closed Thread

[BrightShinyGirl]

At what cost? Genocide?

Despicable.

Most Zionists don’t support genocide. The few who do are wrong to do so.

Hamas was founded with the purpose of eradicating the state of Israel and killing all the Jews. They’ve failed in their attempts so far only because they’re too weak to do more than commit atrocities.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Most Zionists don’t support genocide. The few who do are wrong to do so.

Hamas was founded with the purpose of eradicating the state of Israel and killing all the Jews. They’ve failed in their attempts so far only because they’re too weak to do more than commit atrocities.

I don’t hear any condemnation for the IDF’s actions then?

You and others like you have spent the last nearly six months asking everyone and their mother to condemn Hamas for the 1200 killed (some, it turns out, at the hands of the IDF and the Hannibal directive now), but 31,000 Palestinians have died directly as a result of the IDF’s bombing campaign and destruction of civilian infrastructure and continue to die in brutal bombing and starvation tactics - will you condemn the IDF and Israel’s government for their actions?

And if not, why not?

And “The few who do” - are you joking? Every single Israeli politician bar two or three at the minute insisting on cutting water, food, fuel and medical supplies to Gaza.

Protestors in their hundreds blocking aid trucks. Settlers in their thousands committing hundreds of atrocities a week in the occupied West Bank.

From where the rest of the world are sitting, most Israelis appear to be Zionists and racists. This is broadcast around the world on hundreds of news channels, live.

Literally aiding and abetting the destruction of 2.3 million people.

How about you condemn Israel and the IDF’s actions?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I don’t hear any condemnation for the IDF’s actions then?

You and others like you have spent the last nearly six months asking everyone and their mother to condemn Hamas for the 1200 killed (some, it turns out, at the hands of the IDF and the Hannibal directive now), but 31,000 Palestinians have died directly as a result of the IDF’s bombing campaign and destruction of civilian infrastructure and continue to die in brutal bombing and starvation tactics - will you condemn the IDF and Israel’s government for their actions?

And if not, why not?

And “The few who do” - are you joking? Every single Israeli politician bar two or three at the minute insisting on cutting water, food, fuel and medical supplies to Gaza.

Protestors in their hundreds blocking aid trucks. Settlers in their thousands committing hundreds of atrocities a week in the occupied West Bank.

From where the rest of the world are sitting, most Israelis appear to be Zionists and racists. This is broadcast around the world on hundreds of news channels, live.

Literally aiding and abetting the destruction of 2.3 million people.

How about you condemn Israel and the IDF’s actions?

The IDF’s response to October 7th was too extreme. I will condemn that and the actions of the Netanyahu government. I will not condemn Israel for existing.

Most Israelis are Zionists, but a Zionist is not the same as a racist. A Zionist is merely someone who thinks the Jews should have a homeland.

Do you think Jews should have a homeland?

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

The IDF’s response to October 7th was too extreme. I will condemn that and the actions of the Netanyahu government.

Fantastic. Then you should be on the protest marches demanding an end to the ongoing slaughter, like the rest of us.

I will not condemn Israel for existing.

No one here has and very few do so in the real world, accepting that it exists now.

This is a nonsense point to bring up.

Most Israelis are Zionists, but a Zionist is not the same as a racist. A Zionist is merely someone who thinks the Jews should have a homeland.

Being a Zionist IS being racist.

If you believe Israel should exist at the expense of another people, whatever the tactics, you’re a racist.

You don’t care for the people in the way, you want to achieve something that ultimately requires removing someone out of the world.

Zionism is factually racist. It is built on white supremacism and - astonishing this! - has imported much of that thinking from the United States and other European nations - to Israel, with horrendous consequences including what is unquestionably now a racist, apartheid state.

Are you against apartheid? If not, why not?

Do you think Jews should have a homeland?

Jews already had a homeland much like the rest of the planet.

It was called Palestine.

Most Jews recognise this. Jews were already living within the state of Palestine, which was Muslim, Christian and Jewish.

It did not require the destruction of an existing entity through colonialism for Jews to live in their “holy land”. That was already available to them.

