How much back story and character description

[MrPixel]

FWIW... given the six-month gap since the previous installment of my multi-chapter story, I've written a "re-introduction" preface to refresh the premise and cast of characters. For new readers it serves as a brief backstory and descriptions of the players.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I find this sort of thing is a good way, when writing in FP, to give the reader an idea of what kind of person the narrator is.

A narrator who's a surgeon is going to use different words and be interested in different things than a narrator who's (let's say) a gardener. Both will notice different things about the events they're describing. That kind of thing lends verisimilitude.

To some extent, of course.

I think however that it's a question of degree. There's a difference between a surgeon's phrasing and including detailed memories of dissecting a cadaver in Anatomy class.

I have a series in which the protagonist was long ago awarded a medal for gallantry whilst in the Air Force. It's a part of her, a useful detail contributing to her character, but I have only alluded to it twice. Once was a very brief description of her office, which included that fact that, next to her framed licence on the wall was a photo of a general pinning a medal on her - nothing more. The second was after she'd been in danger and was reacting with the shakes. There, she mentioned that it was like the time she'd run into a burning airplane - 'do what's needed and get the shakes after' - again, no more detail.

I might someday write a prequel or something, with her being 19 years old and the frypan heat on the airbase and the tinny smell of white sand and the sound of the incoming rocket and the thanks she got for carrying somebody out of the flames and, and, and... Right now, none of that is necessary. The two quick hints were quite sufficient and more would have been counterproductive.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Ha! Yes. Same goes for military equipment, kung fu techniques, workout equipment at the gym, expensive sets of golf clubs, and so on, etc.

Precisely - and it need not be just 'guy stuff'. I included in my first mention of a MFC an entire paragraph describing her purse. In that case, it helped set her character - wealthy, with good taste and so forth. I didn't mention the other woman's purse because that would have contributed nothing.

 

[Euphony]

Precisely - and it need not be just 'guy stuff'. I included in my first mention of a MFC an entire paragraph describing her purse. In that case, it helped set her character - wealthy, with good taste and so forth. I didn't mention the other woman's purse because that would have contributed nothing.

It's a tightrope.

Balancing the technicals versus including only enough technicals that their conspicuousness does the heavy lifting is always a mental challenge.

I try my darnedest to put myself in the layman's position and use details to show deliberateness of what's being covered rather than rely on context.

The sin so easy to slip into is using knowledge/detail to "teach" the context of the thing on the false assumption it'll interest the reader b/c that's how it came to interest you.

Some authors overdo it b/c it makes them look researched and/or more literary.

I don't need a crash course in Audubon's birding b/c a character takes binoculars out into nature sometimes.

Maybe it's me (or crazy) but I view detailing as having weight of context (which you must impart if readers aren't assumed to know it) but also an overall weight of description given on the page (context can be foggier but still land the point)

I try to lean on the reader friendlier latter to avoid my penchant for over explaining and unintentionally looking "I am very smart."

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think when you're looking at the question of character backstory in the format of a short story, the best way to approach it is similar to the approach to description.

If it is necessary for the reader to have a piece of information to understand or relate to the characters motivations or actions in the events being told in the short story, then include it. If it's not, then it's extraneous.

The same holds true for character description. If it is necessary to the events included in the short story, then include it. If it's not, edit it out. There is some degree of reader and author preference there.

I tend toward minimal physical description, just enough to draw an outline of the character, but vague enough that the reader can complete the drawing of the character in their own minds eye, so the characters have a certain universality.

 

[MetaBob]

One example on a personal basis are those writers (mainly men, I suspect) who include in the story a detailed description of their car - the precise paint colour, the engine size and carburetor make, the type of tires, interior decoration and so forth. Maybe that woos those readers who are serious sports car fans, but I myself find it distracting - unless it leads into the main plot, of course.

