AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[AwkwardMD]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/0e/1f/830e1f351cba28585166a99b71f1dfb5.gif

 

[Bramblethorn]

So you say this…

Then this….

To disprove my premise that there was a past between you two?

Your claim was not merely "a past between you two" but specifically a past "loosely around sex work" - that point being significant in this context. Omenainen and I have both asked you how about that part of the claim, you even quoted her asking you in your reply to her, and yet for some reason your answer hasn't addressed it.

Here's that quote again, to refresh memories:

If I’m not mistaken, there was a prior disagreement of sorts between Omen vs Emily, right? Before the review, although perhaps after the request for a review. Also loosely around sex work.

For the third time of asking: can you clarify whether the conversation you provided, as evidence of your claim about "a prior disagreement... loosely around sex work", was in fact about sex work?

I’m not sure how you comprehended anything other than me saying omen and Emily had a spat before the review was published. Try te-reading.

Because it's really starting to look like you're trying to back away from the fact that your claim was more specific than just "had a spat".

If you did in fact misremember it - if that previous exchange wasn't actually about sex work at all - it would be nice if you'd acknowledge that. After all, actually acknowledging a misstep is the right thing to do, when one makes a misstep.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Sort yourself out mate and stop stirring. A quick search will show you Emily has posted on the feedback forum 9 times in the past year before asking for a review. She knew it was here, but chose the AH instead for added visibility and who cares! Her structured feedback post was well received and spawned others. No-one is hung up on it, it happened ages ago.

I may have this wrong. But I think most of my SF posts were on one of two threads. One was about stories nearly at 4.5 but not. I can’t recall why I ended up there, probably someone I know posted there.

And a thread I started. Which I think - and I may have this wrong - I started in AH and was moved to SF by @AH_Mod

If I recall right, that’s fucking hilarious.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

It is not a personal attack to say your grammar needed a second pass.

I don’t think it was. As above, my concerns were:

• Being told I didn’t respect sex workers
• The Emily writes like a man comment
• The anyone who says anything good about your work does so because they are objectifying you

I don’t have any strong feelings about comments on my grammar. None of this is anything to do with grammar.

Emily

 

[Devinter]

@EmilyMiller - I would never tell you what to do, but I strongly implore you to be cautious about oversharing and making any references to real-life experiences that cause you pain and grief in the open forum where it may potentially be misunderstood, brought into the spotlight more than you are comfortable with, or even used as ammunition against you in the future. Please be wary. I understand the desire to explain yourself and to be understood by your peers, but be careful not to do so at the detriment of your long-term wellbeing.

 

[Winter_Fare]

I don’t think it was. As above, my concerns were:

• Being told I didn’t respect sex workers
• The Emily writes like a man comment
• The anyone who says anything good about your work does so because they are objectifying you

I don’t have any strong feelings about comments on my grammar. None of this is anything to do with grammar.

Emily

It's a credit to you that you've made a solid story out of a personally damaging experience, but do you see in retrospect how that may have coloured your response to the feedback you got? How much of a massive overreaction this is?

I don't believe they said that everyone who ever said anything good about your work was objectifying you. That's what you heard, I'll credit that, but I don't need a magic eight ball to know that's not what was said.

I sat on my hands the last couple of days trying to think of there was anything constructive I could add, and this is all I have to contribute. Strong feelings have no place here. It's a story thread. About stories.

 

[Winter_Fare]

I’m not sure how you comprehended anything other than me saying omen and Emily had a spat before the review was published. Try re-reading.

That's not a spat. That was someone sharing an opinion.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It's a credit to you that you've made a solid story out of a personally damaging experience, but do you see in retrospect how that may have coloured your response to the feedback you got? How much of a massive overreaction this is?

I’m really sorry. But I didn’t get triggered about comments on my BDSM scene. When my essay publishes, you’ll see that I pretty much agree.

I don't believe they said that everyone who ever said anything good about your work was objectifying you. That's what you heard, I'll credit that, but I don't need a magic eight ball to know that's not what was said.

I’m not going to post the screenshot here. That’s against the rules. But I’m really sorry, that was what was said. Maybe AMD phrased it poorly in what was a high-charged exchange. But it was definitively said. You can believe what you want. I know what was said.

I sat on my hands the last couple of days trying to think of there was anything constructive I could add, and this is all I have to contribute. Strong feelings have no place here. It's a story thread. About stories.

