Writer's block or Catholic guilt?

[EmilyMiller]

That's been a pretty common trend in the last quarter-century, with parochial schools closing for want of financial support from the congregations. I've heard that Catholic schools have been hit particularly hard since much of their teaching staff were recruited from monks and nuns, who seem to be an endangered species these days.

We only had two nuns. The rest lay. The diocese had a problem in another parish and I don’t know how much they had to pay, as opposed to the central Church.

Em

 

[Voboy]

The meme is woefully misapplied. Anyone who has a problem with Catholic teaching falls back on that instead of bringing up actual theological discussion of their differences with the Catechism.

I suspect that people who are irate about child sex abuse don't actually give a rat's ass about obscure points of theology, actually, though that might just be my perception. As an educated outsider, I have issues with Maryolatry and martyrology, but "discussion" of those issues pales by comparison with sex abuse. So in bringing up that abuse, believe me, I'm not "falling back" from anything.

And no, I am not a Catholic but I have studied the problem in depth. I also studied the issues with child abuse in schools, which is being ignored. I dropped education as a major in college because of issues like that
The difference here is that one institution is working very hard to stop the problem and is getting mercilessly harangued over sins of the past
The other institution is doing little to nothing about it (my education professor simply said "Don't Do it. It's wrong") and people shrug their shoulders

I wasn't going to bring this up (it's a derail), but I don't think the two are the same. The Catholic church is an institution; schools are not. There's no pope of schools, promulgating infallible policy to which all schools are expected to adhere, and there is no central school hierarchy covering up abuse and moving teachers around from school to school throughout the world.

So, while I too bemoan the problem of abuse in schools, I can't see how it relates to abuse within the Catholic church. The one is entirely decentralized, the other entirely centralized.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think it’s more fun to talk about Catholic school uniforms .

Em

 

[MrPixel]

I think it’s more fun to talk about Catholic school uniforms .

Especially when they'd roll the waistbands.
I know nothing, I see nothing.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Especially when they'd roll the waistbands.
I know nothing, I see nothing.

I’d never do such a thing!

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

What about the US Department of Education? Is that not an institution overseeing public schools? What about each school in general overseeing itself, and its district? I have heard of many teachers losing their jobs over sex issues. Not naming names but it has happened. Trust me, we do not need to take this discussion further. Thank you.

 

[SimonDoom]

In a recent thread, I said the thing I am most grateful for is having great parents. I stand by that.

But high on the list behind that is my gratitude for not having been raised religious, and not taking religious doctrines seriously.

I have never once in my life, for one millisecond, feared hell. The idea of hell seems ridiculous to me. It always has.

There are all sorts of other ways in which I'm a messed up, complicated, conflicted person, and Lord knows my personality traits get in the way of writing as they do with many things I want to do, but religious guilt is one cross I don't have to bear, and praise the Lord for that!

 

[ElectricBlue]

In a recent thread, I said the thing I am most grateful for is having great parents. I stand by that.

But high on the list behind that is my gratitude for not having been raised religious, and not taking religious doctrines seriously.

I have never once in my life, for one millisecond, feared hell. The idea of hell seems ridiculous to me. It always has.

There are all sorts of other ways in which I'm a messed up, complicated, conflicted person, and Lord knows my personality traits get in the way of writing as they do with many things I want to do, but religious guilt is one cross I don't have to bear, and praise the Lord for that!

Didn't expect such a roll of the rosaries, Simon! Good man!

Now is the right time to roll out the "Proof of hell" term paper, but I'm a lazy bastard and couldn't be bothered finding it. I think you know it; those that don't, Google is your friend. It'll turn up on the first page of a search.

 

[AchtungNight]

I will add this to the above. I have had to bear religious guilt thx to fanatics who have judged me unfairly. Thx to all the people who have helped me overcome it- they include but are not limited to dedicated spiritual agnostics within my own family (I’m one of these), liberal followers of many religions, and lapsed religious celebrities. The most prominent of the latter is probably the creator of Dungeons & Dragons.