The one time I included a somewhat detailed description of a car (in The Dog Whisperer, linked below), it was the vintage pickup truck my MMC was driving. He did so when the FMC asked, reluctantly because he thought she wouldn't be interested. She liked him, was curious what sort of man he was, and wanted to prompt him for conversation. Knowing that some men take an interest in cars, especially old cars ...

She waited.
"It's a 1971 Chevy," I said. "Two-wheel drive."
"Details, please."
"It was Chevrolet's standard 1971 light-duty pickup, with fancy trim. I'm not really a truck person either, but I have enough background to give more detail if you were, the way that woman might've been."
"Try me."
I looked into her eyes, which were intent on mine. She seemed interested, if not so much in the truck as in how I might describe it. I searched for the right words.
"It's a C-30 one-ton, a C/K with the "C" meaning two-wheel drive. A 350 V-8. Custom Deluxe trim, sky blue paint with white side panels and a 3-speed automatic transmission. A big chrome toolbox in the open bed."
She smiled, shaking her head a little. "Do you like it?"
"It was a regular-sized truck for its time, but these days it seems small, maybe even cute. I can see how a female truck person might like it."
"Is it practical?"
I laughed. "Not at all, it's a total gas hog and doesn't have A/C, which matters more here than in Boulder, but I like that some might find it desirable. It can be a conversation-starter."
She laughed, too. "Like now."
"Exactly."
She leaned back in her chair, gazing across the canyon. "You're easy to talk with."

 

[MelissaBaby]

It's a tightrope.

Balancing the technicals versus including only enough technicals that their conspicuousness does the heavy lifting is always a mental challenge.

I try my darnedest to put myself in the layman's position and use details to show deliberateness of what's being covered rather than rely on context.

The sin so easy to slip into is using knowledge/detail to "teach" the context of the thing on the false assumption it'll interest the reader b/c that's how it came to interest you.

Some authors overdo it b/c it makes them look researched and/or more literary.

I don't need a crash course in Audubon's birding b/c a character takes binoculars out into nature sometimes.

Maybe it's me (or crazy) but I view detailing as having weight of context (which you must impart if readers aren't assumed to know it) but also an overall weight of description given on the page (context can be foggier but still land the point)

I try to lean on the reader friendlier latter to avoid my penchant for over explaining and unintentionally looking "I am very smart."

I don't know much about boats, and my main male character in Mary and Alvin owned a boat yard. There are a lot of scenes set on his sailboat, and I admit, it's dimensions and details shifted as needed. I took a fair amount of criticism for that.

You know what else I took? 36 big fat red H's and two Readers Choice awards for the series.

 

[tenyari]

So I'm working on m first story for Lit, and have so many questions. But the one I'm thinking about right now is how much backstory and character description is needed?

As much as is needed.

This varies a LOT by the nature of your story.

If you're telling a short stroke story meant to be read with one hand then your characters might not even need names. If you're telling a massive multi chapter personal drama about the later life of some characters who are resolving major past issues then you're going to need to deep dive into those things.

But even if you need a massive amount of backstory and character do not front load it too much.

Don't spend the first 40 minutes of your 90 minute movie telling the story of how you arrived in the current scene (people kept telling to watch the Dungeons and Dragons movie because they liked it - but come on... I finally did watch it and that's what I got for one character, while the others were barely even there - not to mention the story literally has a Jesus-like "magical black man" come in midway through and help the white hero understand that he really is a hero... which they only save by adding a second magical black man that the white hero saves by making this magical black man realize he is also a hero).

- So. DO NOT spend so much time on the backstory that you don't leave enough space in your story for the actual story. Unless you story IS a backstory. My new series about Naked Aliens living among us needed a massive amount of back fill. So I split that into it's own story wrapped around the events of the Alien arrival. I fully expected people to not want to read that and even considering publishing it after some other stories had come out. Weirdly it's been very popular.

So let me think here...

