What can underage characters see/know?

[PastMaster]

I'm talking about stories on Lit, you were the one who introduced the Lolita argument, which is simply NOT relevant for Lit.

And you're still going on about the Lit rules, and one has to wonder why they cause you so many issues. Just saying/

what you are Just saying is completely irrelevent to the original argument - but as always you repeat the same shit over and over until people lose interest in replying then go away self satisfied that you 'won' that one.

 

[ElectricBlue]

the point does have to be raised though - that post is over 10 years old - so much could have changed since then.

It's the same Laurel, and if there's one thing the pompous old timers have noticed over the years, is that she has, generally speaking, tightened up on their application, not loosened them. I think one can look at events in America over that same time frame, to understand why.

 

[PastMaster]

It's the same Laurel, and if there's one thing the pompous old timers have noticed over the years, is that she has, generally speaking, tightened up on their application, not loosened them. I think one can look at events in America over that same time frame, to understand why.

I'm not suggesting otherwise - Im just wondering if, given the way the site must have grown in the last 10 years, if she still is the only reviewer - or has she taken someone on to help or started using some kind of pattern matching software

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm not suggesting otherwise - Im just wondering if, given the way the site must have grown in the last 10 years, if she still is the only reviewer - or has she taken someone on to help or started using some kind of pattern matching software

Over the last ten years (I joined in 2014, so near enough) there's been evidence, popping up in threads like these, that strongly suggests a word-bot scan process has been introduced, which searches on key words, key phrases, combinations thereof. We then speculate that flags a human eyes look.

It is also clear, over the years, that many of these threads get started (I'm not saying this one was) by people who, when questioned a little deeper, are pushing the line. Many admit it and move on; or they think, well maybe my story integrity can be relaxed a bit, and they change something, usually very minor, and get their story published.

So the default mode, again from us long-timer pricks, is to look at these threads with one eyebrow raised. Which might seem cynical to innocent folk like yourself, but you'll get used to it; and who knows, one day you'll find your own eyebrow. The OP, in this instance, once everything unravelled (as it always does), asked an innocent question, I think, not a loaded one.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"How do we know Voboy's stories are indeed his own? Did he get help? Does he, perhaps own a dog that knows how to talk and type but only in erotic fiction? And why is he hiding said dog from the world so that we may all benefit from God's graces?"

I'm just asking questions.

Dog had damn well better be over 18.

 

[Voboy]

Dog had damn well better be over 18.

From my introductory note:

"...and all dogs in this piece are safely over the age of 18... in dog years."

I did clear the entire plot with Laurel before I went ahead with it, but mostly I was trying to square away the bestiality rule. I had a dog-on-dog fuckscene I was concerned about.

 

[PastMaster]

Over the last ten years (I joined in 2014, so near enough) there's been evidence, popping up in threads like these, that strongly suggests a word-bot scan process has been introduced, which searches on key words, key phrases, combinations thereof. We then speculate that flags a human eyes look.

It is also clear, over the years, that many of these threads get started (I'm not saying this one was) by people who, when questioned a little deeper, are pushing the line. Many admit it and move on; or they think, well maybe my story integrity can be relaxed a bit, and they change something, usually very minor, and get their story published.

So the default mode, again from us long-timer pricks, is to look at these threads with one eyebrow raised. Which might seem cynical to innocent folk like yourself, but you'll get used to it; and who knows, one day you'll find your own eyebrow. The OP, in this instance, once everything unravelled (as it always does), asked an innocent question, I think, not a loaded one.

I have come to the conclusion - that there are lit stories - and there are non lit stories - and i'm fine with that. Some stories where the reason they were refused (like hitman and the savage) is not pivotal to the story, i'll change and post here. others where the reason they were cut is pivotal to the story like timestoppers revenge (and this one had nothing to do with underage but with the method of revenge) I post elsewhere and am comfortable that it will never be a lit story.

The problem is with the stories where, I can't see how they came to the conclusion that a story contains even a hint of underage sex - and i once again reference my story (that i did end up changing) where a girl runs away to avoid an arranged marriage - which would have, had it taken place, involved someone aged 15. but since it never took place -nothing ever happened

 

[lovecraft68]

As yet another thread on the same goddamn topic goes over 100 posts, I want to mention a couple of things

First I want to call attention to the fact that the most pretentious self righteous sycophant here used to run around this forum playing the part of an imaginary playmate named Susie who spoke like a child on a forum on an adult site.

