closed Thread

[ll74]

They are very accurate. He once said of the rise of fascism in Europe in the 1930s that capitalism is puking up its undigested barbarism.

He's been dead a while.

Ah yes, Biden's proxy war by surrounding Russia in all directions and threatening a massacre of ethnic Russians in the Donbass. He sure likes massacres, doesn't he? Didn't Menachem Begin, of all people, have to slap Biden down in the 1980s because of his bloodlust?

Biden isn't fighting. Hamas attacked Israel and took hostages. Perhaps you heard.

100% pressure on the Zionists, who are the ethnic cleansers and genociders in Palestine.

Hamas can end this war tomorrow. Israel and a ceasefire will only end it temporarily. Pick your poison.

 

[RandyRebecca]

He's been dead a while.

Not his politics.

Biden isn't fighting. Hamas attacked Israel and took hostages. Perhaps you heard.

He is funding the Zionist forces, even bypassed Congress to do one of the "aid packages". He is saying "I am a Zionist" in public. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been massacred, something like 70% of them women and children. Genocide Joe has massively crossed the line and can't ever come back. And Netanyahu always seems to have a permanent smirk on his face whenever I see him.

Hamas can end this war tomorrow. Israel and a ceasefire will only end it temporarily. Pick your poison.

With what the Zionists have done, they have created the next generation of Palestinian freedom fighters.

 

[ShandyLeer]

Yes, it exposes capitalist liberals and their bankrupt morality. They'd like us to believe that what's happening is two equal forces with the Palestinians as the bad guys, instead of the Palestinian violence being akin to slave uprisings against their oppressors. Palestine isn't even a sovereign state, doesn't have a standing army, while Israel is armed to the teeth and funded with billions of $$$$$ by Zionist Genocide Joe, and powerful lobbyists like AIPAC.

It’s hardly much to do with Biden is it Randy, I mean the US has been picking up Israel’s tab for decades.

Israel is armed to the teeth because as any fucking idiot can see, they’d be over run if they weren’t. This is hardly speculation on my part - how many times have Arab neighbours attacked them ?

It’s a shitty bit of land that a good dose of proper socialism, a functioning democracy and intelligent capitalism has seen transformed into an advanced modern society and produced endless Nobel prize winners. Which in a lot of folks eyes justifies the US support in itself.

The whole of the rest of Arabia has advanced not a fucking inch in the meantime, save for some having the good fortune to find themselves sat on top of black gold. If a sliver of that were directed at investing in Palestinians instead of Bugattis and hookers we might see some progress.

 

[ll74]

Not his politics.

Obviously, you believe they apply. They don't.

He is funding the Zionist forces, even bypassed Congress to do one of the "aid packages". He is saying "I am a Zionist" in public. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been massacred, something like 70% of them women and children. Genocide Joe has massively crossed the line and can't ever come back. And Netanyahu always seems to have a permanent smirk on his face whenever I see him.

Hamas attacked and took hostages. Admit that sometime. It might help

With what the Zionists have done, they have created the next generation of Palestinian freedom fighters.

Yes, you favor instability and terrorism......as you've demonstrated.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Obviously, you believe they apply. They don't.

Oh they do. They do. It's more far seeing than any other political ideology.

Hamas attacked and took hostages. Admit that sometime. It might help

It was akin to a slave uprising. Palestine has no standing army and isn't a sovereign state.

Yes, you favor instability and terrorism......as you've demonstrated.

I favor the end of Zionism with its apartheid and ethno-nationalist state, and it's ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinian people. All of it should be thrown into the dustbin of history. The ethnic cleansing has been going on since 1947-48. I also very strongly resent the power of Zionist lobbies in US politics, Wall Street and Hollywood. I never want to hear any more talk about "Russian interference" or "Chinese interference" considering the power that Zionist lobbies have.

 

[ll74]

Oh they do. They do. It's more far seeing than any other political ideology.

Glad you agree with me.

It was akin to a slave uprising. Palestine has no standing army and isn't a sovereign state.

It was a terrorist attack.

I favor the end of Zionism with its apartheid and ethno-nationalist state, and it's ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinian people. All of it should be thrown into the dustbin of history. The ethnic cleansing has been going on since 1947-48. I also very strongly resent the power of Zionist lobbies in US politics, Wall Street and Hollywood. I never want to hear any more talk about "Russian interference" or "Chinese interference" considering the power that Zionist lobbies have.

I don't care. I favor a two state solution and you don't care. Quit repeating the same horseshit to me.

You offer nothing to this thread of value. Information is the purpose of this thread. Try providing some rather than just bitching all the time like white_bB and Dribs

 

[rainsol]

Religion isn't the problem. Government enforced religion is.

