Are bullet point character descriptions bad, and if so, why?

[Canteloupe]

Hi, beginner writer here. Several of the guides in the Writer's Resources mention that it's bad to list character descriptors "like a police report," which I agree with if it's done inside the story. What about if you list the characters and basic info about them bullet point style before the story begins, like below:

Characters:
Greg - Age: 27, Height: 5'11'', Weight: 170, Hair Color: Brown, Eye Color: Brown, Occupation: Electrician, Hobbies: Golf, Baking
Milly - Age: 30, Height: 5'8'', Weight 140, Hair Color: Black, Eye Color: Green, Occupation: Pharmacist, Hobbies: Board Games, Writing
etc.

Is this bad, if so, why? I know it's better to show vs tell, but doing this allows you to provide details that otherwise would be clunky to include in the body of the story. If I'm writing a story about Greg and Milly meeting in a grocery store and they end up banging in Milly's Jeep in the parking lot, there isn't really any room in the story to mention their occupations or hobbies or hometowns without it seeming shoe-horned in, though the reader still might appreciate knowing. I think writing character descriptions in 1st person POV is especially hard, since the narration can only include things that character would realistically be thinking in the given scenario. Let me know if I'm wrong, but doing the descriptions before the story just seems like a good way of providing info without clunking up the story.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's shockingly bad. You're writing a story, not a report or an Ikea assembly instruction kit. You don't need to do that - if a description or background is necessary to the story (which it very often isn't, ever), roll it out when you need, but not before. Stories don't need info dumps - just get on with the story from the point they meet, and let it unfold naturally.

Look at it this way - when you see someone across the room at a party, for the first time, and decide to go have a chat, do they or you know anything about the other? No, you don't. A story is exactly the same. You and you readers are all strangers, and you get to know each other over the course of the story. That's why it's a story, being told.

 

[Canteloupe]

Look at it this way - when you see someone across the room at a party, for the first time, and decide to go have a chat, do they or you know anything about the other? No, you don't.

Isn't that just a limitation of meeting someone at a party though? If it was possible to know more about that person across the room before you talk to them, wouldn't you want to know? If you were to meet this person through a dating app rather than at a party, you would know the basic details before initiating the conversation.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Th secret is to reveal the information throughout the story... Filter it, keep it to a minimum... With personal descriptions, less is more.
Try to steer clear of huge info dumps...
In 1st person, it's easy... The only person it's hard to describe is yourself...

Cagivagurl

 

[Altissimus]

...or an Ikea assembly instruction kit...

Unless the reader is being asked to construct the characters themselves, in which case an idea of what they look like when finished is helpful. Then it's just the parts you have left over which should concern...

 

[SimonDoom]

I think you have it exactly backward. This is the clunkiest way possible to do it. If I began reading a story and it started this way I would immediately have a bad impression.

Consider your example of two people meeting. There's absolutely no need whatsoever to reveal any more information about a character than is necessary to propel the narrative at that point. Why do readers need to know their hobbies at the outset?

If the story is told from Greg's point of view, then you might reveal one thing about Greg, and then when he meets Milly reveal things that he notices about her, like her eyes or figure. Then if they have a conversation they might reveal what they do. Hobbies likely would come later.

 

[Bamagan]

Hi, beginner writer here. Several of the guides in the Writer's Resources mention that it's bad to list character descriptors "like a police report," which I agree with if it's done inside the story. What about if you list the characters and basic info about them bullet point style before the story begins, like below:

Characters:
Greg - Age: 27, Height: 5'11'', Weight: 170, Hair Color: Brown, Eye Color: Brown, Occupation: Electrician, Hobbies: Golf, Baking
Milly - Age: 30, Height: 5'8'', Weight 140, Hair Color: Black, Eye Color: Green, Occupation: Pharmacist, Hobbies: Board Games, Writing
etc.