 

[Voboy]

What about the US Department of Education? Is that not an institution overseeing public schools? What about each school in general overseeing itself, and its district? I have heard of many teachers losing their jobs over sex issues. Not naming names but it has happened. Trust me, we do not need to take this discussion further. Thank you.

No, individual school systems in the US control hiring, firing, and teacher assignment. The US has over 13,000 different districts, meaning 13,000 different hierarchies, each with its own separate policies, procedures, biases, investigative energy, and predilection for removing abusive teachers. The State Dept of Ed has nothing to do with any of that, and the Feds are even further removed.

Certainly some teachers lose their jobs over sex, and others don't. But there's no uniform policy, nation- or world-wide, like there is with the Catholic Church, and there certainly aren't centralized assignments of teachers (like there are with Catholic clergy).

To put it bluntly, the Catholic Church was in a position to maintain a list, or database, of every abusive priest on the planet, and the dioceses to which they belonged (or to which they could be moved). There is nothing even remotely similar for teachers.

 

[AchtungNight]

Maybe there should be. Just saying.

 

[Voboy]

Maybe there should be. Just saying.

Maybe. But there isn't. That's why the comparison makes no sense to me.

 

[alohadave]

I have heard of many teachers losing their jobs over sex issues.

The difference being that the teacher in question isn't quietly transferred to a different school district multiple times. The power dynamic may be the same, but the consequences and public awareness is significantly different.

 

[AchtungNight]

Maybe. But there isn't. That's why the comparison makes no sense to me.

The media steps in sometimes. Ask my old friend Mary Kay. Not saying her last name. I’m already skirting my ethics enough here. Also ask my old friend Laura Hale.

 

[Voboy]

The difference being that the teacher in question isn't quietly transferred to a different school district multiple times. The power dynamic may be the same, but the consequences and public awareness is significantly different.

This.

Though, more often than not, they are fired. Quietly, alas. There is a parallel in the wish to avoid negative publicity, but any organization will try to do that.

 

[Trionyx]

I’d never do such a thing!

Em

Liar, and you’ll go straight to hell for it. Now say forty Hail Marys and report to Sister Marygrace for your punishment.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Liar, and you’ll go straight to hell for it. Now say forty Hail Marys and report to Sister Marygrace for your punishment.

I can double (triple?) down on that. How about one FMC in Catholic school uniform, another in South Korean school uniform, both pregnant (one real, one faux) and being caned? Oh and the Principal is an ogre (literally, not figuratively), who is also a lawyer.

I never claimed to not be a little odd .

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

I can double (triple?) down on that. How about one FMC in Catholic school uniform, another in South Korean school uniform, both pregnant (one real, one faux) and being caned? Oh and the Principal is an ogre (who is also a lawyer).

I never claimed to not be a little odd .

Em

Too complex. You lost me after the second FMC.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Too complex. You lost me after the second FMC.

I like complex .

And it makes perfect sense in-universe.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I like complex .

And it makes perfect sense in-universe.

Em

Indeed it’s a pivotal scene in the story.

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

Ok. If that’s what you want. But I’ll take the two FMCs with the uniforms (they’ll come off soon enough anyway) and leave the rest.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Ok. If that’s what you want. But I’ll take the two FMCs with the uniforms (they’ll come off soon enough anyway) and leave the rest.

You’re no fun.

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

You’re no fun.

Em

Your FMCs will hopefully disagree.

 

[stickygirl]

Google child sex abuse in catholic institutions and you’ll be cured (I hope).
Timely that sinead O’Connor recognised the cruelty and duplicity of the Catholic Church which was largely complicit with child abuse and she’s sadly lost to us. Write what you like - nothing could approach the church’s crimes

 

[AchtungNight]

Google child sex abuse in catholic institutions and you’ll be cured (I hope).
Timely that sinead O’Connor recognised the cruelty and duplicity of the Catholic Church which was largely complicit with child abuse and she’s sadly lost to us. Write what you like - nothing could approach the church’s crimes

Despite the sins of others, I can forgive and accept a few Catholics as friends. If they can prove to me they were not participants in the bad behavior.