The future is dense, walkable cities.

[TrailerHitch]

So you’re saying that the reason walking communities won’t work is because of the problems you have with contemporary communities.

Your arguments are myopic.

And you in a fantasy land where somehow people packed like sardines will all of a suddenly become decent people and have common courtesy.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Do you honestly believe firetrucks can’t be electric?

They already are in some communities. If you want to try to make a point you really should keep up with current events.

But do tell how an electric fire truck will travel any easier in your city of the future than an ICE one would?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

What do you think we do? We sure as hell don't run them over. Continuously siren and air horn usage until they move or we can go around them

Bicycles are smaller and more maneuverable than cars. If an ambulance is behind a cyclist honking its horn they’ll move. A driver stuck in traffic often can’t get out of the way.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

They already are in some communities. If you want to try to make a point you really should keep up with current events.

But do tell how an electric fire truck will travel any easier in your city of the future than an ICE one would?

They’ll use the bus and bike lanes and avoid the roads with private cars.

 

[AlexBailey]

And you in a fantasy land where somehow people packed like sardines will all of a suddenly become decent people and have common courtesy.

I’m just pointing out how you are saying the change can’t be made because a problem that exists now will also be a problem with a new model.

If the problem is still going to exist, why would that stand in the way of other improvements?

It’s akin to saying you don’t want to live longer because you’ll still have to earn a living. Meh, not a great analogy but I can’t think of a better one that you might grasp at the moment.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

And you in a fantasy land where somehow people packed like sardines will all of a suddenly become decent people and have common courtesy.

The illusion of invulnerability you get when you’re behind the wheel of a car makes people ruder. People on foot or on a bicycle are more polite to those around them.

 

[Chernosoth]

Do you honestly believe firetrucks can’t be electric?

Holy fucking shit, that would be all kinds of stupid. On a truck that is already very heavy empty, add some tons of water, people, and equipment, then throw on another load of EV battery weight, and see how that beast handles at emergency speeds in city traffic. Hell no. And it would still be as dead as any truck with an empty fuel tank if there's no fossil fuel at the power plant. We're not running heavy duty trucks on windmills. An electric firetruck would also be much more dangerous as an extra fire hazard, the EV cells that may ignite when they get too hot or damaged.

Pumps, ladders, and other firefighting equipment located where they're needed is a possible solution. Each neighborhood doing its own drills with its own equipment may become necessary.

 

[AlexBailey]

Holy fucking shit, that would be all kinds of stupid. On a truck that is already very heavy empty, add some tons of water, people, and equipment, then throw on another load of EV battery weight, and see how that beast handles at emergency speeds in city traffic. Hell no. And it would still be as dead as any truck with an empty fuel tank if there's no fossil fuel at the power plant. We're not running heavy duty trucks on windmills. An electric firetruck would also be much more dangerous as an extra fire hazard, the EV cells that may ignite when they get too hot or damaged.

Pumps, ladders, and other firefighting equipment located where they're needed is a possible solution. Each neighborhood doing its own drills with its own equipment may become necessary.

Okay, so you aren’t keeping up with EV tech and you aren’t knowledgeable about urban firefighting equipment.

Lithium Cobalt batteries - the ones used by Tesla, can combust. Lithium Ferrous Phosphate do not. Most large motive lithium batteries are now LFP.

Electric motors have much more torque than ICE engines, so even if the load is heavier the vehicle is more agile.

Most urban fire trucks connect to hydrants for their water supply. The ones that do carry water only carry a few hundred gallons at most - not a problem for higher torque vehicles.

If they are driving a high pressure 10kw pump a battery big enough for a long range car could run that pump for 10 hours.

Just as fuel tanks are kept full, batteries in EMS vehicles are kept charged.

But yes, your idea of having firefighting equipment stores locally is a good one.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Holy fucking shit, that would be all kinds of stupid. On a truck that is already very heavy empty, add some tons of water, people, and equipment, then throw on another load of EV battery weight, and see how that beast handles at emergency speeds in city traffic. Hell no. And it would still be as dead as any truck with an empty fuel tank if there's no fossil fuel at the power plant. We're not running heavy duty trucks on windmills. An electric firetruck would also be much more dangerous as an extra fire hazard, the EV cells that may ignite when they get too hot or damaged.

Pumps, ladders, and other firefighting equipment located where they're needed is a possible solution. Each neighborhood doing its own drills with its own equipment may become necessary.

Apocalyptic hypotheticals shouldn’t be used to dismiss simple things we can do to improve urban transit and emergency vehicle response time right now.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Bicycles are smaller and more maneuverable than cars. If an ambulance is behind a cyclist honking its horn they’ll move. A driver stuck in traffic often can’t get out of the way.

AND sometimes they won't. I've had it happen to me.

 

[TrailerHitch]

They’ll use the bus and bike lanes and avoid the roads with private cars.

Sure because the busses and bikes will all magically disappear when a firetruck or ambulance pulls up behind them.

In your scenario when the fire truck of ambulance arrives on scene where do they park that doesn't block your bike or bus lanes? You have eliminated all the parking spaces...

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

AND sometimes they won't. I've had it happen to me.

As I said, people in cars tend to be ruder than cyclists. Your past experience with drivers doesn’t extrapolate.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I’m just pointing out how you are saying the change can’t be made because a problem that exists now will also be a problem with a new model.

If the problem is still going to exist, why would that stand in the way of other improvements?

It’s akin to saying you don’t want to live longer because you’ll still have to earn a living. Meh, not a great analogy but I can’t think of a better one that you might grasp at the moment.

You analogy sucks because I have a pension and social security. Nice try but no points will be awarded.

