LW Has Turned Into a Misogynist Wasteland

[NoTalentHack]

I really did! I said before that Linda's actions would make her a psychopath in RL but I accepted in the story that it was just kind of 'larger than life cheating,' and then I kind of liked her realizing she hurt her husband but I said the realization was underwhelming in a RL context. Well your ending was that real life context that made it all so clearly beyond the pale. Your ending was like, no, this isn't some cartoon, think about all of this like it's absolutely real, and tell me if it's alright then. And of course it's not.

I'll be honest, I've sometimes wondered if February Sucks wasn't at least partially George taking the piss out of Loving Wives. It was constructed in such a way that it absolutely pissed so many people off, which could be an accifent, of course. But then, in this story that didn't really need it, almost like an appendix, is this meddling old busybody with a warped sense of morality and a weird Xanatos Gambit attempt to fix the marriage that he then undermines. And the character just so happens to be named L. W. That either has to be the all-time king of Freudian slips or a jab at the readership, and I've never quite been able to decide which it is.

 

[Imstillfun]

The haters have been In LW for years. I’ve been writing there since 2016. The story would post, all the haters would rush in, 1* it, and leave nasty comments.

they'd also 1* bomb my stories in other categories. But then real readers would come in and offset the BTB crowd.

I believe the new format has ruined the category. the stories don’t stay on the front page long enough to be found. By the time the BTbers are done with it, its “out of site, out of mind.”

stories are off the front page in less than a day. No time to gather an audience.

 

[SirBurnInside]

they'd also 1* bomb my stories in other categories. But then real readers would come in and offset the BTB crowd.

Same thing happened to me, after I posted a story in LW and got all the usual hate in comments, all of a sudden every other story I'd written dropped noticeably in ratings too within the half hour or so.

Kind of sad that because you hate one particular story that an author writes, you go and 1* bomb all their others too, probably without even reading them. Unless they are real masochists of course, and read all my stories knowing they'd hate them just to vote at the end... if so, I kind of admire that dedication!

 

[Imstillfun]

Same thing happened to me, after I posted a story in LW and got all the usual hate in comments, all of a sudden every other story I'd written dropped noticeably in ratings too within the half hour or so.

Kind of sad that because you hate one particular story that an author writes, you go and 1* bomb all their others too, probably without even reading them. Unless they are real masochists of course, and read all my stories knowing they'd hate them just to vote at the end... if so, I kind of admire that dedication!

I never cared because I had enough readers to offset it, but with the new format new stories dont get enough front page time to be discovered.

 

[djrip]

Within LW, February Sucks is at the head of the pantheon, but Another Love by RichardGerald is almost as madness-inducing for a lot of folks (and I'd argue for better reason, possibly) ...

This one got me more riled up than the other two for some reason... not entirely sure why... Well you almost have to treat the first two parts and the third part separately.. And in the first two parts Karen just really pushed my buttons with lines like 'not sorry, don't feel bad, didn't do anything wrong' or something to that effect. I get (I think) that she's saying it's not wrong to love. But it's wrong to lie for 20 years! It may have bothered me more because the secret affair feels more real than the explosive MSR blatant cheating of the others. But also it was just so close to a perfect lovely polyamorous family, with long term apparently genuine love for multiple partners, and it was just so ruined by the lying, it makes it hard to enjoy it in that third part where the MC is finally included. Now that Phillippe is dead I guess.

My comment:
This is frustrating because it's a portrait of a loving, happy polyamorous extended family that I would like to see a story about, but marred by 20 years of lying and excluding. And infidelity of course. But the tragedy is the lying. For all of their lives together, she was hiding a huge part of herself, her relationship with not only her lover, but his whole family, and the fact that the MC's sons had relationships with them as well.. She enlisted one of the sons in the lying, so he was effectively more a part of Phillippe's family than his own father's, by virtue of who has his confidence. Who knew the truth and who kept it. If they had acted ethically from the beginning, let's face it, nothing probably would have happened at all. But what if they made the effort to get the husband onboard honestly from the beginning, and it was open and fair? And maybe he had to be seduced into it by Avril, but truthfully? And then he could have had 20 years of the same loving extended family, could have had an honest relationship with his son, could have enjoyed sexual freedom with Avril as Karen did with Phillippe, as an equal... That's what was stolen. A life of involvement in that as a willing participant, and not having his family hide a huge part of their lives and actions from him. Now he gets to inherit Phillippe's family all at once, the one he should have been included in as an equal participant, should have had the opportunity to agree to or reject. Or he can reject it now. He can push away a seemingly perfect life because of the past, or forgive and accept it, at the cost of some pride, and reminders of the decades of lying...