Is this bad, if so, why? I know it's better to show vs tell, but doing this allows you to provide details that otherwise would be clunky to include in the body of the story. If I'm writing a story about Greg and Milly meeting in a grocery store and they end up banging in Milly's Jeep in the parking lot, there isn't really any room in the story to mention their occupations or hobbies or hometowns without it seeming shoe-horned in, though the reader still might appreciate knowing. I think writing character descriptions in 1st person POV is especially hard, since the narration can only include things that character would realistically be thinking in the given scenario. Let me know if I'm wrong, but doing the descriptions before the story just seems like a good way of providing info without clunking up the story.

If providing that information in the text is clunky, then providing it in that way is like the final form of clunky, when it has mastered its clunkiness and transformed into something positively unwieldy, like sword-chucks.
I would suggest that if your story is too short to find subtle ways of providing the information, like having a character's internal monologue remark on the shade of green eye or the style of brown hair, or the guy is driving a truck advertising his electrician career, then the information is not likely to be of benefit anyway. And if it's reasonably long, you should have plenty of time to find ways to work it in when needed. But if the characters themselves don't or can't notice those things about each other, why would the reader care what they do for a living or what their hobbies are?
Some readers will not care, but many will see it as a sign of either impatience or inexperience on the part of the author and may decide to look for something else.

 

[Bamagan]

Unless the reader is being asked to construct the characters themselves, in which case an idea of what they look like when finished is helpful. Then it's just the parts you have left over which should concern...

I always wind up with a pile of unused organs when I try that.

 

[Altissimus]

...provide details that otherwise would be clunky to include in the body of the story....

If the details aren't needed for the story, there's no reason to include them. If Greg and Milly meet in a grocery store and have a quickie in the back of Milly's jeep, why would the reader care what Greg scored in his last quarterly employment review?

I think writing character descriptions in 1st person POV is especially hard, since the narration can only include things that character would realistically be thinking in the given scenario. Let me know if I'm wrong, but doing the descriptions before the story just seems like a good way of providing info without clunking up the story.

May I suggest you select some stories from your category of interest - specifically, stories that have been written sufficiently well to score over 4.5 and have that red 'H' against them - and find some examples of how other people have addressed this? There's millions of stories on Lit. It might help you to read a few before you write, to get some tips for your own works.

 

[Altissimus]

I always wind up with a pile of unused organs when I try that.

No one actually needs a spleen.

(Wow, this went south fast. I think some of us may have slightly dodgy minds. Ok, me. I have a slightly dodgy mind.)

 

[Bamagan]

No one actually needs a spleen.

(Wow, this went south fast. I think some of us may have slightly dodgy minds. Ok, me. I have a slightly dodgy mind.)

And why bother with a small and a large intestine. Bigger is better!

(Yeah, sorry, I'm like constitutionally incapable of staying serious for more than about 8 minutes in a stretch.)

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Hi, beginner writer here. Several of the guides in the Writer's Resources mention that it's bad to list character descriptors "like a police report," which I agree with if it's done inside the story. What about if you list the characters and basic info about them bullet point style before the story begins, like below:

Characters:
Greg - Age: 27, Height: 5'11'', Weight: 170, Hair Color: Brown, Eye Color: Brown, Occupation: Electrician, Hobbies: Golf, Baking
Milly - Age: 30, Height: 5'8'', Weight 140, Hair Color: Black, Eye Color: Green, Occupation: Pharmacist, Hobbies: Board Games, Writing
etc.

Is this bad, if so, why? I know it's better to show vs tell, but doing this allows you to provide details that otherwise would be clunky to include in the body of the story. If I'm writing a story about Greg and Milly meeting in a grocery store and they end up banging in Milly's Jeep in the parking lot, there isn't really any room in the story to mention their occupations or hobbies or hometowns without it seeming shoe-horned in, though the reader still might appreciate knowing. I think writing character descriptions in 1st person POV is especially hard, since the narration can only include things that character would realistically be thinking in the given scenario. Let me know if I'm wrong, but doing the descriptions before the story just seems like a good way of providing info without clunking up the story.

In the simplest terms, it's amateurish and lazy.

It denotes a lack of imagination and skill by the author and will turn off the majority of readers immediately.

