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What Did Joe Biden Do With 7.5 Billion For EV Chargers?

Many Car Dealers Are Getting Nervous About EV Push​

Concern about electric vehicles’ appeal is mounting as some customers show a reluctance to switch​

On Sheehy’s car lots, LaRochelle says there is a six- to 12-month supply of EVs, compared with a month of gasoline-powered vehicles.

Battery-powered models have been piling up on car lots, dealers say, as EV sales growth has slowed in the U.S. this year. Car companies have been offering a combination of discounts and lower interest-rate deals in an effort to juice demand. But it hasn’t been enough, because buyer reticence extends beyond the price tag, dealers say.

“I’m not hearing the consumer confidence in the technology,” said Mary Rice, dealer principal at Toyota of Greensboro in North Carolina. “People aren’t beating down the door to buy these things, and they all have a different excuse why they aren’t buying one.”


https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/electric-vehicle-push-auto-dealers-slowdown-f0d78280
 
Bray123 said:
Why shouldn't the government subsidise private electric cars?

They subsidise private gas powered cars.

https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-#:~:text=It's not just the US,to the fossil fuel industry.

https://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/
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The argument Senator WhitesOnlyHouse is making is that pollution caused by fossil fuels constitutes a subsidy. If externalities are considered a subsidy, we must acknowledge all the other industries that are subsidized, including EVs which rely on highly polluting processing of rare earth metals, meat (farting cows and pigs), windmills, airplanes, refrigeration, concrete, fertilizer, and many other industries.

EVs obviously get subsidized far beyond the unhealthy externalities they produce. Buyers get tax credits, manufacturers get direct subsidies as well as tax credits, and the industry even gets charging station subsidies.
 
BabyBoomer50s said:
The argument Senator WhitesOnlyHouse is making is that pollution caused by fossil fuels constitutes a subsidy. If externalities are considered a subsidy, we must acknowledge all the other industries that are subsidized, including EVs which rely on highly polluting processing of rare earth metals, meat (farting cows and pigs), windmills, airplanes, refrigeration, concrete, fertilizer, and many other industries.

EVs obviously get subsidized far beyond the unhealthy externalities they produce. Buyers get tax credits, manufacturers get direct subsidies as well as tax credits, and the industry even gets charging station subsidies.
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The US government subsidizes the oil industry with hard cash plus the inferred benefit from pollution etc.

The same argument counts for electrical energy which is a level 2 (created from a primary energy source such as nuclear, coal, tidal etc.). But there's a big wide world out there and if GM & Ford don't get involved, in 20 years time they'll be out of business and you'll be driving a Toyota. If you're not already.
 
Bray123 said:
The US government subsidizes the oil industry with hard cash plus the inferred benefit from pollution etc.

The same argument counts for electrical energy which is a level 2 (created from a primary energy source such as nuclear, coal, tidal etc.). But there's a big wide world out there and if GM & Ford don't get involved, in 20 years time they'll be out of business and you'll be driving a Toyota. If you're not already.
Click to expand...
What “hard cash” subsidies are you referring to?
 
BabyBoomer50s said:
I saw the links. They don’t answer the question.
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As of October 2017, Oil Change International estimates United States fossil fuel exploration and production subsidies at $20.5 billion annually. Other credible estimates of annual United States fossil fuel subsidies range from $10 billion to $52 billion annually – yet none of these include costs borne by taxpayers related to the climate, local environmental, and health impacts of the fossil fuel industry.
 
Bray123 said:
As of October 2017, Oil Change International estimates United States fossil fuel exploration and production subsidies at $20.5 billion annually. Other credible estimates of annual United States fossil fuel subsidies range from $10 billion to $52 billion annually – yet none of these include costs borne by taxpayers related to the climate, local environmental, and health impacts of the fossil fuel industry.
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To be clear, my question is what specific “hard cash” subsidies have been given to the oil industry. My hunch is the answer will be provisions in the tax code such as accelerated depreciation, investment tax credits, R&D deductions and similar things that are available across capital intensive industries (including automotive manufacturers) and not targeted to specific product categories. I don’t think there’s anything comparable in the fossil fuel industry to the purpose and scale of subsidies taxpayers are doling out to manufacturers and consumers of EVs.
 
ll74 said:
But that's not what you said.