Your dumb as a rock, who the fuck runs religion in Iran?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Your dumb as a rock, who the fuck runs religion in Iran?

The government.

 

[ll74]

Your dumb as a rock, who the fuck runs religion in Iran?

The government. It's a theocracy. That's what happens when you form a government based on a religion. Hope this helps

 

[snailspace]

It was akin to a slave uprising. Palestine has no standing army and isn't a sovereign state.

Then the rules of war do not apply. You can't have it both ways.

 

[snailspace]

Glad you agree with me.


It was a terrorist attack.


I don't care. I favor a two state solution and you don't care. Quit repeating the same horseshit to me.

You offer nothing to this thread of value. Information is the purpose of this thread. Try providing some rather than just bitching all the time like white_bB and Dribs

Stop putting people down, stop demeaning others stop attacking others. The poster does add something of value. The value of poster ads is to show the utter hatred for Jews by calling Israel a genocide state and an apartheid state just shows worse than other ignorance it shows. Hatred and that is a value for us who read what the poster writes

 

[ll74]

Stop putting people down, stop demeaning others stop attacking others.

No

The poster does add something of value.

No, she doesn't.

The value of poster ads is to show the utter hatred for Jews by calling Israel a genocide state and an apartheid state just shows worse than other ignorance it shows. Hatred and that is a value for us who read what the poster writes

The thread is about the war and information about the war. Hatred of either party doesn't contribute to that.

Neither do you

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Oh they do. They do. It's more far seeing than any other political ideology.


It was akin to a slave uprising. Palestine has no standing army and isn't a sovereign state.


I favor the end of Zionism with its apartheid and ethno-nationalist state, and it's ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinian people. All of it should be thrown into the dustbin of history. The ethnic cleansing has been going on since 1947-48. I also very strongly resent the power of Zionist lobbies in US politics, Wall Street and Hollywood. I never want to hear any more talk about "Russian interference" or "Chinese interference" considering the power that Zionist lobbies have.

Zionism is the belief that the Jews deserve their own nation in their historic homeland. Jews lived in Judea continuously for thousands of years under the thumbs of different waves of conquerors—the Persians, the Romans, the Arabs, the Ottomans. They deserve self-rule like everyone else.

 

[RobDownSouth]

How about that?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1740226041254440999

 

[RandyRebecca]

Zionism is the belief that the Jews deserve their own nation in their historic homeland

Zionism is the belief of creating an ethno-nationalist state in the name of "Jews". That is why the Zionists denounce any opposition to Israel as "anti-semitism". As far as I can see, only Zionists and Nazis think that Jewishness is a nation or a race. Everybody else thinks Jewishness is purely a culture and religion.

Also, the saying "a land without people" was extremely false. Palestine in 1947, at the time of the UN Partition Plan, was home to around 1.8 million people, around 68% of whom were Gentiles and 32% of whom were Jews. It was a land holy to the people of three different religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) and had been for centuries. That's not to say that there hadn't been some ugly wars there in the past, like Richard I of England's Christian crusades against the Muslim Saladin and the Saracens in the late 12th century.

The 1947 UN plan massively deepened sectarianism in Palestine, and then came the Nakba which expelled over 700,000 of the more than 1.2 million Palestinian Gentile population from their lands. Therefore, Israel was founded in 1948 on massive ethnic cleansing. In the years prior, there were terrorist actions by Zionist militias like the Irgun, against the British forces there, when it looked like the British in the 1940s were reneging on the 1917 Balfour Declaration that had promised a "Jewish homeland" in Palestine, and the British politicians were instead starting to look in favor of doing deals with Arabian leaders.

Incidentally, at the time of the Balfour Declaration in 1917, the Jewish population of Palestine was less than 10%. A one state solution of Palestine is the only way forward. The people there of all religions and none must learn to live together, in a secular state. That means an end to Zionism.

Jews lived in Judea continuously for thousands of years under the thumbs of different waves of conquerors—the Persians, the Romans, the Arabs, the Ottomans. They deserve self-rule like everyone else.

Imagine descendents of Ancient Rome saying to people in European countries "God says this is my land, as my ancestors lived here thousands of years ago" and then they proceed to remove them with force of arms, bulldozing their houses etc. That's Israel to the Palestinians.

 

[ShandyLeer]

Zionism is the belief of creating an ethno-nationalist state in the name of "Jews". That is why the Zionists denounce any opposition to Israel as "anti-semitism". As far as I can see, only Zionists and Nazis think that Jewishness is a nation or a race. Everybody else thinks Jewishness is purely a culture and religion.

