers, podcasters, and others that use my service actually learn to write. But when one goes away, the website I'm on always finds another one to take their place.

I don't put much stock in scores here, the 35 stories I have up, currently, only 5 have a score below 4.0, 13 have a score between 4.0 and 4.49, the rest 17 of them, have a score from 4.5 to 4.18 so I'm happy with that.

I love the comments and hearts I get most of all but they are never enough of those.

 

[intim8]

I look at it more as a progression than as separate criteria.

My first story, just getting any positive acknowledgement of it at all was success. Views, votes, comments, favorites. It was the ice breaker. The fact that it got the H was a big bonus.

Then as I posted more it was average vote and the H tags that measured success. I haven't really had any serious failures in that regard, but not all have succeeded equally. Interestingly enough, the ranking of my stories by avg votes correlates somewhat well with my own estimation of quality, except for the fact that what I think is my best is only my fourth highest rated one. Three of the four at the bottom are definitely inferior in my own estimation, with the one third from the bottom (by 0.02, so it's a really virtual tie) being the only story of mine that I really think was a clunker.

The next threshold of success for me might be getting on some of those top lists, maybe winning a contest or something.

After that, I'm starting to watch follower count more closely and thinking about ways to boost that.

If I get there, I'll start trying to look at commercial success. Or, for startes, commercial anything, big or small. If I made fifty bucks on something I wrote, I'd be thrilled. It would feel like getting over a big hump, like proving I could do it.

Not that I'm waiting for one step to be acheived to think about the others, more a matter of how I am gauging my progress.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Then your "belief" is a money-centered one. If you find yourself later, swimming around in dollar bills and yet somehow with this niggling doubt which won't go away as to the intrinsic value of your writing, then actually it didn't amount originally to a true, from-the-heart belief, simply a desperate, from-the-wallet hope...

While I myself write purely for my own satisfaction and haven't even tried monetizing my writing, I see nothing wrong with authors who write purely for the commercial aspect of it. That is their reason for writing and in that sense, they can "do well" objectively assuming they reach a certain threshold that we are trying to set here.

 

[KimAwakened]

While I myself write purely for my own satisfaction and haven't even tried monetizing my writing, I see nothing wrong with authors who write purely for the commercial aspect of it. That is their reason for writing and in that sense, they can "do well" objectively assuming they reach a certain threshold that we are trying to set here.

And therefore they will target what makes the most bucks... which sometimes (not for every writer, admittedly) is in conflict with what even they themselves regard as good writing.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

And therefore they will target what makes the most bucks... which sometimes (not for every writer, admittedly) is in conflict with what even they themselves regard as good writing.

This topic isn't about "writing well", it's about "doing well." There is a lot of difference there.

 

[Reenigam]

And that difference sort of sums up the situation, as mentioned in Kim's post.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't know how good my writing is. I guess, since I'm busy most of the time, my works good enough for those that pay me. I don't write for others to please myself, I do that work for the money. But I have to do it well or they'll go else where. I'm not ashamed of writing for others. What I write for me is, for the most part, for me. Some of it ends up as pleasing others, some of it brings out anger in others. I'm good with them enjoying it or hating it, it's an emotional response and that's what I'm after. I don't consider erotic writing as important authorship. I do erotic stories as therapy or for pleasure. Sometimes its both. However, I try to write whatever I write well.

It is difficult to judge ones own work. If one views it as excellent, it probably isn't that. It might be good but few writers are excellent. If one thinks it is terrible, it probably isn't that bad.

And therefore they will target what makes the most bucks... which sometimes (not for every writer, admittedly) is in conflict with what even they themselves regard as good writing.

 

[StillStunned]

It is difficult to judge ones own work. If one views it as excellent, it probably isn't that. It might be good but few writers are excellent. If one thinks it is terrible, it probably isn't that bad.

After 25 years as a professional editor, I've come to the conclusion that my work is exactly as good as the client says it is. How happy they are with what I deliver is really the way to measure quality.

 

[Britva415]

wanted to try to set some more "objective" metrics of "doing well" besides the subjective ones we all undoubtedly have

I don't think it's possible.