Then sits here in these threads all but calling people pedophiles if they hedge over a 'rule'

I believe it was me calling that out that had him put me on ignore. Some people don't like the mirror being held up to them.

As for the "rule" it is enforced neither consistently, efficiently, professionally, or without any effort to get it right. Because if it was we wouldn't keep getting these questions and debates. The under aged rule here is as real as the "we don't allow rape stories, but have a category called non consent and feel free to use the word rape in a title."

The people are bashing for starting these threads aren't the idiots, the people trying to defend the site are the idiots, and because nothing here tells me there's any real concern over any of these rules. Other sites strictly enforce their rules to the best of their ability, this one doesn't. So maybe the attitude shouldn't be aimed at the people who say "well how come I saw this story here..." and aimed at the people who make this a joke in the first place?

 

[ElectricBlue]

The problem is with the stories where, I can't see how they came to the conclusion that a story contains even a hint of underage sex - and i once again reference my story (that i did end up changing) where a girl runs away to avoid an arranged marriage - which would have, had it taken place, involved someone aged 15. but since it never took place -nothing ever happened

And often, it really is a simple as that - a single sentence which, read by a human and in context, is clearly innocuous. The problem is always in finding it, or accepting that not everyone reads as you do, and some strange something just might be there Think like a word connectivity bot first, then think like someone who has seen every trick in the book played, and err on the side of suspicion.

15, girl, and marriage is a first connection of dots. If you know you have those words, that's when you add a note to the editor, drawing attention to it. I've got a story here with a fifteen year old girl experiencing her first period - I drew Laurel's attention to it in a note, and made sure the nearest sex was five years and two thousand words away, in the next chapter. It went through without a hitch.

 

[PastMaster]

And often, it really is a simple as that - a single sentence which, read by a human and in context, is clearly innocuous. The problem is always in finding it, or accepting that not everyone reads as you do, and some strange something just might be there Think like a word connectivity bot first, then think like someone who has seen every trick in the book played, and err on the side of suspicion.

15, girl, and marriage is a first connection of dots. If you know you have those words, that's when you add a note to the editor, drawing attention to it. I've got a story here with a fifteen year old girl experiencing her first period - I drew Laurel's attention to it in a note, and made sure the nearest sex was five years and two thousand words away, in the next chapter. It went through without a hitch.

I'll give that a whorl - see if that makes any difference.

 

[IttyBittyLulu]

Hey ya’ll I have a question. Currently writing a story and wanted to convey that the characters have liked eachother since they were in elementary school. Nothing sexual just cute crushes. I just wanted to add background story and for readers to know they have known eachother for years. I don’t spend too much time on it. Also wanted to get across that one of them came from a not so nice home. Which shaped him into the guy he is today. They both are of age. Is that allowed? Again nothing sexual. Nothing happens till they are both adults.

 

[lovecraft68]

One last parting shot, then I'm done with this topic for good.

In edition to EB's little playmate being here 'she' used to creepily flirt with Simon. Then the two of them put her in stories (maybe a shared story in some way) aged appropriate, but considering the origins of the character, was she really '18' or was this a big funny wink wink?

So again, there's some people here who should really stop preaching about this particular subject.

Personally I have no desire here to try to write in an underage character, even as just a character because I don't see the need, and I don't feel like having a story kicked back for the line "My fifteen year old sister" while seeing stories here with outright underaged sex.

But just because I don't do it, doesn't mean that I don't know that its so easy to write an actual underaged scene here it tells me the rule isn't no under aged sex, the rule is just be subtle about it. Or, if not in that context the fact they don't want to invest in editors like other sites do just goes back to my point they can't be that serious about stopping it so will just keep kicking back stories that have no actual issue while the others fly through and rely on readers to report them.

After all, why should the onus be on the owners.....that's just crazy talk

 

[ElectricBlue]

Hey ya’ll I have a question. Currently writing a story and wanted to convey that the characters have liked eachother since they were in elementary school. Nothing sexual just cute crushes. I just wanted to add background story and for readers to know they have known eachother for years. I don’t spend too much time on it. Also wanted to get across that one of them came from a not so nice home. Which shaped him into the guy he is today. They both are of age. Is that allowed? Again nothing sexual. Nothing happens till they are both adults.