 

[Rob_Royale]

The first story I submitted would have been an LW story. It was a very cookie-cutter, neglected married older woman, who seduces her young employee, story. However, mentions of the MC getting aroused as a teen got it kicked back. After learning the rules, I completely rewrote it so that the older woman was now a widow. It's been very well received. I've been thinking of writing a new version of the original LW plot. This is a surprise as I'm generally not into cheating stories. But it's based upon a woman that I actually knew, and her husband who was a complete dick to her and everyone else. Just a mean guy. So it's a story that I feel won't leave me alone until I do it. Any advice on how to do an LW story without raising the ire of the trolls beneath their bridge?

 

[djrip]

On the other hand, if you're fiercely protective of your artistic principles, then trust your instincts and don't worry about pleasing anyone else.

I vote for this.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Beware of those; they tend to be the best, but they also come with a cost.


If you are really sensitive to ratings, my advice is to write the story in first person from the young lover's point of view. Try to portray him as a positive guy with values who resists the advances of his mature employer until he realizes how monstrous her husband is, and he tries to "save" her.

On the other hand, if you're fiercely protective of your artistic principles, then trust your instincts and don't worry about pleasing anyone else.

I would wear a 1.2 rating on an LW story as a badge of honor. IF that was as far as it went. I've heard some folks get some backlash from the trolls on their non-LW stories and THAT would bum me out. Not because I'm sensitive, but the red H does help bring in the readers. That matters to me. Why post if not for that?

The young lover's POV is, she's hot, and he's a dick. If she wants a fuck, it's a fuck she'll get. And he'll never feel a moment of guilt.

Thanks for the advice, I'm more sure now that it should get done the way I want.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I vote for this.

Me too. Thanks.

 

[NoTalentHack]

The first story I submitted would have been an LW story. It was a very cookie-cutter, neglected married older woman, who seduces her young employee, story. However, mentions of the MC getting aroused as a teen got it kicked back. After learning the rules, I completely rewrote it so that the older woman was now a widow. It's been very well received. I've been thinking of writing a new version of the original LW plot. This is a surprise as I'm generally not into cheating stories. But it's based upon a woman that I actually knew, and her husband who was a complete dick to her and everyone else. Just a mean guy. So it's a story that I feel won't leave me alone until I do it. Any advice on how to do an LW story without raising the ire of the trolls beneath their bridge?

You're probably not going to get a red H. I can't remember the last story I saw that had "good" cheating get an H. In addition to what the others have said, if you want to give the story a little bit of a better chance, have the dickish husband have cheated first; for some reason. "forsaking all others" seems to be the only vow that most folks in LW care about. Well, and "in health" now. But the "rules" for good cheating have to be that the person being cheated on "deserves" it in a very clear way, doubly so if it's a woman cheating on a man, because general misogyny.

Write what you write. Embrace the bad ratings. And, from experience, I've noticed little if any effect on my non-LW stories from people being mad at my stories that have reconciliation or even the one with cuckold themes. I have a "good" (sort of) cheating story coming out in hopefully the next week, too, so we'll se..

 

[Rob_Royale]

You're probably not going to get a red H. I can't remember the last story I saw that had "good" cheating get an H. In addition to what the others have said, if you want to give the story a little bit of a better chance, have the dickish husband have cheated first; for some reason. "forsaking all others" seems to be the only vow that most folks in LW care about. Well, and "in health" now. But the "rules" for good cheating have to be that the person being cheated on "deserves" it in a very clear way, doubly so if it's a woman cheating on a man, because general misogyny.

Write what you write. Embrace the bad ratings. And, from experience, I've noticed little if any effect on my non-LW stories from people being mad at my stories that have reconciliation or even the one with cuckold themes. I have a "good" (sort of) cheating story coming out in hopefully the next week, too, so we'll se..

Good advice. I don't think I'm going to change my story to fit into the "good cheating" category. I'm just gonna do it and let the chips fall where they may. "Damn the torpedoes!"

 

[Lifestyle66]

... But it's based upon a woman that I actually knew, and her husband who was a complete dick to her and everyone else. Just a mean guy. So it's a story that I feel won't leave me alone until I do it. Any advice on how to do an LW story without raising the ire of the trolls beneath their bridge?

As we've discussed here, there are those in the LW readership you can't avoid if you post there, and they are very much into "Monogamy-only"!!!

But if you write from the female's POV, and clearly make her husband to be an unlikeable shithead, you'll still get some comments such as "Why did you marry him?" or "Why don't you be honest and divorce him?" Even if you have her somehow dependent or afraid of her husband, they'll still come back with she's either using him, or they'll throw out ideas like going to the police and that cheating will only get her killed (rightfully in their narrow minds).