Uprooting an existing population that was already Semitic to begin were and were arguably derived from the original Jewish nation was wrong, end of.

Colonial destruction is always wrong, whether it’s Israel to Palestinian, Britain to [insert 2/3rd of the world’s countries here], France to Algeria, Germany to Namibia, etc.

Do you think colonialism is wrong? If so, you’re anti-Zionist.

Dressing up racist ideology and colonial tactics in religion is, and always will be, despicable.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Fantastic. Then you should be on the protest marches demanding an end to the ongoing slaughter, like the rest of us.



No one here has and very few do so in the real world, accepting that it exists now.

This is a nonsense point to bring up.



Being a Zionist IS being racist.

If you believe Israel should exist at the expense of another people, whatever the tactics, you’re a racist.

You don’t care for the people in the way, you want to achieve something that ultimately requires removing someone out of the world.

Zionism is factually racist. It is built on white supremacism and - astonishing this! - has imported much of that thinking from the United States and other European nations - to Israel, with horrendous consequences including what is unquestionably now a racist, apartheid state.

Are you against apartheid? If not, why not?


Jews already had a homeland much like the rest of the planet.

It was called Palestine.

Most Jews recognise this. Jews were already living within the state of Palestine, which was Muslim, Christian and Jewish.

It did not require the destruction of an existing entity through colonialism for Jews to live in their “holy land”. That was already available to them.

Uprooting an existing population that was already Semitic to begin were and were arguably derived from the original Jewish nation was wrong, end of.

Colonial destruction is always wrong, whether it’s Israel to Palestinian, Britain to [insert 2/3rd of the world’s countries here], France to Algeria, Germany to Namibia, etc.

Do you think colonialism is wrong? If so, you’re anti-Zionist.

Dressing up racist ideology and colonial tactics in religion is, and always will be, despicable.

“Palestine” was the name assigned to Judea by the British colonial authorities to erase the fact that the Jews were indigenous. You say colonialism is wrong, but you talk like a colonizer.

Many Palestinians are the descendants of Arabs relocated to the region by the Ottoman Empire to dilute the troublesome indigenous population. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to live in peace and safety, but they don’t have a better claim to the land than the Jews do.

Furthermore, Judaism is an ethnicity not a race. Because of the diaspora, Jews come in all colors. Some look European, some look African, some look middle-eastern.

 

[KeithD]

Jews were already living within the state of Palestine, which was Muslim, Christian and Jewish.

It did not require the destruction of an existing entity through colonialism for Jews to live in their “holy land”. That was already available to them.

Uprooting an existing population that was already Semitic to begin were and were arguably derived from the original Jewish nation was wrong, end of.

I currently am reading the private memoir by a local author who is a Palestinian living in the States since her teens. (I was given this book to read more than a year before the 7 October events, so the book isn't any sort of reaction to that.) She's Greek Orthodox and points out that her family has been Greek Orthodox, living in Jerusalem, all the way back to the 4th Century, when Constantine's mother, Helena, brought that religion to Palestine (converting people already there; not bringing in new people). There was a large Greek Orthodox community in Jerusalem for over fifteen centuries. The two generations ahead of hers included doctors, a dentist, a pharmacist, and senior civil servants in government. Now, under Zionist rule, almost all of them have been forcefully dispersed around the world in a dispersion she calls the Nakba. These were people who were in Palestine many centuries before the Zionists decided in 1948 that they would establish an exclusionary country there. These are people who both were in necessary positions in Palestine for many centuries before 1948 while also having large, robust ethnic communities there. These are people who were Christians for many centuries before 1948. These are people who have been forced elsewhere in the world by an exclusionary, invading, European Zionist movement.

Israel's current approach to Gaza--to the greater understanding of Gaza than just the host--not fully willing--of Hamas--continues to be one of exclusion and dispersion somewhere else other than Palestine, their original home. They have taken it to the point of annihilation.