If you are making a new model why leave the same old problem in place? You are just like these community designers. It's all about ambiance until gramma burns to death because the fire apparatus couldn't get there. Or little Johnny dies because the ambulance can't get there. If you know it's a problem don't bury your head in the sand, FIX IT.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Sure because the busses and bikes will all magically disappear when a firetruck or ambulance pulls up behind them.

In your scenario when the fire truck of ambulance arrives on scene where do they park that doesn't block your bike or bus lanes? You have eliminated all the parking spaces...

They park in the street like they do right now in major emergencies. Traffic is rerouted to side streets. That’s why having a flexible road grid is an important part of good urban design.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You analogy sucks because I have a pension and social security. Nice try but no points will be awarded.

If you are making a new model why leave the same old problem in place? You are just like these community designers. It's all about ambiance until gramma burns to death because the fire apparatus couldn't get there. Or little Johnny dies because the ambulance can't get there. If you know it's a problem don't bury your head in the sand, FIX IT.

Getting private cars off the streets of cities is fixing it.

 

[TrailerHitch]

The illusion of invulnerability you get when you’re behind the wheel of a car makes people ruder. People on foot or on a bicycle are more polite to those around them.

You've never been to Madison Wisconsin have you? It's a college town with a similar walkable, bikeable campus area. Neither pedestrians or bikers give a single damn about traffic. They will walk or bike right out in front of you whether they have the right of way or not. Inconsiderate assholes is what they are.

Honestly people here are the politest drivers I have ever seen, whether in town or out in the rural. Must be a cultural thing.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You've never been to Madison Wisconsin have you? It's a college town with a similar walkable, bikeable campus area. Neither pedestrians or bikers give a single damn about traffic. They will walk or bike right out in front of you whether they have the right of way or not. Inconsiderate assholes is what they are.

Honestly people here are the politest drivers I have ever seen, whether in town or out in the rural. Must be a cultural thing.

Bicycles and pedestrians always have right-of-way over motorized vehicles.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Bicycles and pedestrians always have right -of-way over motorized vehicles.

NO THEY DON'T. In a traffic signal controlled intersection they absolutely do not. A pedestrian walks when the signal says walk, a bicycle in that same situation can't simply ignore a red light and ride out into traffic.

 

[AlexBailey]

You analogy sucks because I have a pension and social security. Nice try but no points will be awarded.

If you are making a new model why leave the same old problem in place? You are just like these community designers. It's all about ambiance until gramma burns to death because the fire apparatus couldn't get there. Or little Johnny dies because the ambulance can't get there. If you know it's a problem don't bury your head in the sand, FIX IT.

LMFAO!

How do you propose to fix it? You aren’t proposing to fix anything. You’re complaining about the status quo and demanding to stay the course.

 

[TrailerHitch]

LMFAO!

How do you propose to fix it? You aren’t proposing to fix anything. You’re complaining about the status quo and demanding to stay the course.

Actually no I'm not. I'm saying planning cutesy walkable streets and packed in housing is all well and good until you realize that fire apparatus can't get there and 5 or 6 of those packed together houses burn down. There are all kinds of solutions, I could list several, but this is your dream not mine. All I want is for you all to open your eyes to the nightmare you are creating for ALL city services. not only emergency services. Honestly if any planning commission allows this without those provisions I believe they are responsible for the difficulties that occur.

 

[AlexBailey]

You analogy sucks because I have a pension and social security. Nice try but no points will be awarded.

I’m not surprised you don’t understand analogies. You try to apply the entire concept and when a piece doesn’t fit your situation you throw out the whole idea.

It isn’t ironic that this is analogous to your understanding of the concept of this thread. You’re actually funny..

 

[TrailerHitch]

I’m not surprised you don’t understand analogies. You try to apply the entire concept and when a piece doesn’t fit your situation you throw out the whole idea.

It isn’t ironic that this is analogous to your understanding of the concept of this thread. You’re actually funny..

And you are a closed minded drone. I stated an obvious problem. You answer is to attack me and use idiotic analogies that don't even work, hell you even said so.

Simple solution, don't read my posts or block me because I will continue to say what ever I please.

Again, live packed like sardines, desiring to take away people's right to free travel in their personally owned cars, if that is the life you choose. I won't try to stop you. Hell I encourage you to pursue this plan and the sooner the better. Rock on!

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

And you are a closed minded drone. I stated an obvious problem. You answer is to attack me and use idiotic analogies that don't even work, hell you even said so.

Simple solution, don't read my posts or block me because I will continue to say what ever I please.

Again, live packed like sardines, desiring to take away people's right to free travel in their personally owned cars, if that is the life you choose. I won't try to stop you. Hell I encourage you to pursue this plan and the sooner the better. Rock on!

No one is trying to take away people's cars. We just want to provide alternatives to driving that are safer and faster.

 

[AlexBailey]

And you are a closed minded drone. I stated an obvious problem. You answer is to attack me and use idiotic analogies that don't even work, hell you even said so.

Simple solution, don't read my posts or block me because I will continue to say what ever I please.

Again, live packed like sardines, desiring to take away people's right to free travel in their personally owned cars, if that is the life you choose. I won't try to stop you. Hell I encourage you to pursue this plan and the sooner the better. Rock on!

Do you even understand what the concept of “closed minded” means?

A little hint: it isn’t usually used to describe people who are interested in trying new things.

 

[Chernosoth]

A water tank on the roof would be convenient for firefighting, depending on the strength of the roof. Firefighters on neighboring roofs could use multiple tanks to spray down on a fire instead of trying to pump or carry water up. Free solar water heating can be done by painting the tank black. If that negates the only use of natgas, then that negates the risk of a natgas explosion.