Feel free to move the goal posts again
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It's certainly a fact that EVs exist. I never said they didn't but the technolgy isn't ready for primetime use, it's too expensive. The electrical grid is too small and the possibility of tripling its size to accommodate exclusive use of EVs all across America will be opposed by the very same people who are pushing the technology. The present supply of lithium, the main battery component, is controlled by our enemy and the chances of California's communist left opening up its proven reserves of Lithium for mining are nil. The range of EVs is too small. The charging times are too long even in the limited places where they do exist.
 
Rightguide said:
It's certainly a fact that EVs exist. I never said they didn't but the technolgy isn't ready for primetime use, it's too expensive. The electrical grid is too small and the possibility of tripling its size to accommodate exclusive use of EVs all across America will be opposed by the very same people who are pushing the technology. The present supply of lithium, the main battery component, is controlled by our enemy and the chances of California's communist left opening up its proven reserves of Lithium for mining are nil. The range of EVs is too small. The charging times are too long even in the limited places where they do exist.
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I quoted what you said. And then you changed what you said when I proved you full of shit And now you pivot yet again to another goal post move.

People want EVs and are buying EVs.

I know you don't like that, but the likelihood that someone in your area has a Tesla or other EV is high.

Whether you want one is irrelevant to that.
 
Rightguide said:
It's certainly a fact that EVs exist. I never said they didn't but the technolgy isn't ready for primetime use, it's too expensive. The electrical grid is too small and the possibility of tripling its size to accommodate exclusive use of EVs all across America will be opposed by the very same people who are pushing the technology. The present supply of lithium, the main battery component, is controlled by our enemy and the chances of California's communist left opening up its proven reserves of Lithium for mining are nil. The range of EVs is too small. The charging times are too long even in the limited places where they do exist.
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Benefiting from massive government subsidies to producers and consumers, the EV market has become a substantial niche market with a single producer occupying a commanding share of the US market. I’m sure the market will grow, but by how much and how fast is anyone’s guess. ICE vehicles will prevail for years to come. Hybrid remains an attractive option for buyers concerned with range and charger access.
 
BabyBoomer50s said:
Benefiting from massive government subsidies to producers and consumers, the EV market has become a substantial niche market with a single producer occupying a commanding share of the US market. I’m sure the market will grow, but by how much and how fast is anyone’s guess. ICE vehicles will prevail for years to come. Hybrid remains an attractive option for buyers concerned with range and charger access.
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I was confused...thought you were talking about the oil and auto industry.
 
BabyBoomer50s said:
Gas stations are not funded by the federal government. Charging stations shouldn’t be either.
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🤷‍♀️ that's not what my post said that you're quoting.

THis whole thread is about $7.5 billion in Federal funding for EV charging stations that Biden supposedly "stole". I didn't make that accusation, i'm arguing the other side of it. What's your point?
 
ll74 said:
I was confused...thought you were talking about the oil and auto industry.
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No problem. Subsidies to the EV industry were being presented as analogous to oil industry subsidies. I questioned that. I don’t think the analogy holds up. I have also commented on the state of the EV market relative to ICE vehicles.
 
BabyBoomer50s said:

Many Car Dealers Are Getting Nervous About EV Push​

Concern about electric vehicles’ appeal is mounting as some customers show a reluctance to switch​

On Sheehy’s car lots, LaRochelle says there is a six- to 12-month supply of EVs, compared with a month of gasoline-powered vehicles.

Battery-powered models have been piling up on car lots, dealers say, as EV sales growth has slowed in the U.S. this year. Car companies have been offering a combination of discounts and lower interest-rate deals in an effort to juice demand. But it hasn’t been enough, because buyer reticence extends beyond the price tag, dealers say.

“I’m not hearing the consumer confidence in the technology,” said Mary Rice, dealer principal at Toyota of Greensboro in North Carolina. “People aren’t beating down the door to buy these things, and they all have a different excuse why they aren’t buying one.”


https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/electric-vehicle-push-auto-dealers-slowdown-f0d78280
Click to expand...
EVs also piling up in China by the thousands.
 
BabyBoomer50s said:
No problem. Subsidies to the EV industry were being presented as analogous to oil industry subsidies. I questioned that. I don’t think the analogy holds up. I have also commented on the state of the EV market relative to ICE vehicles.
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Free money to companies so that people buy things don't have qualifiers. But whatever works for ya
 
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