Also, the saying "a land without people" was extremely false. Palestine in 1947, at the time of the UN Partition Plan, was home to around 1.8 million people, around 68% of whom were Gentiles and 32% of whom were Jews. It was a land holy to the people of three different religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism). The UN plan introduced sectarianism, and then came the Nakba which expelled over 700,000 of the more than 1.2 million Palestinian Gentile population from their lands. Israel was founded in 1948 on massive ethnic cleansing. In the years prior, there were terrorist actions by Zionist militias like the Irgun, against the British forces there, when it looked like the British in the 1940s were reneging on the 1917 Balfour Declaration that had promised a "Jewish homeland" in Palestine, and the British politicians were instead starting to look in favor of doing deals with Arabian leaders.

Incidentally, at the time of the Balfour Declaration in 1917, the Jewish population of Palestine was less than 10%. A one state solution of Palestine is the only way forward. The people there of all religions and none must learn to live together, in a secular state. That means an end to Zionism.


Imagine descendents of Ancient Rome saying to people in European countries "God says this is my land, as my ancestors lived here thousands of years ago" and then they proceed to remove them with force of arms, bulldozing their houses etc. That's Israel to the Palestinians.

What is the point of this navel gazing ? Are you proposing rolling back the last 70 years and taking Israel back off them ?

 

[RandyRebecca]

What is the point of this navel gazing ? Are you proposing rolling back the last 70 years and taking Israel back off them ?

A one state solution of Palestine is the only way forward, for peoples of all religions and none. The Zionist project sees a state in the name of "Jews", and has Jewish supremacy and Greater Israel at its core. Israel came into being by ethnic cleansing, and has been doing it ever since. It won't ever stop.

I'm frankly amazed that any real democrat can object to a secular state where peoples of all religions and none live together with equal rights, and instead favor Zionism with its ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

[ShandyLeer]

A one state solution of Palestine is the only way forward, for peoples of all religions and none. The Zionist project sees a state in the name of "Jews", and has Jewish supremacy and Greater Israel at its core. Israel came into being by ethnic cleansing, and has been doing it ever since. It won't ever stop.

I'm frankly amazed that any real democrat can object to a secular state where peoples of all religions and none live together with equal rights, and instead favor Zionism with its ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Sure, good luck with that.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Sure, good luck with that.

Do you support a secular state there? Or do you prefer the current situation where IDF forces have killed well over 20,000 Palestinians in less than 3 months, most of them women and children? The killings are not over yet either.

 

[jomar]

Genocide Joe?

Congrats RandyRebecca, you have met this years CEU requirements for your talking points. You get nods from your handlers for consistency in claiming Biden started the Ukraine was by surrounding Russia with NATO forces and otherwise twisting history. Well done!

 

[Rightguide]

How Surprise Attack is Possible​

By Phil Wasielewski
December 27, 2023

Hamas’ surprise terrorist attack against Israel on October 7, and the subsequent fighting in Gaza has again plunged the Middle East into a situation bordering on apocalyptic. The horrors of the attack are compounded by the shock that Israel’s vaunted intelligence services were seemingly caught unawares after decades of exceptional performance. Recently, a rather damning report claims that Israeli intelligence intercepted Hamas’ attack plan but that the plan was considered “aspirational” and incapable of being implemented.

How could this happen?

The truth will probably not be fully known until an impartial and dispassionate investigation can be conducted, similar to the Agranat Commission that reviewed Israeli intelligence and defense shortcomings prior to the October War of 1973. When an investigation of the Hamas surprise attack is completed, it will likely provide not lessons learned but lessons relearned regarding not only intelligence collection and analysis, but also military and political judgements. These judgements will likely have been clouded by four attributes of human nature that are a common factor in surprise attacks. If the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are Death, Famine, War, and Pestilence, then the four horsemen of surprise attack are Ambiguity, Misperception, Deception, and Preconception.

Ambiguity, information open to more than one interpretation, is the constant companion of intelligence work. Rarely, if ever, do sources provide a clear view of enemy capabilities, plans, and intentions. Instead, they offer partial views, and sometimes even erroneous ones, either on purpose or by human error. Studies of past surprise attacks show that victims often had indications of the attack (signals) but were unable to recognize them because of the ambiguous nature of the reporting, as well as the plethora of competing and contradictory reports (noise). In November 1941, most in Washington and Hawaii assumed that war with Japan was coming, but also assumed that Japan would strike only the mineral rich colonies of Southeast Asia and not also Pearl Harbor.

Errors like this occur because the greater the ambiguity, the greater the chance of misperception or wishful thinking. Misperceptions can result from honest mistakes in interpreting ambiguous information such as when Israeli intelligence misperceived the buildup of Egyptian forces along the Suez Canal in the fall of 1973 as training maneuvers instead of attack preparations.

