The future is dense, walkable cities.

[RandyRebecca]

capitalism just needs to catch up.

LOL

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I agree about the trains and buses, but do people who live in big cities realize how alarmed people in suburbs and rural areas get when they hear talk of getting rid of cars? In the big cities, all the stuff that matters isn't that far away and there's always good transport. It's a very different story in rural areas where there can be very little for miles. Large parts of America you couldn't survive without a car.

There should be a huge nationalized, federal drive for public railways across the whole country. Only when that sort of railway travel becomes big, especially in smaller cities, towns, suburbs and rural areas (not just the big cities), can there really be serious talk of getting rid of cars.

Cars are fine for moving people around in rural areas. We just need to keep them out of cities where they cause nothing but trouble.

 

[ll74]

The interesting part is most of these fires start either while being charged or while just driving down the road, not from accidents.

If you look solely at numbers right now it appears less. But since the number of EVs are highly outnumbered by ICEs of course ICE incidents will outnumber EV incidents. It remains to be scene if the battery technology will improve enough to make these battery fires a thing of the past.

You still didn't answer the questions

 

[coati]

The R&D will be moving in new directions when the government can't subsidize anything. Without subsidy dumpsters, what actually works will be more apparent as the rest falls away.

The holy-and-invisible-hand of the free market is focused on 3rd quarter profits, not on "what actually works" in the long term. And, there will always be lobbyists clamoring for subsidies.

Goverment has an important role in considering future generations by reducing greenhouse gas pollution and by investing in R&D that supports this objective.

 

[Chernosoth]

The holy-and-invisible-hand of the free market is focused on 3rd quarter profits, not on "what actually works" in the long term. And, there will always be lobbyists clamoring for subsidies.

Goverment has an important role in considering future generations by reducing greenhouse gas pollution and by investing in R&D that supports this objective.

Until energy scarcity wipes out the big corporations.

The R&D that can still be done on a much smaller energy budget, without the gravy train, may draw a different crowd and be more local. Practical solutions may come from hobbyists working in their basements. A city council or similar unit of local government could decide to help R&D for something that works in their community. That help could be money or the mayor bringing food and washing laundry for a busy small town hobbyist.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I'm all for herding people into the cities. Means less retards wandering around in my woods.

 

[coati]

The hobbyist scene is already active at the local level, and will increase in intensity as more consumers recognize that they are getting screwed by energy monopolies.

The problem is at the systemic level of grid-dependent industries and high-density consumer populations. Right now, stupid mistakes are being made at the higher level of grid design, because the grid design decisions are being made by private corporations chasing dollars in the most inflated energy markets. This will result less energy resiliency in some states and greater greenhouse gas emissions overall.

R&D, as well as regulation, needs to take place at the grid design level.

 

[coati]

I'm all for herding people into the cities. Means less retards wandering around in my woods.

^^^The inference is that you will be moving to the city.

 

[Comshaw]

Yes. As the survey indicates, bad experiences are causing former riders to feel unsafe. Funny how that works. Here’s how one former rider explains it:

Why even BART superfans like me are falling out of love with riding Bay Area public transit​

“And the increasing prevalence of homelessness, mental health and substance abuse issues on BART has frequently made me feel unsafe. One night, my train ground to a halt for nearly an hour as medical workers and police tried to help a person in crisis who had intentionally entered the tracks.

Car suburbs were a failed experiment from the last century. Forcing people to drive everywhere was great for the oil and car industries, but private cars turned out to be an ecological disaster, not to mention the fact that many American cities were gutted to build car infrastructure. Entire neighborhoods were razed to build highways and parking lots.

The way forward is to redirect public spending on car infrastructure to buses and trains. Convert lanes that are currently used for on-street parking into dedicated bus and bike routes. Bring back streetcars. Impose heavy penalties on careless drivers who kill pedestrians.

It will take decades to undo the damage that the private car has done to American cities, but European and Japanese cities can be used as models for how we can get rid of traffic and make our cities easier to get around in.

Like this?




Comshaw

 

[Bray123]

Anybody would think that no-one has ever jumped from a bridge onto a road, or gone to play in the traffic ever.

 

[AlexBailey]

The hobbyist scene is already active at the local level, and will increase in intensity as more consumers recognize that they are getting screwed by energy monopolies.

The problem is at the systemic level of grid-dependent industries and high-density consumer populations. Right now, stupid mistakes are being made at the higher level of grid design, because the grid design decisions are being made by private corporations chasing dollars in the most inflated energy markets. This will result less energy resiliency in some states and greater greenhouse gas emissions overall.

R&D, as well as regulation, needs to take place at the grid design level.

I just finished reading PG&E’s new general plan. Pacific Gas and Electric is California’s largest utility and one of the largest utilities in the nation.

They project a 70% increase in electrical loads over the next twenty years, mostly due to EVs and they are soliciting R&D from any source to help meet the goal.

They are also desperately trying to repair their public image while increasing grid stability and safety, part of which is creating micro-grids within their distribution and production networks which will focus on infrastructure that will be localized and able to respond to fire danger more effectively.

It’s a huge undertaking but there is a plan for how to meet the safety requirements and power demands of the future. It’s not some nebulous future fantasy, it’s real and in the works.

There is a lot of potential for new technologies and businesses and those businesses who want to keep looking back to the days of petrol will be left behind as they invest in lobbying politicians on their conservative agenda instead of finding new solutions.

 

[coati]

I just finished reading PG&E’s new general plan. Pacific Gas and Electric is California’s largest utility and one of the largest utilities in the nation.

They project a 70% increase in electrical loads over the next twenty years, mostly due to EVs and they are soliciting R&D from any source to help meet the goal.