 

[Rob_Royale]

In the simplest terms, it's amateurish and lazy.

It denotes a lack of imagination and skill by the author and will turn off the majority of readers immediately.

What he said.

 

[Canteloupe]

I would suggest that if your story is too short to find subtle ways of providing the information, like having a character's internal monologue remark on the shade of green eye or the style of brown hair, or the guy is driving a truck advertising his electrician career, then the information is not likely to be of benefit anyway. And if it's reasonably long, you should have plenty of time to find ways to work it in when needed.

I think this is the answer I was looking for. I guess the answer is don't write stories that are too short to properly flesh out the characters.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think this is the answer I was looking for. I guess the answer is don't write stories that are too short to properly flesh out the characters.

You can write short stories that capture a moment and capture a personality, with a minimum of words.

Go find the 750 Word Anthology collections for any number of excellent examples, or try these two:

A Girl on the Bus

Brooke Works at the Hardware Store

 

[Kumquatqueen]

There's absolutely no nude whatsoever to reveal any more information about a character than is necessary to propel the narrative at that point.

If, however, a nude has unexpectedly appeared in a narrative, describing them then would seem perfectly reasonable.
(Sorry Simon, couldn't resist that typo!)

 

[SimonDoom]

If, however, a nude has unexpectedly appeared in a narrative, describing them then would seem perfectly reasonable.
(Sorry Simon, couldn't resist that typo!)

Fumble fingers again. I'm going to correct it.

 

[AchtungNight]

In the simplest terms, it's amateurish and lazy.

It denotes a lack of imagination and skill by the author and will turn off the majority of readers immediately.

Probably true, but writers and readers still do it. Per my own mental process example while watching the popular 2003 teen erotic thriller film Swimfan-

Characters-
Ben- male lead, swim team star, athletic build, black hair, played by actor Jesse Bradford.
Amy- Ben’s girlfriend, slim, black hair, tanned skin, B cup I think, actress Shiri Appleby.
Madison- Ben’s psycho obsessed one night stand who really should be seducing Amy as well as Ben if she wants to calm her insanity instead of just hyper fixating on Ben and messing up her own scheme or maybe getting off her stupid fixation and finding a lover who actually likes her and having a chance at survival and a happy life, pale skin, D cup, blonde hair, actress Erika Christensen. Hmmm….

This is how I think, people. Now I need to go put these thoughts into a story if I can. Hmm.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Isn't that just a limitation of meeting someone at a party though? If it was possible to know more about that person across the room before you talk to them, wouldn't you want to know? If you were to meet this person through a dating app rather than at a party, you would know the basic details before initiating the conversation.

A dating app isn't a party and I'm not Charles Xavier. Wanting to know them before you do, isn't a thing. Life is full of limitations.

 

[alohadave]

Hi, beginner writer here. Several of the guides in the Writer's Resources mention that it's bad to list character descriptors "like a police report," which I agree with if it's done inside the story. What about if you list the characters and basic info about them bullet point style before the story begins, like below:

Characters:
Greg - Age: 27, Height: 5'11'', Weight: 170, Hair Color: Brown, Eye Color: Brown, Occupation: Electrician, Hobbies: Golf, Baking
Milly - Age: 30, Height: 5'8'', Weight 140, Hair Color: Black, Eye Color: Green, Occupation: Pharmacist, Hobbies: Board Games, Writing
etc.

Sounds like LitRPG, which is an odd genre, but people who like it seem to really like reading like that.

To me, it's like watching someone else play D&D.

 

[SimonDoom]

Isn't that just a limitation of meeting someone at a party though? If it was possible to know more about that person across the room before you talk to them, wouldn't you want to know? If you were to meet this person through a dating app rather than at a party, you would know the basic details before initiating the conversation.