Much more here: https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2023/12/27/how_surprise_attack_is_possible_1001403.html

In the years to come, we'll look back at the invasive disaster unfolding on our southern border and manifesting itself in our cities as being fueled by Ambiguity, Misperception, Deception, Preconception, and a dose of treason.

 

[ll74]

How Surprise Attack is Possible​

By Phil Wasielewski
December 27, 2023

Hamas’ surprise terrorist attack against Israel on October 7, and the subsequent fighting in Gaza has again plunged the Middle East into a situation bordering on apocalyptic. The horrors of the attack are compounded by the shock that Israel’s vaunted intelligence services were seemingly caught unawares after decades of exceptional performance. Recently, a rather damning report claims that Israeli intelligence intercepted Hamas’ attack plan but that the plan was considered “aspirational” and incapable of being implemented.

How could this happen?

The truth will probably not be fully known until an impartial and dispassionate investigation can be conducted, similar to the Agranat Commission that reviewed Israeli intelligence and defense shortcomings prior to the October War of 1973. When an investigation of the Hamas surprise attack is completed, it will likely provide not lessons learned but lessons relearned regarding not only intelligence collection and analysis, but also military and political judgements. These judgements will likely have been clouded by four attributes of human nature that are a common factor in surprise attacks. If the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are Death, Famine, War, and Pestilence, then the four horsemen of surprise attack are Ambiguity, Misperception, Deception, and Preconception.

Ambiguity, information open to more than one interpretation, is the constant companion of intelligence work. Rarely, if ever, do sources provide a clear view of enemy capabilities, plans, and intentions. Instead, they offer partial views, and sometimes even erroneous ones, either on purpose or by human error. Studies of past surprise attacks show that victims often had indications of the attack (signals) but were unable to recognize them because of the ambiguous nature of the reporting, as well as the plethora of competing and contradictory reports (noise). In November 1941, most in Washington and Hawaii assumed that war with Japan was coming, but also assumed that Japan would strike only the mineral rich colonies of Southeast Asia and not also Pearl Harbor.

Errors like this occur because the greater the ambiguity, the greater the chance of misperception or wishful thinking. Misperceptions can result from honest mistakes in interpreting ambiguous information such as when Israeli intelligence misperceived the buildup of Egyptian forces along the Suez Canal in the fall of 1973 as training maneuvers instead of attack preparations.

Much more here: https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2023/12/27/how_surprise_attack_is_possible_1001403.html

In the years to come, we'll look back at the invasive disaster unfolding on our southern border and manifesting itself in our cities as being fueled by Ambiguity, Misperception, Deception, Preconception, and a dose of treason.

If you want to post about the US border, please create a thread on the topic (or use one of the many already existing ones)

 

[Rightguide]

All well and good.

But as you concede yourself in your penultimate paragraph the response is exactly what you say it is - disproportionate.

That was always going to be the case in the eyes of Israel haters, the usual left wing/student/ Muslim faction.

But now it begins to look disproportionate in the eyes of more reasonable people usually more inclined to give support, or at least the benefit of the doubt, to Israel.

I‘m a supporter of the Israelis in most circumstances - and absolutely support their need to smash into Hamas til they yield and if necessary the Iranians - but listening to some of you dodgy fuckers here dehumanising civilians, including kids and babies buried under rubble, based on their bloodline reminds me how programmed you are.

To deter a future attack the proper response is overwhelming force. For instance in 1988 when Iran attacked and nearly sank the USS Samuel B. Roberts Ronald Reagan sank half of Iran's naval fleet.

 

[Rightguide]

If you want to post about the US border, please create a thread on the topic (or use one of the many already existing ones)

Fuck off, the article is about a fuck up, the first paragraph has a link to a report on the intelligence failure on the day of the beginning of the Israeli/Hamas war which is the subject. My comment at the end was how Biden's Ambiguity, aspirational Misperception, Deception, and Preconception might bring the same kind of disaster to us here at home on our border.

We should call this the Biden war on the West. He funded the Iranians who funded Hamas and the Houthis. Biden conveniently delisted the Houthis from the terror watch list in February of 2021 and now we reap the reward. Because Joe Biden is the real Manchurian Candidate.

 

[Rightguide]

I thought you were convinced the US was already overstretched?

If Biden bombed the fuck out of the Houthis, or gave the Iranians a bloody nose - which you imply, possibly correctly, that he lacks the bottle to do - you’d be first here to condemn him.

You're full of crap and quite possibly can't read for comprehension. When did I say an attack on the US shouldn't be answered with overwhelming force?