They are also desperately trying to repair their public image while increasing grid stability and safety, part of which is creating micro-grids within their distribution and production networks which will focus on infrastructure that will be localized and able to respond to fire danger more effectively.

It’s a huge undertaking but there is a plan for how to meet the safety requirements and power demands of the future. It’s not some nebulous future fantasy, it’s real and in the works.

There is a lot of potential for new technologies and businesses and those businesses who want to keep looking back to the days of petrol will be left behind as they invest in lobbying politicians on their conservative agenda instead of finding new solutions.

You may have missed the point I was making. California does not exist as an individual entity. It is great that they are looking out for their own energy resiliency with microgrids and such, but they are causing another problem that extends beyond their boundaries. They are now planning to import huge amounts of electricity from other states, and often without regard to impacts outside of California.

When L.A. Department of Water and Power and other California utilities solicit huge amounts of electricity from out of state on new privately-held transmission lines that trash the states they pass through, that is a problem. California's high electricity rates are driving a mindless rush by the private sector to cash in, without any regard for the consumers and landscapes in other states. In some cases, no analysis has even been conducted on embedded greenhouse gas emissions in these new California-oriented transmission lines, nor of impacts on the energy resiliency of the "pass-through" states.

It is not a simple problem, and it requires system analysis at the national grid level, not just the individual state level.

 

[jaF0]

Pathetic Gripes and Excuses needs to be broken up in many smaller entities.

 

[Chernosoth]

R&D, as well as regulation, needs to take place at the grid design level.

While the grid still exists. It may last a few decades longer in cities, but it won't last forever.

 

[AlexBailey]

While the grid still exists. It may last a few decades longer in cities, but it won't last forever.

Please explain this idea in more detail.

 

[Lazaran]

Please explain this idea in more detail.

JFC, No.

Not more detail.

 

[AlexBailey]

You may have missed the point I was making. California does not exist as an individual entity. It is great that they are looking out for their own energy resiliency with microgrids and such, but they are causing another problem that extends beyond their boundaries. They are now planning to import huge amounts of electricity from other states, and often without regard to impacts outside of California.

When L.A. Department of Water and Power and other California utilities solicit huge amounts of electricity from out of state on new privately-held transmission lines that trash the states they pass through, that is a problem. California's high electricity rates are driving a mindless rush by the private sector to cash in, without any regard for the consumers and landscapes in other states. In some cases, no analysis has even been conducted on embedded greenhouse gas emissions in these new California-oriented transmission lines, nor of impacts on the energy resiliency of the "pass-through" states.

It is not a simple problem, and it requires system analysis at the national grid level, not just the individual state level.

Other parts of PG&E’s plan are carbon neutrality, large scale localized storage, smart grid management with consumer end interaction.

One of the least utilized ready solutions is thermal energy storage for end users. Heating and cooling systems can be designed to use power when it’s available then store the heat (or cooling) in thermal mass built into the structure.

Also the energy storage in plugged in Electric vehicles can be used to help manage the grid during times of peak demand.

The utilities will probably offer discounted prices for customers who opt to allow the utility to use a portion of their storage or to manage when energy can be drawn for heating and cooling.

It’s a widely known thing that investing first in efficiency is more cost effective than investing in more production.

 

[Dribble]

Don't feel like starting a new thread...but I find environmentalists using spray paint hypocritical...kinda like when they use super glue...like that stuff is healthy for the environment

https://www.dw.com/en/climate-activists-spray-brandenburg-gate-orange/a-66837871

 

[coati]

Other parts of PG&E’s plan are carbon neutrality, large scale localized storage, smart grid management with consumer end interaction.

OK, so you bought PG&E's latest batch of PR.

That still does not respond to my point about high-priced urban electricity markets trashing pass-through states to support urban growth.

I don't believe that the holy hand of the free market is going to solve the climate crisis, no matter how they greenwash their PR campaigns.

 

[Chernosoth]

Please explain this idea in more detail.

Fossil fuels are used to build and maintain the grid. The easy low energy mining has been done, so extracting minerals from less accessible places will cost more energy. And then there's trying to make advanced electronic parts with the smaller amounts of renewable energy. After a storm knocks down some wires, repair crews arriving on horse drawn wagons with hand tools won't have the same repair speed of today's crews with trucks and power tools. Most of the nation's grid is old and barely maintained now.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Car are fine for moving people around in rural areas. We just need to keep them out of cities where they cause nothing but trouble.

Cars cause nothing but trouble in the city? Really? Maybe you should try to ban them in cities then because that has worked so well with drugs and guns.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Cars cause nothing but trouble in the city? Really? Maybe you should try to ban them in cities then because that has worked so well with drugs and guns.

Not ban them. Just redesign streets to prioritize other modes of transit. Convert car lanes into bus and bike lanes. Widen the sidewalks. Eliminate free public parking.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Cars cause nothing but trouble in the city? Really? Maybe you should try to ban them in cities then because that has worked so well with drugs and guns.

LOL - though, it is kind of hard to slip a Toyota into your jacket pocket.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Capitalism isn't going anywhere, so the nature of the beast will continue in a greener future. The life or death of the concept of 15 minute city is going to depend entirely on the invisible hand of capitalism. It's going to depend on millions of people making the decision that their reliance on personal automobiles (gas or EV) has a higher cost to benefit ratio than electing to walk or use public transportation. At the macro level, people have mobility and if they prefer their car to the 15 minute city, they'll just relocate. The challenge to those advocating the 15 minute city is to create such a city so that the average person says "yeah, that is exactly where I want to live and thrive".

 

[Paul_Chance]

Oh, and micro-grids won't make the grid go away. The micro-grid is all about giving more finite point control over the distribution of electricity, not about making the macro-grid go away. It gives the energy companies more control, not less control. Long live the micro-grid.