This may be true, but the analogy doesn't apply to the reader. The character may want to have the information, but the story is more dramatically interesting if the reader does not have it and must follow the character as the character gains it through naturally interacting with other characters.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Hi, beginner writer here. Several of the guides in the Writer's Resources mention that it's bad to list character descriptors "like a police report," which I agree with if it's done inside the story. What about if you list the characters and basic info about them bullet point style before the story begins, like below:

Characters:
Greg - Age: 27, Height: 5'11'', Weight: 170, Hair Color: Brown, Eye Color: Brown, Occupation: Electrician, Hobbies: Golf, Baking
Milly - Age: 30, Height: 5'8'', Weight 140, Hair Color: Black, Eye Color: Green, Occupation: Pharmacist, Hobbies: Board Games, Writing
etc.

Is this bad, if so, why? I know it's better to show vs tell, but doing this allows you to provide details that otherwise would be clunky to include in the body of the story. If I'm writing a story about Greg and Milly meeting in a grocery store and they end up banging in Milly's Jeep in the parking lot, there isn't really any room in the story to mention their occupations or hobbies or hometowns without it seeming shoe-horned in, though the reader still might appreciate knowing. I think writing character descriptions in 1st person POV is especially hard, since the narration can only include things that character would realistically be thinking in the given scenario. Let me know if I'm wrong, but doing the descriptions before the story just seems like a good way of providing info without clunking up the story.

No. Too much information can be bad. I get it, you're trying to set a image in the readers head. Ask how important is any of this, will it come up in story? Not saying you can't state hair color, just these things tend to work better, in a way, in passing, so to speak. If there's no room, then leave it out and leave it to the readers headcanon. Why reveal anything that won't be in the story in some way- organically? If it's gonna be in first person, it should be whatever the mc sees.

 

[Candy_Kane54]

I started out making sure my characters were described early in the story. As I've improved as a writer, I've been putting less and less details in my story. When I do, I just casually slip in a descriptor, maybe during a conversation or during the narrative. In my current story I don't have any descriptors more specific than "She was about my height and build ...."

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I recently wrote a story as a commission. The buyer wanted me to write a story about him and his wife in a boss/secretary role. And he wanted the story in 1st person.

So I had to include her description, more detailed than I might normally be required. So I set up this scene. Before she enters the office, she examines herself to make sure she she looks natural (she's nervous about her appearance for plot-relevant reasons).

I did it like this:

I look down at my clothes. I've tried to keep my attire as average as possible. I don't need him looking at me anymore than usual... but I can't make it appear like I'm hoping he won't pay attention. Gah! My mind is running in overdrive, excessively analyzing every tiny, miniscule detail; if I have a solitary thread out of place, I feel as if it'll be the single domino that sets off a chain of events which will somehow lead to my ruin.

I inhale deeply, and try to only see myself as he will see me. He's my boss, an infinitely professional man. When he looks at me today, what will he see?

I'm wearing a soft white, button down blouse. It clings tightly to my attractive curves, naturally accenting my large breasts in a way that looks appealing, but not ostentatious. I have left a few buttons undone as usual, and only the faintest hint of cleavage is peeking out.

The shirt flows down naturally and tucks into my navy blue skirt. It's a stylish garment, professional and comfortable; I love the way it makes my hips look so curvy and full. Together with my dark pantyhose and stylish, practical pumps, I feel like I look the part of the perfect, honest, hard working secretary.

Because that's what I am! That's all I am! I'm not dishonest! I have nothing to fear! I can't wait to see my boss!

I try to pump myself up with these internal lies, but I can almost feel them having the opposite effect. Glancing into a framed office painting next to the door, I look at my reflection in the smooth glass.

My face looks as attractive as always. I've elected to wear minimal makeup today, which is not unusual for me. My plump lips don't require much more than a bit of lip gloss in order to stand out, and my subtle mascara and eyeliner only magnify the beauty of my deep brown eyes. I fluff my brunette locks just a bit. I need to look as natural as possible...

Some might argue that this isn't the most elegant way to do it, but at least the customer was happy

(But I guarantee he would have been pissed if I'd had bullet points descriptions in the Forward)

 

[Voboy]

Nah, OP. Don't do that. If you can't write those details into the story in an engaging way, then you're not really "writing."

"Shockingly bad," "amateurish," and "lazy" sound about right.