The future is dense, walkable cities.

[BrightShinyGirl]

That would be including the total population in the plans, yes. That wasn't where this thread was centering. It also slides away from your "why should I pay for something I'm not now using?" post. I guess that's a separate issue--but I think your post on that was wrongheaded.

If I phrased it as “let’s redirect the some of subsidies we currently give to drivers to people who want more transit choices” would that be more palatable?

Cars are so ubiquitous in American society that people don’t notice how much we subsidize them.

Car-centric cities are a policy choice, and part of changing that policy is pointing out that we’re spending a lot of money to make our cities less livable.

 

[MajorRewrite]

I don't think you're getting the difficulty of going out under the elements in any form of disability assist other than a car (and not just cars to drive--also vehicles one can convenient get to and that will shelter them during transportation).

And again, the older you get, the more difficult it is to walk at all. In talking "walkable cities" without being more realistic is, in fact, making a growing percentage of the population just disappear in your planning.

Nonsense. It’s easier for a person in a wheelchair or mobility scooter to get around in a compact, walkable community than in the drive-everywhere suburbs.

 

[KeithD]

Nonsense. It’s easier for a person in a wheelchair or mobility scooter to get around in a compact, walkable community than in the drive-everywhere suburbs.

Again, I bet you haven't actually done it on a daily basis.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Again, I bet you haven't actually done it on a daily basis.

When my mother got too old to drive, she moved into a condo downtown. Mom never had great mobility (overweight, bad hip) but she loved being able to slowly make her way around downtown with a cane and later with a walker.

Being in the compact walkable downtown let her continue to be independent and self-sufficient because of the easy access to stores, restaurants, movies and events. She wished she’d moved downtown much earlier in life.

Edit: I want to add that Mom’s social life also improved after moving downtown. She met lots of people just by being out and about daily. When I was with her, I’d often be surprised by how many people knew Mom by name and would stop to chat with her. It was a real quality of life improvement.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Of course, it is ableist to insist on an environment that privileges only those who are able to drive. Only 60 percent of the American population can drive. Our automobile environments disenfranchise and endanger those who are physically unable or too young to drive, or too poor to own a car. The total number of nondrivers is expected to increase dramatically as Baby Boomers age.

Aging population needs walkable, bikeable cities

An interesting article on the need to better serve seniors when planning communities.

 

[Rightguide]

Aging population needs walkable, bikeable cities

An interesting article on the need to better serve seniors when planning communities.

A small point:

American commute: dominated by cars
Americans still largely rely on their car to get to work and back. According to Statista’s Global Consumer Survey, 76 percent of American commuters use their own car to move between home and work, making it by far the most popular mode of transportation. Meanwhile, only 11 percent of the 5,649 respondents use public transportation while 10 percent ride their bike. As our chart shows, alternatives to the car have become more popular since 2019, but none comes close to challenging the car's status as the king of the American commute.

There are several factors contributing to the low adoption of bicycles as a means of everyday transportation: for one, Americans are used to commuting longer distances than people in most European nations, automatically ruling out the bike for many. And secondly, many major cities in the U.S. aren’t exactly bike-friendly. According to a recent study, just three American cities made it into the 50 most bicycle-friendly cities in the world, when taking into account factors such as bicycle infrastructure, safety and usage as well as things as mundane as the weather.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/05/commute-america-sustainability-cars/

 

[MajorRewrite]

A small point:

American commute: dominated by cars
Americans still largely rely on their car to get to work and back. According to Statista’s Global Consumer Survey, 76 percent of American commuters use their own car to move between home and work, making it by far the most popular mode of transportation. Meanwhile, only 11 percent of the 5,649 respondents use public transportation while 10 percent ride their bike. As our chart shows, alternatives to the car have become more popular since 2019, but none comes close to challenging the car's status as the king of the American commute.

There are several factors contributing to the low adoption of bicycles as a means of everyday transportation: for one, Americans are used to commuting longer distances than people in most European nations, automatically ruling out the bike for many. And secondly, many major cities in the U.S. aren’t exactly bike-friendly. According to a recent study, just three American cities made it into the 50 most bicycle-friendly cities in the world, when taking into account factors such as bicycle infrastructure, safety and usage as well as things as mundane as the weather.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/05/commute-america-sustainability-cars/

So? Nobody is making anyone give up their car.