One can agree that the 7 October Hamas attack was horrific and inhuman and that wiping out Hamas is a reasonable response while also believing that the Israeli response to Gaza as a whole has gone way too far and too broad.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

“Palestine” was the name assigned to Judea by the British colonial authorities to erase the fact that the Jews were indigenous. You say colonialism is wrong, but you talk like a colonizer.

This is bogus.

You’re referring to Mandatory Palestine. Palestine itself existed long before that.

Get educated. It’s existed since the 12th century as an entity and area.

Many Palestinians are the descendants of Arabs relocated to the region by the Ottoman Empire to dilute the troublesome indigenous population. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to live in peace and safety, but they don’t have a better claim to the land than the Jews do.

Listen to yourself. Not all of the Palestinians are straight cut Arabs, either. Most of them ARE Semitic.

They DO have a better claim to the land - they were there, and have been, for thousands of years. They never left.

The “my book says this” mantra of the Zionist is a nonsense. I presume you would be against giving much of America back to the Native Americans of the world, by the same token?

Furthermore, Judaism is an ethnicity not a race. Because of the diaspora, Jews come in all colors. Some look European, some look African, some look middle-eastern.

Judaism is not an ethnicity, it is a religion.

People who are Jewish can come from many different ethnicities.

Stop putting out such obvious, basic misinformation.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

I currently am reading the private memoir by a local author who is a Palestinian living in the States since her teens. She's Greek Orthodox and points out that her family has been Greek Orthodox, living in Jerusalem, all the way back to the 4th Century, when Constantine's mother, Helena, brought that religion to Palestine (converting people already there; not bringing in new people). There was a large Greek Orthodox community in Jerusalem for over fifteen centuries. The two generations ahead of hers included doctors, a dentist, a pharmacist, and senior civil servants in government. Now, under Zionist rule, almost all of them have been forcefully dispersed around the world in a dispersion she calls the Nakba. These were people who were in Palestine many centuries before the Zionists decided in 1948 that they would establish an exclusionary country there. These are people who both were in necessary positions in Palestine for many centuries before 1948 while also having large, robust ethnic communities there. These are people who were Christians for many centuries before 1948. These are people who have been forced elsewhere in the world by an exclusionary, invading, European Zionist movement.

Israel's current approach to Gaza--to the greater understanding of Gaza than just the host--not fully willing--of Hamas--continues to be one of exclusion and dispersion somewhere else other than Palestine, their original home. They have taken it to the point of annihilation.

One can agree that the 7 October Hamas attack was horrific and inhuman and that wiping out Hamas is a reasonable response while also believing that the Israeli response to Gaza as a whole has gone way too far and too broad.

Keith, call it what it is. Genocide. It’s genocide.

 

[KeithD]

Keith, call it what it is. Genocide. It’s genocide.

Yes it is, especially because Israel isn't even giving the people of Gaza avenues for leaving Gaza while Israel engineers their deaths.

 

[KeithD]

Most Zionists don’t support genocide. The few who do are wrong to do so.

Having spent some time in Israel (albeit some years ago), I agree with you--or more I want to agree with you, I think. They did elect the current government, though, with Netanyahu under indictment (much like the support Trump still gets in the States), and his policy intents have always been clear.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Having spent some time in Israel (albeit some years ago), I agree with you--or more I want to agree with you, I think. They did elect the current government, though, with Netanyahu under indictment (much like the support Trump still gets in the States), and his policy intents have always been clear.

Yes, the sooner Netanyahu is voted out the better for both Jews and Palestinians.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

This is bogus.

You’re referring to Mandatory Palestine. Palestine itself existed long before that.

Get educated. It’s existed since the 12th century as an entity and area.



Listen to yourself. Not all of the Palestinians are straight cut Arabs, either. Most of them ARE Semitic.

They DO have a better claim to the land - they were there, and have been, for thousands of years. They never left.

The “my book says this” mantra of the Zionist is a nonsense. I presume you would be against giving much of America back to the Native Americans of the world, by the same token?



Judaism is not an ethnicity, it is a religion.

People who are Jewish can come from many different ethnicities.

Stop putting out such obvious, basic misinformation.

Judaism is an ethnicity, a culture, and a religion. There are very few converts to Judaism. Most Jews are born of Jewish parents.