 

[mirafrida]

I recently took a one-time flyer on LW just to test the waters, and I did not come away seeing much practical upside to participating in that category (unless you like to write BTB, which I don't).

- The views were pretty typical
- The favorites was pretty typical
- The number of new followers was typical
- Many more comments, majority ugly. I didn't mind those (if you are unimaginative and angry, then your rantings really don't merit my concern). But I didn't find them particularly enjoyable either
- Many more ratings - but a whole lot of them were 1's, thus resulting in the "expected" 1.0 penalty compared to other categories. I don't mind that in itself. But I'm guessing it will depress readership of that story in the long term - which is annoying given that I put a good deal of effort into it, and would hate to think some people who *would* enjoy it will be put off.

Left me thinking it's better to try to slot stories into other categories

 

[Lifestyle66]

This one got me more riled up than the other two for some reason... not entirely sure why... Well you almost have to treat the first two parts and the third part separately.. And in the first two parts Karen just really pushed my buttons with lines like 'not sorry, don't feel bad, didn't do anything wrong' or something to that effect. I get (I think) that she's saying it's not wrong to love. But it's wrong to lie for 20 years! It may have bothered me more because the secret affair feels more real than the explosive MSR blatant cheating of the others. But also it was just so close to a perfect lovely polyamorous family, with long term apparently genuine love for multiple partners, and it was just so ruined by the lying, it makes it hard to enjoy it in that third part where the MC is finally included. Now that Phillippe is dead I guess.

My comment:
This is frustrating because it's a portrait of a loving, happy polyamorous extended family that I would like to see a story about, but marred by 20 years of lying and excluding. And infidelity of course. But the tragedy is the lying. For all of their lives together, she was hiding a huge part of herself, her relationship with not only her lover, but his whole family, and the fact that the MC's sons had relationships with them as well.. She enlisted one of the sons in the lying, so he was effectively more a part of Phillippe's family than his own father's, by virtue of who has his confidence. Who knew the truth and who kept it. If they had acted ethically from the beginning, let's face it, nothing probably would have happened at all. But what if they made the effort to get the husband onboard honestly from the beginning, and it was open and fair? And maybe he had to be seduced into it by Avril, but truthfully? And then he could have had 20 years of the same loving extended family, could have had an honest relationship with his son, could have enjoyed sexual freedom with Avril as Karen did with Phillippe, as an equal... That's what was stolen. A life of involvement in that as a willing participant, and not having his family hide a huge part of their lives and actions from him. Now he gets to inherit Phillippe's family all at once, the one he should have been included in as an equal participant, should have had the opportunity to agree to or reject. Or he can reject it now. He can push away a seemingly perfect life because of the past, or forgive and accept it, at the cost of some pride, and reminders of the decades of lying...

Based on this discussion, I'm reading the three parts of "Another Love", and I'm halfway through Part 2, where she's reminiscing about her time with Phillipe.

So far, I'm finding no polyamory or any redeeming qualities on the cheating wife OR her lover. He was a sexual predator, going after a married woman who told him "No" to begin with. He spent three weeks getting into her pants. And SHE didn't lose her libido from having two kids. She jumped her husband's cock with the thought of the handsome Phillipe's attention. So, even her delusions of "loving her husband" are darkened by her thoughts of him being clueless.

I'll continue reading through to the end. But so far, I'm disappointed, and wouldn't rate it more than a 3.

 

[RoperTrace]

Each of us has full control over whether we write or read in that category at all.

Evidently not.

 

[NoTalentHack]

This one got me more riled up than the other two for some reason... not entirely sure why... Well you almost have to treat the first two parts and the third part separately.. And in the first two parts Karen just really pushed my buttons with lines like 'not sorry, don't feel bad, didn't do anything wrong' or something to that effect. I get (I think) that she's saying it's not wrong to love. But it's wrong to lie for 20 years! It may have bothered me more because the secret affair feels more real than the explosive MSR blatant cheating of the others. But also it was just so close to a perfect lovely polyamorous family, with long term apparently genuine love for multiple partners, and it was just so ruined by the lying, it makes it hard to enjoy it in that third part where the MC is finally included. Now that Phillippe is dead I guess.

February Sucks really stuck with me because of how nightmarish it was, with all of the people gaslighting Jim, lying to him, tricking him, etc., but Another Love absolutely pissed me off. I get what the writer was going for there, paralleling his military service and then his time spent with his engineering work as "the other woman," but it fell completely flat. It's worth noting that the guy that wrote February Sucks wrote an alternate ending to Another Love because it pissed HIM off and didn't sit right. So, yeah.