It’s just nice when there are options to choose from. For example, where I live there is a traditional walkable downtown, and a new compact walkable town center out in the suburbs. There are also many many many unwalkable suburbs neighborhoods. People are free to make their own choices about which neighborhood they want to live in.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

A small point:

American commute: dominated by cars
Americans still largely rely on their car to get to work and back. According to Statista’s Global Consumer Survey, 76 percent of American commuters use their own car to move between home and work, making it by far the most popular mode of transportation. Meanwhile, only 11 percent of the 5,649 respondents use public transportation while 10 percent ride their bike. As our chart shows, alternatives to the car have become more popular since 2019, but none comes close to challenging the car's status as the king of the American commute.

There are several factors contributing to the low adoption of bicycles as a means of everyday transportation: for one, Americans are used to commuting longer distances than people in most European nations, automatically ruling out the bike for many. And secondly, many major cities in the U.S. aren’t exactly bike-friendly. According to a recent study, just three American cities made it into the 50 most bicycle-friendly cities in the world, when taking into account factors such as bicycle infrastructure, safety and usage as well as things as mundane as the weather.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/05/commute-america-sustainability-cars/

Yes, when the government heavily subsidizes something, people will consume more of it.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Yes, when the government heavily subsidizes something, people will consume more of it.

Governments don't subsidize, taxpayers do, and if the vast majority of people use and approve of their vehicles, that's one example of government being somewhat useful.

 

[wizzard426]

Governments don't subsidize, taxpayers do, and if the vast majority of people use and approve of their vehicles, that's one example of government being somewhat useful.

Back in the days of responsible government the gasoline and road use taxes could only be used for that.

Now it's all folded into the "general fund" to be wasted subsidizing the lazy

 

[wizzard426]

This is nothing new, just a rehash of the same old communist's unicorn fart fantasies

https://www.thestranger.com/news/2004/11/11/19813/the-urban-archipelago

Ok. Don't need us "flyover folks"? Feed yourselves.

Without oil.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Back in the days of responsible government the gasoline and road use taxes could only be used for that.

Now it's all folded into the "general fund" to be wasted subsidizing the lazy

If your point is government massively steals and wastes money, and vehicles have to some extent made people physically lazy, I agree on all accounts.

 

[Rightguide]

Yes, when the government heavily subsidizes something, people will consume more of it.

Then why aren't more people using the railroads and city transit systems?

 

[Rightguide]

So? Nobody is making anyone give up their car.

It’s just nice when there are options to choose from. For example, where I live there is a traditional walkable downtown, and a new compact walkable town center out in the suburbs. There are also many many many unwalkable suburbs neighborhoods. People are free to make their own choices about which neighborhood they want to live in.

So, 76% is a lot more than the 60% you claimed.

 

[wizzard426]

If your point is government massively steals and wastes money, and vehicles have to some extent made people physically lazy, I agree on all accounts.

Government massively steals. Ok.

Wasted money. Ok

At what extent have "vehicles" made people lazy?

I know...

Let's ban "THE WHEEL"

Or am I saying that pre wheel societies aren't as advanced as post wheel societies?

 

[TastySuckToy]

At what extent have "vehicles" made people lazy?

I said vehicles have made people somewhat lazy, it goes without saying people are generally lazy to begin with.

For example, I think a lot of people will hop into their vehicle and drive around the corner to pickup something that would've only been a five minute walk, including a walk there and back.

Heck, I admit even I'm guilty of this.

 

[Rightguide]

I said vehicles have made people somewhat lazy, it goes without saying people are generally lazy to begin with.

For example, I think a lot of people will hop into their vehicle and drive around the corner to pickup something that would've only been a five minute walk, including a walk there and back.

Heck, I admit even I'm guilty of this.

We all are. Except for purposeful recreation and employment reasons, I probably walked more miles before I got a driver's license than afterward.

