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Thoughts on Mary Sue characters.

EmilyMiller said:
I love Star Wars as much as anyone who wasn’t alive in 1977 can.

Looking at them now holistically, the sequels were unconvincing. But I prefer them to the prequels. The sequels were “my Star Wars.” Maybe like the prequels had been for a previous generation. I was very young when TPM came out and the later prequels didn’t really register with me at the time.

TFA was the best of the sequels by some way. The rest had many weaknesses. And sometimes didn’t make a lot of sense. Much as I like Rian Johnson, TLJ was awful in many respects. TROS wasn’t that much better.

But… it takes a certain world view to single out either Rey or Daisy for criticism. There have been female force wielders before, but imagine the impact on young girls when Rey lit up her saber and took on Kylo Ren; that’s precious. It made an impact on me, and I was older by then. Still gives me shivers. Rey was the best thing about the sequels. Her banter with Finn, which they dropped when they decided they had no clue what to do with Finn’s character, was one of the most enjoyable elements of the best movie of the three.

Thing is… and start the hate now. Luke wasn’t that great a hero. Han and Leia were more compelling characters. I know many Rey-haters will say it’s not misogyny and point to all sorts of facts to support their claim. But I’m not buying it. The problem with Rey for some people was that she didn’t have a Y chromosome.

I thought she was a great character in some only kinda OK movies.

Em
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OK, time to clarify something since I guess I started this whole thing. I like Rey, and love Daisy Ridley. I used her as an example because her force skills just seemed to appear fully formed where pretty much every other Jedi or Sith in the entire SWEU took extensive training to get there.
Strong female lead, check. Excellent actress, check. Pretty good story, well sometimes...
Sure, just Like Anakin and Luke, she was using her force powers without knowing what they were for her entire life, it was just the level of automatic mastery she seemed to possess came across to me as a good example of a Mary Sue.
Picking up a stick and wielding it like a samurai is one thing. A lightsaber will cut off your arm like a hot knife through warm butter. I think using it would require some training and she had effectively none.
 
EmilyMiller said:
I thought Fisher held her own with Ford admirably, and she was what, 19 or 20 for ANH? She was a good actress.

Em
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Yeah, she held her own with him pretty well in private, too. Not quite sure which of them I'm most jealous of. 😊
 
StillStunned said:
Lando from "Solo", perhaps.
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Lando from Return of the Jedi. Think about it - sure, the Three muskateers are dropping down onto Endor to engage the empire in melee, but Lando's taking the Falcon (A freighter, albeit a freighter with kill markings) up against the entire Empire fleet - including a super star-destroyer and all its support ships.

He then flies the Falcon down through an incredibly constrained space, while under fire, manages to target and destroy a reactor regulator of some sort, and then escape - all while maintaining overall tactical command of the Rebel fighter fleet.

That's pretty bad-ass.
 
ShelbyDawn57 said:
OK, time to clarify something since I guess I started this whole thing. I like Rey, and love Daisy Ridley. I used her as an example because her force skills just seemed to appear fully formed where pretty much every other Jedi or Sith in the entire SWEU took extensive training to get there.
Strong female lead, check. Excellent actress, check. Pretty good story, well sometimes...
Sure, just Like Anakin and Luke, she was using her force powers without knowing what they were for her entire life, it was just the level of automatic mastery she seemed to possess came across to me as a good example of a Mary Sue.
Picking up a stick and wielding it like a samurai is one thing. A lightsaber will cut off your arm like a hot knife through warm butter. I think using it would require some training and she had effectively none.
Click to expand...
We see Rey’s fighting skills early in TFA. It’s another weapon. Albeit a more civilized one 😉

Em
 
onehitwanda said:
Lando from Return of the Jedi. Think about it - sure, the Three muskateers are dropping down onto Endor to engage the empire in melee, but Han's taking the Falcon (A freighter, albeit a freighter with kill markings) up against the entire Empire fleet - including a super star-destroyer and all its support ships.

He then flies the Falcon down through an incredibly constrained space, while under fire, manages to target and destroy a reactor regulator of some sort, and then escape - all while maintaining overall tactical command of the Rebel fighter fleet.

That's pretty bad-ass.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. And Leia was playing with teddy bears and getting groped by Han while that was going on.
 
EmilyMiller said:
Thing is… and start the hate now. Luke wasn’t that great a hero. Han and Leia were more compelling characters. I know many Rey-haters will say it’s not misogyny and point to all sorts of facts to support their claim. But I’m not buying it. The problem with Rey for some people was that she didn’t have a Y chromosome.

I thought she was a great character in some only kinda OK movies.

Em
Click to expand...

I agree with you about Luke. He was fine, but a bit earnest and dull. What made the movie sparkle was the wise cracking and irreverence from the other characters. That was totally missing from the sequel trilogy.
 
Kumquat's Law strikes again. Yawn.

Seriously, am I missing anything from not seeing the sequel trilogy? I haven't seen films 2 and 3 either, actually. I've had to sit through some of the Mandalorian, but apparently laughing at the plodding pomposity is inappropriate.

On Mary Sue and Gary Stu, they're often self-inserts of the author in bad fanfic. Or just bad fanfic... A more common problem in film and TV is the character who is quite well-drawn and balanced - who then decides to do something totally stupid just so the plot can progress. I don't know if that's got a name? "I'll just explore this creepy basement alone", maybe?
 
onehitwanda said:
condescension purrfectly obvious, that's for sure.

That's a 100% "Are you fucking serious? We talked about this."
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I know. have you talked to mom lately? :)

On a side note, I checked out your story list. Damn girl, you live in rarified air. I'm humbled...
 
I’d do a threesome with Leia and Marian. Also one with Rey and Jinn Erso. Or one and one with any of them, given the chance.
 
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