That would be okay, just don't mention sex. I have a recent story which references 15 and 17 year olds at school, being good friends. The sex is many hundreds of words later, and they have aged several decades. It's a very simple rule, and it's really easy to comply with - don't write anything sexual about under eighteens.

 

[IttyBittyLulu]

That would be okay, just don't mention sex. I have a recent story which references 15 and 17 year olds at school, being good friends. The sex is many hundreds of words later, and they have aged several decades. It's a very simple rule, and it's really easy to comply with - don't write anything sexual about under eighteens.

Thank you so much for taking the time to clarify! I know it’s simple but I found a way to over think and confuse myself lol.I totally understand that rule and will definitely respect it. I wasn’t going to write anything sexual.I made sure to keep it appropriate. They only have sex when she is 18 and he is 21.

I was just concerned because I put the word elementary school in there didn’t want people getting the wrong idea and worse getting in trouble. So again thank you Mr! Very helpful hope your day is going good

 

[ElectricBlue]

I was just concerned because I put the word elementary school in there didn’t want people getting the wrong idea and worse getting in trouble. So again thank you Mr! Very helpful hope your day is going good

For extra surety, put a note to the editor saying exactly what the context is, and where in the story it's mentioned.

As an aside, I have several stories where children have just been born, or toddlers crawling or in a pram. But no sex within at least five hundred words, and with the kids out of the room, or out of the house with their granny.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Amazing - I love the way that some posters just ignore or deny others posts because they dont fit with their idea of the world. I certainly do not question that as the reason for the story to be rejected as I have had a story rejected for a very similar reason. Your statement is not at all proven - all you have proven is that you got lucky with your posts.

The claims I make are not based upon what "fits" my idea of the world, they are based upon the reality of what exists as accepted submissions on this site by hundreds of writers with the ability to include scenes that others fail at for whatever reasons.

If others are able to accomplish what you can't, why do you find that "amazing"?

I find it "skillful".

 

[IttyBittyLulu]

For extra surety, put a note to the editor saying exactly what the context is, and where in the story it's mentioned.

As an aside, I have several stories where children have just been born, or toddlers crawling or in a pram. But no sex within at least five hundred words, and with the kids out of the room, or out of the house with their granny.

Good idea! I will definitely leave a note on the side regarding the context.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Literotica has rules. Unfortunately the rules are enforced in...an idiosyncratic fashion. It depends on who reviews your story and what kind of mood they're in. I once had a story repeatedly rejected because a character endorsed liking Coca-Cola over other brands of soda -- this was construed as a commercial endorsement. And the reviewer didn't even inform me that was the reason the story was rejected, so I kept making other changes and getting it sent back time and again before I begged the reviewer to tell me what was wrong. And yet in other stories I have had characters express preferences for brands and not had it kicked back at all. So there are some pretty wild inconsistencies in how rules are enforced.

I won't disagree with the inconsistency, although it has never been an issue for me personally.

To my knowledge, initial reviews of submissions are performed by "bots", tuned to find key words or phrases. I have read that many writers rejected by these find success by contacting the admin and requesting a human review, which often does the trick for them. Bots will likely ignore context where a human reviewer might be more tolerant.

 

[oggbashan]

Laurel isn't infallable.

If you find a story that appears to break the rules, you should use the Report function and it will be reviewed.

 

[SimonDoom]

This thread is making me feel old and tired. I've been here for a little over 6 years and I've seen every possible permutation of this discussion, and there literally is nothing more to be said about it, and still that rock keeps getting pushed up the hill, as though something different will happen this time.

 

[PastMaster]

This thread is making me feel old and tired. I've been here for a little over 6 years and I've seen every possible permutation of this discussion, and there literally is nothing more to be said about it, and still that rock keeps getting pushed up the hill, as though something different will happen this time.

The definition of insantity is repeating the same actions, while expecting a different outcome.

I can see how rehashing the same argument over and over can be incredibly tiring and frustrating. This thread - however, started with a question, asked by a new user who has not been here for the last six ten or twelve years as you guys have so hasnt seen them. Not only that but he did not suggest in any way that the rules were wrong, nor that he wanted to change them.

He asked a question - and received abuse, and the outrageous statement that his story must be rubbish if he couldn't age a character by 2 years to meet the rules. The rules in a site, I reiterate, that he had already said he, on reflection, was not going to post the story on.