I agree. Strong feelings should have no place in a review either. I’m sure you must agree with that given your stance.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

@EmilyMiller - I would never tell you what to do, but I strongly implore you to be cautious about oversharing and making any references to real-life experiences that cause you pain and grief in the open forum where it may potentially be misunderstood, brought into the spotlight more than you are comfortable with, or even used as ammunition against you in the future. Please be wary. I understand the desire to explain yourself and to be understood by your peers, but be careful not to do so at the detriment of your long-term wellbeing.

I really appreciate the advice and you are right.

But I am so far past that.

Emily

 

[AwkwardlySet]

And a thread I started. Which I think - and I may have this wrong - I started in AH and was moved to SF by @AH_Mod

You triggered me for a moment with this, but no, the thread wasn't moved. It is still in AH. As if I needed another reason to be pissed off at mods here

 

[AwkwardMD]

That's not a spat. That was someone sharing an opinion.

I sincerely appreciate the attempts to bring calm and levelheadedness, but I think that the productive conversations around this have been had. We've hit the point of diminished returns on hashing out the nuance and meaning from this word or that.

And, scene

 

[EmilyMiller]

So, I’ve said this before. It bears repeating.

I now understand why AMD and Om were upset by elements of my story. I had no clue before. I’m not a troll and I wasn’t trying to provoke a reaction.

I picked a story I felt was uneven and not wholly successful as I thought I would learn more from it being reviewed than my better work.

If I knew then what I know now about AMD and Om’s views on sex work, I would never have picked that story. That’s on me, I should have looked into it.

To reiterate, I seem to have an issue with people believing me, but I had no clue that my story would be triggering. If I did, I would have picked something else.

I apologize to AMD and Om for my carelessness in this respect and if my story caused them any pain. This was never my intention, but intention doesn’t get you off the hook of causing harm. I am sorry that I chose so poorly. That I didn’t spend more time trying to understand who the reviewers were.

I won’t be making that mistake again.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

You triggered me for a moment with this, but no, the thread wasn't moved. It is still in AH. As if I needed another reason to be pissed off at mods here

Not my review thread, this thread.

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/which-author-s-would-you-recommend.1581057/

Again, I may have it all wrong.

Em

 

[vagrantx]

no idea who I am beyond my handle on an internet forum.)

Well, you say that, but.... look behind you!

 

[Winter_Fare]

Well, you say that, but.... look behind you!

 

[KeithD]

As to the San Francisco scenario, a quick google tells me that approximately 20,000 gay men died from AIDS in San Francisco in the 1980s. The epidemic was hardly a detail like trolley cars or fog. But I am afraid my example has diverted from rather than explained my point.

I would probably be the last to couch a story in this particular venue without dealing with AIDS--largely because of how close I came to the reality of this at the time. The first man to be diagnosed with AIDS in Thailand, in 1985, was a U.S. embassy officer. At the time his condition was made public, I was upcountry with him at a Thai university, doing play vignettes together and lecturing on American drama with him. We were sharing a room. We would have been involved if he wasn't holding back, knowing what he knew that I didn't. Even in Bangkok, we lived in the same apartment house and partied together. (I thought he and his live in, a hair dresser, were being snotty to insist on bringing their own wine glasses to our parties when they were, in fact, saving us. Same with the officer's ignoring my signaling that I was available to him.)

That said, I weave GM stories of worlds of my own construction. Most of my stories have a rent-boy aspect, although more than half of them are not for monetary pay. Most of them do involve some sort of compensation for sex. Most of them don't delve into safe sex because I don't find that sexy. They either ignore the issue or they establish in that world that it's not a threat (characters have access to wonder drugs that negate the effect. which is mentioned but not dwelled on). The GM worlds I create and write in rarely take AIDS into account at all. And that's not because I don't know the danger and effect and how close to it I've brushed myself, but because I'm trying to write arousing fiction--and I don't find the danger of AIDS arousing. I don't offer that level of reality. I don't think that's required at Literotica.

I do, though, have stories here that deal with the AIDS aspect head on, including my own initial experience with it in Bangkok in 1985.

This is a Lit. story in the sr71plt account that is inspired by this happening: https://www.literotica.com/s/rude-awakening-4

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Not my review thread, this thread.

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/which-author-s-would-you-recommend.1581057/

Again, I may have it all wrong.

Em

Oh, okay. I can't see why that thread would be moved but all right, anything is possible here

 

[vagrantx]

The first man to be diagnosed with AIDS in Thailand, in 1985, was a U.S. embassy officer. [...]