 

[djrip]

So far, I'm finding no polyamory or any redeeming qualities on the cheating wife OR her lover. He was a sexual predator, going after a married woman who told him "No" to begin with. He spent three weeks getting into her pants. And SHE didn't lose her libido from having two kids. She jumped her husband's cock with the thought of the handsome Phillipe's attention. So, even her delusions of "loving her husband" are darkened by her thoughts of him being clueless.

I agree. I may have been unclear with my talk about 'so close to a good poly thing but ruined by the lying.' Nothing about it was handled ethically. The good part I was referring to was the way the wife felt included and loved by Philippe's extended family, and her kids as well. In an ethical poly situation, that would be very nice. It's superficially nice when it's offered to the MMC but by then it comes with the understanding that he was excluded from it and denied the chance to reject or agree to it for decades. It makes it all the more galling to see it ruined or at least very severely marred by the unethical aspects.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I agree. I may have been unclear with my talk about 'so close to a good poly thing but ruined by the lying.' Nothing about it was handled ethically. The good part I was referring to was the way the wife felt included and loved by Philippe's extended family, and her kids as well. In an ethical poly situation, that would be very nice. It's superficially nice when it's offered to the MMC but by then it comes with the understanding that he was excluded from it and denied the chance to reject or agree to it for decades. It makes it all the more galling to see it ruined or at least very severely marred by the unethical aspects.

I think the one point in the story in Part 3 where Phillipe's mother told the MMC she understands his anger at her son for stealing his wife was effectively underscoring how this was NOT a polyamorous relationship. She's effectively admitting her son was a sexual predator. Even Phillipe's wife was worried that he didn't love her as much as the MMC's wife, which seemed to be why she took on a young boyfriend!

The last six months of the wife claiming she loved her husband and she wanted him to give her that six months to prove it was marred by her focus on her dead lover's wife and his artwork.

The ending seems to be two women in a lesbian relationship, now plotting against the MMC to secure their future with him for some unspecified reason, and he's a "third and overly troublesome wheel" in that threesome.

So, my ultimate take on "Another Love" is I can see why it did so poorly in LW, with the end at 3.49 (low even in LW for a story posted so long ago.) It's a story of an accepting cuckhold, balancing potential loneliness against staying with the lying wife and her new lover (Note: the wife never came to tell him about her other true lover, but only did so when caught.) He's grudgingly shacking up with the two lying women (forced into it by the extended family invasion), and he should just use them for whatever sexual favors he can get from them while he can. That doesn't sit well with either the "monogamy-only crowd" OR "the sex can be fun" side.

 

[djrip]

I think the one point in the story in Part 3 where Phillipe's mother told the MMC she understands his anger at her son for stealing his wife was effectively underscoring how this was NOT a polyamorous relationship. She's effectively admitting her son was a sexual predator. Even Phillipe's wife was worried that he didn't love her as much as the MMC's wife, which seemed to be why she took on a young boyfriend!

The last six months of the wife claiming she loved her husband and she wanted him to give her that six months to prove it was marred by her focus on her dead lover's wife and his artwork.

The ending seems to be two women in a lesbian relationship, now plotting against the MMC to secure their future with him for some unspecified reason, and he's a "third and overly troublesome wheel" in that threesome.

So, my ultimate take on "Another Love" is I can see why it did so poorly in LW, with the end at 3.49 (low even in LW for a story posted so long ago.) It's a story of an accepting cuckhold, balancing potential loneliness against staying with the lying wife and her new lover (Note: the wife never came to tell him about her other true lover, but only did so when caught.) He'll grudgingly shacking up with the two lying women, and he should just use them for whatever sexual favors he can get from them while he can. That doesn't sit well with either the "monogamy-only crowd" OR "the sex can be fun" side.

I'm not sure Avril was unethical. She (and MMC) *may* have been the only truthful person in the relationship. She seems to have believed the husband knew and approved. But otherwise, yeah.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I'm not sure Avril was unethical. She (and MMC) *may* have been the only truthful person in the relationship. She seems to have believed the husband knew and approved. But otherwise, yeah.

Avril was ethical and truthful ... until she began conspiring with the MMC's wife to manipulate him, and when she and the wife became lovers. Again, neither of the women talked to him about their new feelings for each other, they merely plotted to take turns "including" him in their new relationship.

So, none of this was "polyamory", but others being dragged against their will into the sexual predator's web, and then plotting to continue dealing with the "clueless" guy who found out.