At least - I don't think it's possible for all authors to buy in to any set of metrics anyone could come up with.

 

[Britva415]

If you are doing well commercially then you ARE doing well, regardless of all the other parameters

On Lit?

 

[Rob_Royale]

I'm having a good time. That's my metric.

 

[Britva415]

that is a case of a story "doing well" rather than the author, no?

I don't understand how you can say this. The scenario was really clear that the author's other stories got read and got highly rated as the result of a new story being published. It's more than the one story doing well.

Besides:

He didn't say this, but when I read @StillStunned 's post, I either read between the lines or inserted my own interpretation. Either way, it can be interpreted as a sign of "doing well" in the sense that the author's craft is demonstrably improving. Some authors aren't really reaching for any level of craft and this wouldn't be a factor they think about, but others love making "progress" in the craft.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

1. Doing well commercially - I believe this one trumps everything else. If you are doing well commercially then you ARE doing well, regardless of all the other parameters. Doesn't matter if it happens through the boosting of your sales on Amazon, Smashwords, or such, or if it happens through your following on Patreon or any other similar website. Since this isn't what I am here for, I believe I have no point of reference in the sense of how much one needs to be making through Patreon or through sales on Amazon coming from Literotica readers (estimated, of course) to be considered as "objectively doing well commercially for a Literotica author." I am hoping that some of you who do focus on the commercial aspect can give some numbers that won't be completely arbitrary so that we can set some threshold. (Assuming I am not asking for too much information )

2. Having a large following - This is also quite an obvious one. The number of readers who want to be notified as soon as we post a story must be relevant, although it does depend heavily on the categories and themes the author focuses on, as well as their prolificness (is this a word? ) Of course, authors like SilkStockingsLover, HeyAll, lovecraft68, etc. whose followers are measured in the tens of thousands are objectively doing well regardless of the themes they are writing, but I also wanted to see if we can set some thresholds in the sense of how many followers one needs for certain themes and categories to be considered of being objectively "followed well?" It might be a hard task but hey, I believe we could use one serious topic for a change.

3. Having high scores and being ranked high on the top lists. This is a tricky one. High scores and top lists are easier to achieve with chaptered stories, not to mention that one needs mere five votes to be listed in last month's top list, ten votes to be listed in 12 months' top list, and a hundred votes to be listed in the All-time top list. Also, high scores vary by category and theme. I have some ideas here but I am reluctant to write them down yet. The problem with this criterion is that is so prone to tampering in all but the most popular categories where stories get thousands of votes. I am curious to hear your opinions about this one.

Point 1 is irrelevant. Certainly some of us have stuff published for pay in various places but as the thread title clearly indicates on literotica, no one is getting paid here.

Doing well depends on one's perspective and one's reason for writing. Most of us if not all seem to fall somewhere on that spectrum of writing to tell stories that we believe in and/or wish to share, and writing for accolades.

If one skews more towards accolades then clearly point 3 defines doing well to a T. That's very easy to quantify.

If one is here to tell the stories within them, then point 2 applies but perhaps not perfectly. Having a larger following does not necessarily mean that one is doing well, however I might argue that finding and attracting the audience that appreciates one's style would constitute doing well. If one writes to a niche and that niche draws forth, one may not have a large audience but they may have a strong audience that one can connect with.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Point 1 is irrelevant. Certainly some of us have stuff published for pay in various places but as the thread title clearly indicates on literotica, no one is getting paid here.

You misunderstand. Nobody here is getting paid for writing on Literotica, but Literotica can and is being used for building up readership which can be directed towards one's Patreon account, for example, or towards one's Amazon or Smashwords page. That is what I am talking about in this particular sense.

I have a feeling that people are replying before taking the time to read and process the original post properly.

 

[Reenigam]

Possibly... or maybe just availing themselves of that well-known Lit. facility - the ability to add other thoughts.