 

[dmallord]

New town centers have been added to suburbia all across the nation. One nice example is Waterside at Lakewood Ranch in Florida. It has restaurants, bars, shops, offices, a park, townhouses and two apartment complexes. It is connected to the surrounding neighborhoods of single-family homes by wide bike/walk paths separated from the roads. There is a weekly farmer’s market and other events.

Waterside is 100% paid for by private developers but it takes an enlightened county to issue building permits for such a place.

It’s a beautiful village center. Nothing to be afraid of. Nothing dystopian about it. And as I said, these types of places are being added to suburbs in lots of regions.

https://lwrwaterside.com/waterside-place/

View attachment 2323115

I looked into the Florida lakeside burb. This is a fifty-square-mile area designed primarily as a retirement community with homes ranging from $300,000 to $3m. I noticed all the homes had two and three-car garages. The map shows a remote industrial park with various businesses - outside the burb, nothing industrial as in manufacturing - think paper pushers variety of jobs. Thus its mixed community claim for jobs.

The person I contacted said it is a private funded development started by one family, it is 30 years into the program on a 50 year project.

I suspect this model is far from the 'common man's wealth level, which is the topic of discussion here - those fifteen-minute lifestyle cities.

Clearly, it is not dystopian. But not designed for a nation of 300,000,000 folks spread out across a vast continent.

 

[dmallord]

Hampstead in Montgomery, Alabama, a 416-acre new town established in 2008, offers a model for community design that promotes interaction and well-being



View attachment 2323183

There’s nothing dystopian about thoughtfully designed, compact, walkable new towns.

This appears to be a better plan than the Florida one in that its design and regulatory body remains in the hands of the public instead of the 'developer's hands' in Florida. I could live here - except for the heat and 'skeeters' noted for their ability to carry off a person in Alabama.

 

[dmallord]

Why do threads start off here somewhat civil and nosedive into mudwrestling, name-calling, and hateful diatribes not closely related to the origin of the topic?

Have you ever heard of counting to ten when you were growing up? Sorry ... that should be 'while you are growing up.'

 

[Rightguide]

Why do threads start off here somewhat civil and nosedive into mudwrestling, name-calling, and hateful diatribes not closely related to the origin of the topic?

Have you ever heard of counting to ten when you were growing up? Sorry ... that should be 'while you are growing up.'

Careful, BSG may have got her start in mud wrestling.

 

[dmallord]

Just looked at a factoid about the impact of cars/trucks on this thread:

In 2022, about 135.06 billion gallons (or about 3.22 billion barrels)1 of finished motor gasoline were consumed in the United States, an average of about 370 million gallons per day (or about 8.81 million barrels per day). The record high level of finished motor gasoline consumption was about 392 million gallons per day in 2018.

There are 42 U.S. gallons in a barrel. So, roughly 135 billion gallons of fuel products in 2022.

Anyone have a clue as to how many gallons would be saved by building the walkable cities - assuming the government wanted to begin such projects?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Then why aren't more people using the railroads and city transit systems?

If the government spent as much on trains as it spends on highways more people would ride them. Make the rail network go more places, and run more trains more often.

On a smaller scale, converting a few car lanes to dedicated bus lanes would get more people on buses. People don't ride the bus now because buses have to share the street with private cars which makes them slow. Once you have buses breezing past traffic jams, people will ride them more.

 

[Lazaran]

One thing you better account for in a future filled with dense walkable cities (no cars) , is emergency preparedness / evacuation plans on a massive scale.

I suppose most future cities could be "hardened" against wildfires and Hurricanes, etc, through creative construction planning and methods, but there will still be times when an entire population (or a significant portion) of a city needs to “get out now” en masse, due to a mega fire, a monster hurricane, a Tsunami, the release of toxic chemicals from a train derailment or an accident at a chemical plant, etc, etc,

Private vehicles allow for evacuation with family, pets, important documents, and some important valuables.

I’m not sue how you would achieve an acceptable emergency evacuation without private vehicles.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

If the government spent as much on trains as it spends on highways more people would ride them. Make the rail network go more places, and run more trains more often.

The railway industry is as much about real estate as it is about transportation. Rail projects take years if not decades to complete and typically end up vastly exceeding projected costs. California’s high speed rail project is a case in point. BART is another.