EDIT: And BTW, it was the MMC's wife and her foreign lover's extended family which cost her husband and his team their rocket engine project! Her husband lost his future due to her affairs!

 

[djrip]

The ending seems to be two women in a lesbian relationship, now plotting against the MMC to secure their future with him for some unspecified reason, and he's a "third and overly troublesome wheel" in that threesome.

And maybe I'm a sucker but I felt like the wife did really want to be with her husband. I felt like the problem was lies and infidelity, not lack of love. Or perhaps, love executed poorly, not love being absent.

 

[Lifestyle66]

And maybe I'm a sucker but I felt like the wife did really want to be with her husband. I felt like the problem was lies and infidelity, not lack of love. Or perhaps, love executed poorly, not love being absent.

Hmmm, maybe.

But she was losing her feeling for her husband after the second child, and it was the new guy, Phillipe in her life that only sparked any interest in her. So, even though the author has her trying to convince herself she loved her husband, she never loved him so much as to tell him the truth until she was caught in her deception.

It's like the repentant criminal in court, saying "Your Honor, I am sorry I did it."
No, you are sorry you got caught. If not for getting caught, the criminal would do it repeatedly.

EDIT: At least in "Liberation: for Him or Her", the wife decided to stop her affair and admit it to the clueless husband without being caught.

 

[djrip]

Avril was ethical and truthful ... until she began conspiring with the MMC's wife to manipulate him, and when she and the wife became lovers. Again, neither of the women talked to him about their new feelings for each other, they merely plotted to take turns "including" him in their new relationship.

So, none of this was "polyamory", but others being dragged against their will into the sexual predator's web, and then plotting to continue dealing with the "clueless" guy who found out.

Yes, good point. I wasn't entirely sure the lesbian relationship was new, either. But avril told him she wanted to seduce him, she told him she wanted him to forgive Karen. If we accept that they do actually want MMC, I think maybe Avril was truthful the whole time.

For me, the question was interesting to think about - stay with a loving wife, accept the love of her lover, get a fuller relationship with sons, or punish her for the very good reasons he has, and in doing so, deny himself all the good stuff too. It's a less interesting dilemma it the first choice does not entail a genuine loving relationship. I mean, let's just posit for argument that the relationships from the time of the story onward are genuine and truthful and fulfilling. Can someone get to a place where they can accept that, despite all that came before? Should they? I'm not sure. I would hate what came before SO MUCH. But would it be good, for myself, to reject everything in the present and future due to the very real and serious transgressions that came before?

 

[Lifestyle66]

Yes, good point. I wasn't entirely sure the lesbian relationship was new, either. But avril told him she wanted to seduce him, she told him she wanted him to forgive Karen. If we accept that they do actually want MMC, I think maybe Avril was truthful the whole time.

For me, the question was interesting to think about - stay with a loving wife, accept the love of her lover, get a fuller relationship with sons, or punish her for the very good reasons he has, and in doing so, deny himself all the good stuff too. It's a less interesting dilemma it the first choice does not entail a genuine loving relationship. I mean, let's just posit for argument that the relationships from the time of the story onward are genuine and truthful and fulfilling. Can someone get to a place where they can accept that, despite all that came before? Should they? I'm not sure. I would hate what came before SO MUCH. But would it be good, for myself, to reject everything in the present and future due to the very real and serious transgressions that came before?

I think I remember toward the end of the story, their lesbian relationship is new.

Avril telling him she was trying to seduce him means nothing about any feelings for him. That could as easily be as deceptive in manipulating him due to her own clueless outing of the wife's affair. She could just be out to "fix" the wife's failing marriage by fucking the husband and getting him to feel as guilty. That's why in this story as written, its ambiguous about the two women's motivations and any real feelings for the MMC.

If I had to write a logical sequel to this, it would be the two women dumping the husband, because he can't accept the ever-present Phillipe's art, as it constantly reminds him of his minor role in their lives. Add to that the whole Phillipe family shitshow cost him his career in that revolutionary engine project and sidelined his whole team! I can't see the guy with any good future. He may as well just fuck them (literally) for all they're worth until they eventually tire of him, because that's all he has left. It would be a sad ending, because I don't understand how he could see it any other way.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Any advice on how to do an LW story without raising the ire of the trolls beneath their bridge?

I second Tilan’s suggestion to write the story from the “other man’s” point of view.

I wrote 2 LW stories from the other man’s POV (Office Wife and Intervention Wife). Both have the red H. I think that POV is more fun anyway, because I’m not a fan of melodrama. Of course neither story is that BTB nonsense. In both cases the cheaters thrive.