What I did with that backfill / backstory tale was tell the backstory through dialogue and interaction between the humans and the aliens, having the aliens reveal bits of pieces of how they got there. I also hid some of that from the character's themselves. As in my aliens were not fully aware of their own story. This let me turn reveals into plot points, which is something I am still getting away with in later chapters.

Alien's super AI does something.
Alien character: "wait what? That's not supposed to be the case."
Alien super AI: "I had to hide that from you for your own good until now."
Writer: Gee this is a handy way to slip things in or even fix mistakes.

That trick in another genre is just - turn your backstory into parts of the current story. Not a wall of text that scrolls by before the movie opens while dramatic music plays. You can't hire the same orchestra as Lucas did while readers read the first 100 pages of your story, so that trick won't work for you.

But you can have a character explain 'back in my day... stuff,' after setting up a scene where that helps the current story moves forward. And a good trick, again, is to limit the reveal. That keeps the reader wanting more, and it lets you fix or retcon mistakes down the road.

Character development works the same way. Reveal as you need it. Limit how much you reveal. That keeps the reader wanting more, and lets you make edits down the road. This is true for both personality and description.

In a sex story - you're probably going to want to describe some features of the characters. Don't go into too much detail. Leave a lot of space for readers to fill in with their own imagination. Especially in a sex story - because you want the reading filling in a version of their own fantasy sex partner and not yours.

 

[Euphony]

I don't know much about boats, and my main male character in Mary and Alvin owned a boat yard. There are a lot of scenes set on his sailboat, and I admit, it's dimensions and details shifted as needed. I took a fair amount of criticism for that.

You know what else I took? 36 big fat red H's and two Readers Choice awards for the series.

The real fun is writing females more adept in a "male" field than their peers.

Accusations of try hard author, defeminization, or, my sexist favorite pure impossibility, always make for a fun reception.

Then they aim at the man who could somehow love her.

I know the logic of why these commenters exist but I will never understand how they aren't bored to tears with tropey clones.

 

[KimGordon67]

Naming genitals
So I had an admittedly very quick check to see if there's a thread about this, but couldn't immediately see one ... the words used to name genitals. I guess especially the genitals of (mostly cis) women - penises are kind of easier. Is it just me, or does this seem to be a bit of an issue, because Jesus H Christ, have I seen some questionable terms of phrase used in my reading over the years.
In the early version of the story I'm working on, I've said 'clit' to refer to the clitoris, and I've just said 'cunt' when talking about the vagina (I don't think I've used it in more general terms), and a friend was very approving, but it doesn't seem that common ... is there a reason for that? Does it make people flinch?

And so much awesome advice and thoughts! I'm taking this all on board, and also doing a bit of focused reading ... now I'm frustrated that I don't have the time for a week or so to actually start redrafting this thing.

 

[Voboy]

Naming genitals
So I had an admittedly very quick check to see if there's a thread about this, but couldn't immediately see one ... the words used to name genitals. I guess especially the genitals of (mostly cis) women - penises are kind of easier. Is it just me, or does this seem to be a bit of an issue, because Jesus H Christ, have I seen some questionable terms of phrase used in my reading over the years.
In the early version of the story I'm working on, I've said 'clit' to refer to the clitoris, and I've just said 'cunt' when talking about the vagina (I don't think I've used it in more general terms), and a friend was very approving, but it doesn't seem that common ... is there a reason for that? Does it make people flinch?

And so much awesome advice and thoughts! I'm taking this all on board, and also doing a bit of focused reading ... now I'm frustrated that I don't have the time for a week or so to actually start redrafting this thing.

I'll use cunt, pussy, snatch, slit, vagina, and hole pretty often, depending ENTIRELY on the context and the person saying it. I have characters who'd feel uncomfortable using the C word, and others who wouldn't. The clit is usually the clit, unless I've got a character who enjoys nicknames.

Unless I'm using them in an ironic sense, I'll cordially avoid terms like petals, center, essence, flower, bud, etc. I think they're cringey.