Then the pack arrived and started barking, and that immediately changed the subject of the thread to what they wanted to bark about. It was the pack that rehashed the argument not the OP - of course there were responses.

I guess it is a failing in all bulletin board sites. Perhaps once a question is answered, the thread should close. Initially there were some reasonable and reasoned answers and if the thread had been closed as 'answered' then there might not have been the opportunity for the carnage that ensued.

One question which I believe the OP actually asked at some stage in the discussion is valid. If people are so tired of rehashing the same argument over and over again - why do they even engage with the thread - why not simply say - 'not interested' and move on?

 

[oggbashan]

I have had enough!

Literotica is a site for adults, for stories about adults written by adults.

For more than 20 years this question has been asked and the answer is always NO!

If you want to write about children? Fuck off!

 

[SimonDoom]

He asked a question - and received abuse, and the outrageous statement that his story must be rubbish if he couldn't age a character by 2 years to meet the rules. The rules in a site, I reiterate, that he had already said he, on reflection, was not going to post the story on.

Re-read the first page of this thread, before you got involved. I defy you to identify a single response to the OP's question that could be characterized as "abuse." People answered his question, and most, myself included, advised him that it wouldn't fly. Some people have very strong negative opinions about any attempt by authors to avoid the under-18 rule. I don't. But I don't find the rule nearly as difficult to navigate as some people do. I pretty much figured it out within about a week of getting involved in this forum, and I don't see why it's so difficult for people to figure out. All the hand-wringing can be avoided by doing a little homework, reading the site's rules on this subject, and simply steering clear of having under-18 characters involved in, thinking about, talking about, or reminiscing about sexual activity.

 

[PastMaster]

Re-read the first page of this thread, before you got involved. I defy you to identify a single response to the OP's question that could be characterized as "abuse." People answered his question, and most, myself included, advised him that it wouldn't fly. Some people have very strong negative opinions about any attempt by authors to avoid the under-18 rule. I don't. But I don't find the rule nearly as difficult to navigate as some people do. I pretty much figured it out within about a week of getting involved in this forum, and I don't see why it's so difficult for people to figure out. All the hand-wringing can be avoided by doing a little homework, reading the site's rules on this subject, and simply steering clear of having under-18 characters involved in, thinking about, talking about, or reminiscing about sexual activity.

I reread the posting from the beginning, and i was involved in it. so you are saying that when OGG said "Bullshit. If the change from age 16 to aage 18 is so critical, the story is rtubbish!" is a reasonable comment - especially given that the OP had already said that he wasnt going to post on Lit.

But again you are steering the discussion back to make it look like the op and I were both railiing at Lit rules - that was not the case.

Its a typical politics move - if you dont want to answer the question - rephrase it as a different question and then answer that instead.

As i said in my last post - if the thread had been closed after the original question had been actually answered - none of the argument would have happened - it was caused completely when the pack arrived and decided to get involved.

 

[tnhardon]

I can't age her up (she's the little sister of an 18-year-old), and she's so intimately woven into the story that cutting the discussion scenes would necessitate cutting the character. And I could theoretically do that, but the more I think about it, the more roadblocks I see to posting this particular one on Literotica. It fits better on other sites.

I think as soon as you list an age, you are likely to get it struck down. Without knowing the full context, it is hard to know for certain, but in my experience there is very little grace given when you write about someone underage.

My solution would be to not list an age and/or not mention that she is the younger sister to an 18 year old. If you leave ambiguity you are more likely to avoid issues while not entirely sacrificing your scene.

I’ve written some scenes in the past where someone who is 18/19 years old reflects on their past. By not listing exactly how long ago that was or how old the character is in the flashback, you leave it up to the discretion of the reader to decide how they will interpret it. For instance, if I am talking about a character who is 18/19 and I’m referring to a prior relationship they were in, I would avoid stating how long ago that relationship was or how old they were at the time of the relationship, if you are going to mention anything sexual in nature.

My understanding is that it isn’t completely not allowed to have an underage character in a story. For instance- you are writing a story about a mom and she has kids who are under 18 would be allowed, those kids just need to not be mentioned or included in anything sexual. You could have a scene where the guy meets the mom’s kids and they hit it off. Maybe the mom views the guy through a new lens after seeing him interact with kids so well. But, I would never include anything that details them knowing about something sexual or being present to anything sexual. Avoid grey areas and avoid pushing the lines on the age rule.