 

[KeithD]

1. Doing well commercially - I believe this one trumps everything else. If you are doing well commercially then you ARE doing well, regardless of all the other parameters. Doesn't matter if it happens through the boosting of your sales on Amazon, Smashwords, or such, or if it happens through your following on Patreon or any other similar website. Since this isn't what I am here for, I believe I have no point of reference in the sense of how much one needs to be making through Patreon or through sales on Amazon coming from Literotica readers (estimated, of course) to be considered as "objectively doing well commercially for a Literotica author." I am hoping that some of you who do focus on the commercial aspect can give some numbers that won't be completely arbitrary so that we can set some threshold. (Assuming I am not asking for too much information )

I'll respond to this from my own perspective of being in the marketplace for over twenty-five years overall and the erotica marketplace for nearly eighteen years.

I see "doing well commercially" as making more than you are laying out (and many self-publishers don't pay attention to what they are laying out in the process and they aren't clearing what they claim they are). This is for works one would do happily whether or not they made a profit off it. "Doing quite well" is that plus having someone else doing the production work and laying out the expenses themselves up front.

"Doing well" for me in mainstream versus erotica commercial publishing has followed a bell curve. For the first dozen years of writing erotica for the marketplace, I made more from the erotica than from the mainstream work. That's because, until the e-book revolution, the erotica market was underserved. More recently, there's a glut in the erotica market and I make more from the mainstream--staying not much ahead of "if there's more profit and outlay" it's going well. From the getgo, I didn't publish unless someone else was going to bear the expense and production burden of getting it to market.

I didn't go into writing until I was cushy financially otherwise. That kept the writing to be what I wanted to do rather than what I had to do. Also, at no point did I want to be dependent on whatever I made from writing. It's always been "whatever it is is gravy and mostly buys sea cruises or more books."

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You misunderstand. Nobody here is getting paid for writing on Literotica, but Literotica can and is being used for building up readership which can be directed towards one's Patreon account, for example, or towards one's Amazon or Smashwords page. That is what I am talking about in this particular sense.

I have a feeling that people are replying before taking the time to read and process the original post properly.

No, I still believe that it's irrelevant. I honestly don't believe that anyone's patreon account or smashwords store is making hundreds of dollars a month from literotica sig and profile links. A few bucks here and there sure but smashwords store is just capable of far more distro and promo than a lit account.

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong, how their account pulls in x grand a month and that they know exactly how many hundreds of dollars of that comes from their lit links. I suppose that I could stand corrected but I doubt it.

 

[lovecraft68]

No, I still believe that it's irrelevant. I honestly don't believe that anyone's patreon account or smashwords store is making hundreds of dollars a month from literotica sig and profile links. A few bucks here and there sure but smashwords store is just capable of far more distro and promo than a lit account.

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong, how their account pulls in x grand a month and that they know exactly how many hundreds of dollars of that comes from their lit links. I suppose that I could stand corrected but I doubt it.

The thing is unless someone reaches out to you and says "Hey, I'm from literotica and I bought your book." We have no idea where sales come from. I have had a couple people do that over the years, but we're talking 11 years of selling, so it's very rare.

Like the line in Cat Scratch Fever "I don't know where they come from, but they sure do come." and that's all that matters.

Having said that, I'll tell a story about that shows the fact most people on a free site want it all for free.

I have an long taboo series here. Its 39 chapters, a five chapter side piece that needs to be read to understand the back half of the main series and a one shot. But originally there was another five part series which was a look into the future of the characters "The Final Fate of Mark and Megan" the series totaled 900K+ words.

Well back in 2012 for some reason Lit banned chapter three of the follow up. I refused to rewrite it, and wasn't going to leave it up incomplete, so I pulled it, but have the e-book version. Over the years I have had several people tell me I'm an asshole for asking them to pay for the book. I explained the scenario and get told I should send it to them for free.

My reply at that point is I provided you with close to 800k words for free not to mention my other 100 stories I have here for free, and you're going to complain about $2.99? Don't want to buy it, don't.

Now, in case someone here tries the "Well, lit has this rule of not leading people on and then making them pay for the rest of the story." Chapter 39 has an ending. Its a complete story. The other five chapters take place six months down the line, its more of a sequel so...try again.

But I have a feeling that is more typical of most readers than they're going to spend money.

 

[StillStunned]

Nobody here is getting paid for writing on Literotica,

Wait, am I the only one here with a clicks-for-cash membership?

(If only...)