For men? Anything goes, except "manhood." I find that eye-rollingly bad.

 

[KimGordon67]

I'll use cunt, pussy, snatch, slit, vagina, and hole pretty often, depending ENTIRELY on the context and the person saying it. I have characters who'd feel uncomfortable using the C word, and others who wouldn't. The clit is usually the clit, unless I've got a character who enjoys nicknames.

Unless I'm using them in an ironic sense, I'll cordially avoid terms like petals, center, essence, flower, bud, etc. I think they're cringey.

For men? Anything goes, except "manhood." I find that eye-rollingly bad.

I don't think I would ever say 'manhood', or 'rod'. 'Cock' really seems to do the job pretty well ...
And yeah, I find the many polite euphemisms for women's genitals a bit problematic too. I guess 'essence' I'd be OK with, in some contexts, and I suppose I can using flower metaphors working in some very specific instances too.
I am having real issues with the description of anal though ... I can't even remember what I say when I ask for it. (It's obviously been a while.)

 

[Voboy]

I don't think I would ever say 'manhood', or 'rod'. 'Cock' really seems to do the job pretty well ...
And yeah, I find the many polite euphemisms for women's genitals a bit problematic too. I guess 'essence' I'd be OK with, in some contexts, and I suppose I can using flower metaphors working in some very specific instances too.
I am having real issues with the description of anal though ... I can't even remember what I say when I ask for it. (It's obviously been a while.)

Be true to your characters.

If you've done the hard work of bringing them to life, they should tell you what terms they want to use. If you've got a brash, lusty femme fatale, she'll ask for it differently than if we're talking about a repressed young lady who's never done it before. And that's without even considering the man they're talking to, still less the relationship you've spun for them.

 

[Djmac1031]

Naming genitals

It's the eternal struggle when writing sex stories .

Use the same word too many times, it gets repetitive.

But the only way to mix it up is either descriptive metaphors or cheesy slang.

I've taken to using "her sex" as a regular part of the rotation.

Or,when possible, just drop the genital description altogether.

For instance:

"He plunged his cock into her pussy" can just as easily read "he plunged himself into her" or "he plunged into her."

"She opened to him"

"She gasped as he entered her"

You get the idea.

 

[NoTalentHack]

It's the eternal struggle when writing sex stories .

Use the same word too many times, it gets repetitive.

But the only way to mix it up is either descriptive metaphors or cheesy slang.

I've taken to using "her sex" as a regular part of the rotation.

Or,when possible, just drop the genital description altogether.

For instance:

"He plunged his cock into her pussy" can just as easily read "he plunged himself into her" or "he plunged into her."

"She opened to him"

"She gasped as he entered her"

You get the idea.

Adding on to this, another thing to be aware of is the context of the scene and also whether it’s people speaking or a narrative description. The latter can be a little louder, but if, for example, it’s supposed to be a tender love scene, language like Djmac is speaking of can be really good for describing action, whereas “cunt” in particular is very jarring for American readers in anything but a hardcore fucking context.

 

[KimGordon67]

Adding on to this, another thing to be aware of is the context of the scene and also whether it’s people speaking or a narrative description. The latter can be a little louder, but if, for example, it’s supposed to be a tender love scene, language like Djmac is speaking of can be really good for describing action, whereas “cunt” in particular is very jarring for American readers in anything but a hardcore fucking context.

Yeah, I was wondering if there were cultural differences at play there. (On that note, if I described a character as a 'tradie', would American readers understand that as a tradesperson of some sort - e.g. a plumber, electrician, etc?)

 

[Djmac1031]

on to this, another thing to be aware of is the context of the scene and also whether it’s people speaking or a narrative description

Oh absolutely agreed.

There's ways around using genital descriptions in dialog too.

"Can I suck your cock?" = "Can I suck it?"