As someone who grew up in that part of the world at the time, hanging onto dads coattails as he commuted between Vientiane and Bangkok, and then gone on to be a part of a major sex workers rights organization in Sweden, I still had no idea about this part of history. HIV/AIDS is not talked about enough in gay women's circles. Thank you for talking about this, I know what I'll be reading up on for the rest of the night.

 

[jsmiam]

Your claim was not merely "a past between you two" but specifically a past "loosely around sex work" - that point being significant in this context. Omenainen and I have both asked you how about that part of the claim, you even quoted her asking you in your reply to her, and yet for some reason your answer hasn't addressed it.

Here's that quote again, to refresh memories:



For the third time of asking: can you clarify whether the conversation you provided, as evidence of your claim about "a prior disagreement... loosely around sex work", was in fact about sex work?



Because it's really starting to look like you're trying to back away from the fact that your claim was more specific than just "had a spat".

If you did in fact misremember it - if that previous exchange wasn't actually about sex work at all - it would be nice if you'd acknowledge that. After all, actually acknowledging a misstep is the right thing to do, when one makes a misstep.

My memory failed me. The victoria14x story and therefore discussion was a foot fetish story i think. (Still on my phone. It’s clumsy to do research.). Not sex work. Mea culpa on that specific item.

And if you’re saying that mistake changes whether what happened was a spat, considering omen’s self acknowledged irritation, then I am left speechless.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Oh, okay. I can't see why that thread would be moved but all right, anything is possible here

I may well be misremembering. It is possible I started it here. It’s hard to remember all the details of nearly 8,500 posts.

It sure seems like something I’d post on AH.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

My memory failed me. The victoria14x story and therefore discussion was a foot fetish story i think. (Still on my phone. It’s clumsy to do research.). Not sex work. Mea culpa on that specific item.

And if you’re saying that mistake changes whether what happened was a spat, considering omen’s self acknowledged irritation, then I am left speechless.

I’ve apologized for the unintentional offense I caused Om by starting that review thread on AH. I didn’t know she was upset.

I’ve tried to explain my intentions. Probably not the central issue here.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

This whole thing is about triggering.

Feelings escalated quickly. I’ve admitted seeing red and being in an altered state for way too long. It was a train wreck. I’m far from innocent in this.

I’ve tried to explain why I was triggered. I’ve tried to acknowledge that my choice of story was reckless.

I’ve apologized for starting a review thread on AH.

I’m not going to argue minutiae about this anymore.

I’ve not behaved well over the last few days, mostly as I was a gibbering mess. I’m more myself now.

This could have been avoided if I had looked into both this thread and the reviewers’ entirely legitimate preoccupations (which I broadly support).

I’ll also publicly apologize to @Bramblethorn I should know better that to get into discussions when the red mist is on me. I’m sorry that I put you in a bad place.

I’m not sure I can contribute any more.

Emily

 

[KeithD]

As someone who grew up in that part of the world at the time, hanging onto dads coattails as he commuted between Vientiane and Bangkok, and then gone on to be a part of a major sex workers rights organization in Sweden, I still had no idea about this part of history. HIV/AIDS is not talked about enough in gay women's circles. Thank you for talking about this, I know what I'll be reading up on for the rest of the night.

It was shocking that the first AIDS victim identified in Thailand, as sexually open as Bangkok was at the time, would be a U.S. foreign service officer. A lovely, highly talented black man who spoke impeccable French and Vietnamese and whose job was to compile lists of children born to U.S. servicemen and Vietnamese women during the Vietnam war, and to fly to Vietnam twice a week to bring out the mother and child of any U.S. serviceman who would acknowledge paternity and provide sponsorship. A talented actor and singer with a velvety baritone voice. A great loss.

 

[TheseLegs]

Hi,

With regards to the reviewing service of @AwkwardMD and @Omenainen, which might be best kept as the focus of this thread, I am seeking to improve my craft and having recently become aware of it (this thread, your service), I thought I'd very politely ask for one of your in-depth analyses of my most recent story.

Currently a 2.2

I never a lot of negative comments about grammar, so I don't think it's that. Will you, or anyone with a minute, please let me know what I did wrong?

 

[KeithD]

I’m not sure I can contribute any more.

Emily

Well, you can, of course. This is a board that will let this be water under the bridge without a strict accounting of relative guilt for anything. Just carry on as you were doing before and folks will happily fall in with that.