Although “religion” is itself a problematic colonial term. It was coined by Europeans to try to shoehorn a variety of different indigenous practices into the conceptual framework of Protestant Christianity.

Except for Islam, lumping these practices under the label “religion” obscures more than it illuminates.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Judaism is an ethnicity, a culture, and a religion.

This is still bogus.

You could claim culture and religion but definitely not ethnicity, particularly when said ethnicity shares religions and cultures with others.

Utter nonsense you are spouting. Genetics don’t lie and Jewish inhabitants of hundreds of countries are genetically not the same.

Hence claiming it is an ethnicity is an absolute nonsense.

Judaism is a religion. Not an ethnicity.

There are very few converts to Judaism. Most Jews are born of Jewish parents.

Although “religion” is itself a problematic colonial term. It was coined by Europeans to try to shoehorn a variety of different indigenous practices into the conceptual framework of Protestant Christianity.

I’ve read some crap in my time on here but this is incredible. Religion as a term has existed for thousands of years and is well ahead as a definition of Protestant Christianity.

Where are you getting this “information” from?

Except for Islam, lumping these practices under the label “religion” obscures more than it illuminates.

I doubt you know very much about Islam.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Yes, the sooner Netanyahu is voted out the better for both Jews and Palestinians.

On that however, we all agree, but the problem is who replaces him and if the far right fascists continue their onslaught.

 

[Pad_Foot]

•
Um, I purposely refer to Hamas as “animals” for reason I have already explained.

If Palestinians and their supporters had IMMEDIATELY ( and continuously) condemned the Hamas animal’s October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation, and mourned the loss of innocent Israeli life and the barbaric acts inflicted upon them instead of IMMEDIATELY organizing rallies and celebrations lionizing the Hamas animals and condoning / glorifying their barbaric acts. I wouldn’t be posting for effect. (No appeal to emotion, but rather, an appeal to introspection).

Also:

I never suggested that ALL the dead minors in Gaza are of “fighting age”, but rather, that there is a “significant number” of "MINORS" of “fighting age” in the ranks of the Hamas animals, and that the “significant number” of casualties among "MINORS" in Gaza is easily explained by the “significant number” of "MINORS" of “fighting age” in the ranks of the Hamas animals that were killed in IDF strikes against the terror organization.

Again:

ALL the deaths and destruction in Gaza are on the heads of the Hamas animals and their Palestinian "civilian" enablers / cohorts - including and especially the heads of the parents of the "MINORS" of “fighting age” who give their encouragement and blessing to their "MINOR" children to participate in a barbaric Jihad.



JFC

SAD!!!

YUP, this was the GERMAN's point of view.
When they massacred Greek towns they murdered all the boys down to age 12.
All those kids the Israelis are killing I'm sure have guns in their hands and aren't being killed by bombs or artillery.
And you of course know all of their killings are just fine as you sit in your arm chair.

NO ONE is saying that Hammas deserves the war. All Palestinians are not in Hammas. All Americans are not Trumplikans.

SO, what about those younger than 12?
When they take down a whole apartment building, who is getting killed??
How many buildings have they destroyed??

Regardless.

We (THE WORLD) need to move in AID now. Let's see how fast we can move food and aid into that coast using the Army Corps of Engineers. Move BOTH(?) of our hospital ships there now. At this point they need the kind of aid we moved into Germany, Japan, and other countries after WWII.

If anyone attacks us?? Either side. Annihilate them!! Trucks and planes aren't working to get aid into the region. Move in WHOLE SHIPS. The Israelis can't be the ones dispersing the food, obviously. This is the UN's work. Get it started NOW! The army should be able to get piers set up damn quick! If need be, the UN can take over all of Gaza. Then, terrorists will attack. Reminder. The Israelis were terrorists when they helped the Palestinian terrorists convince the English to give up that region.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

This is still bogus.

You could claim culture and religion but definitely not ethnicity, particularly when said ethnicity shares religions and cultures with others.

Utter nonsense you are spouting. Genetics don’t lie and Jewish inhabitants of hundreds of countries are genetically not the same.