"I want to taste your pussy" = ""I want to taste you"

"Your pussy / ass is so tight" = "You're so tight"

And so on etc etc.

I'm probably guilty of over using descriptions more than I think I am.

It's a learning curve, and even after multiple edits you can miss repetitive words and phrases.

 

[KimGordon67]

Oh absolutely agreed.

There's ways around using genital descriptions in dialog too.

"Can I suck your cock?" = "Can I suck it?"

"I want to taste your pussy" = ""I want to taste you"

"Your pussy / ass is so tight" = "You're so tight"

And so on etc etc.

I'm probably guilty of over using descriptions more than I think I am.

It's a learning curve, and even after multiple edits you can miss repetitive words and phrases.

I'm actually pretty good at picking up repetition in writing, because it happens a lot in the writing I deal with in my real life ... it's a bit of a pet peeve for me.

 

[Euphony]

It's the eternal struggle when writing sex stories .

Use the same word too many times, it gets repetitive.

But the only way to mix it up is either descriptive metaphors or cheesy slang.

I've taken to using "her sex" as a regular part of the rotation.

Or,when possible, just drop the genital description altogether.

For instance:

"He plunged his cock into her pussy" can just as easily read "he plunged himself into her" or "he plunged into her."

"She opened to him"

"She gasped as he entered her"

You get the idea.

It's a far more elegant solution to the age old problem.

These days, I consider far more than I ever did if it is actually a problem or I'm envisioning an imaginary reader who relies on bits being spelled out.

Then I remember what interests me in writing is exploring what others often don't and realizing trying to be all things makes me write shittily overall.

Trying to keep to the "find your own audience" mantra and only get into graphic description when the characters are in a headspace where more carnal behaviors and vocalization makes sense.

And just generally trust in my readers more.

 

[Djmac1031]

I'm actually pretty good at picking up repetition in writing, because it happens a lot in the writing I deal with in my real life ... it's a bit of a pet peeve for me.

For me, it's a work in progress lol.

I still catch things in stories after I publish them that make me cringe.

 

[KimGordon67]

For me, it's a work in progress lol.

I still catch things in stories after I publish them that make me cringe.

Try reading it out loud to yourself, or another person, or your cat. It's a method I often use for checking for flow and clunky (or overlong) sentences, and it helps me pick up repetition as well.

 

[ElectricBlue]

n the early version of the story I'm working on, I've said 'clit' to refer to the clitoris, and I've just said 'cunt' when talking about the vagina (I don't think I've used it in more general terms), and a friend was very approving, but it doesn't seem that common ... is there a reason for that? Does it make people flinch?

Americans seem to have more grief with a cunt than Brits or Australians. That's their issue, not yours. Write from within your own culture and don't try to accommodate cringes within others would be my advice, otherwise you'll lose your natural voice.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Be true to your characters.

If you've done the hard work of bringing them to life, they should tell you what terms they want to use. If you've got a brash, lusty femme fatale, she'll ask for it differently than if we're talking about a repressed young lady who's never done it before. And that's without even considering the man they're talking to, still less the relationship you've spun for them.

Definitely this. But I think the trickier things for new writers is what terms the narrator uses when you write in third person.

Generally, my narrative voice adheres to the vocabulary that is appropriate for the point of view character.

 

[Djmac1031]

Americans seem to have more grief with a cunt than Brits or Australians.

It's a very weird thing. I'm American. "Cunt" doesn't bother me at all.

I think more people are offended more by it's use as an insult, especially a man calling a woman a "cunt." It's obviously meant to be VERY derogatory, and sexist as well.

But as a sex term itself, I personally don't take issue with it most times.

It can be jarring and inappropriate depending on context.

I do use it myself, but sparingly.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Yeah, I was wondering if there were cultural differences at play there. (On that note, if I described a character as a 'tradie', would American readers understand that as a tradesperson of some sort - e.g. a plumber, electrician, etc?)

No, I don't think most Americans would get that.