Hence claiming it is an ethnicity is an absolute nonsense.

Judaism is a religion. Not an ethnicity.



I’ve read some crap in my time on here but this is incredible. Religion as a term has existed for thousands of years and is well ahead as a definition of Protestant Christianity.

Where are you getting this “information” from?


I doubt you know very much about Islam.

Brent Nongbri’s Before Religion: A History of a Modern Concept.

The Latin term “religio” meant something very different than what we mean when we refer to religion today.

 

[LLCox]

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Brent Nongbri’s Before Religion: A History of a Modern Concept.

The Latin term “religio” meant something very different than what we mean when we refer to religion today.

As an academic who has read that book, I can guarantee you haven’t read that book, and if you had, you wouldn’t be quoting it back to me as evidence of your nonsensical claims.

Nongbri’s book is controversial and many authors have argued against his interpretations. In fact Barton, Boyarin and Ammerman specifically decry his claims.

However what you claim he said is not what he actually said. He put forward several hypotheses before making conclusions that did not line up with his original suppositions, namely that religion is codified, it is created, and what we refer to as religion today does largely marry up with the understanding of religions of yesteryear.

The only logical and accurate thing you’ve said in this thread is that Netanyahu needs removing.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

She’s an idiot.

The reason there are protests in the United States is because the United States are providing the weapons.

Also, no, Israel doesn’t have a right to defence: it’s the occupying power. That has been recognised and underlined repeatedly at the ICJ and similar.

You’re basically repeating debunked nonsense.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

As an academic who has read that book, I can guarantee you haven’t read that book, and if you had, you wouldn’t be quoting it back to me as evidence of your nonsensical claims.

Nongbri’s book is controversial and many authors have argued against his interpretations. In fact Barton, Boyarin and Ammerman specifically decry his claims.

However what you claim he said is not what he actually said. He put forward several hypotheses before making conclusions that did not line up with his original suppositions, namely that religion is codified, it is created, and what we refer to as religion today does largely marry up with the understanding of religions of yesteryear.

The only logical and accurate thing you’ve said in this thread is that Netanyahu needs removing.

When you say Judaism is a religion, what characteristics of a religion does it possess?

 

[LLCox]

She’s an idiot.

The reason there are protests in the United States is because the United States are providing the weapons.

Also, no, Israel doesn’t have a right to defence: it’s the occupying power. That has been recognised and underlined repeatedly at the ICJ and similar.

You’re basically repeating debunked nonsense.

Except she is right.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Except she is right.

Based on zero evidence or understanding of the situation. How stupid are you?

 

[LLCox]

Based on zero evidence or understanding of the situation. How stupid are you?

You need to get your shit together, son.

 

[Pad_Foot]

Except she is right.

Right!
We should not have let the Saudis kill Yemenis. It serves us right “they” are attacking us now. And there was an out cry about the impeding famine there. Who knows if it happened. The media didn’t cover it. Liberal? Or just no money in such reports and dangerous for reporters ??

However civilian populations are not participants in WAR. Our fire bombing of Dresdan the nuclear bombs, and My Lai.., all war crimes, but we won, so we decide the rules.

Thou Shalt Not Kill… all three middle Eastern religions have that Commandment from GOD!! The same GOD!

Ahhh.. but war is great business for US weapon producers!! Hopefully our planes are better than Boeing’s latest efforts

 

[LLCox]

Right!
We should not have let the Saudis kill Yemenis. It serves us right “they” are attacking us now. And there was an out cry about the impeding famine there. Who knows if it happened. The media didn’t cover it. Liberal? Or just no money in such reports and dangerous for reporters ??

However civilian populations are not participants in WAR. Our fire bombing of Dresdan the nuclear bombs, and My Lai.., all war crimes, but we won, so we decide the rules.

Thou Shalt Not Kill… all three middle Eastern religions have that Commandment from GOD!! The same GOD!

Ahhh.. but war is great business for US weapon producers!! Hopefully our planes are better than Boeing’s latest efforts

Spin it ll you want the woman is correct.