Anyone Ever Notice?

[Zeb_Carter]

To clarify, this continent here = Africa.
The world you grew up in might not actually have been 'the World'.

No, it was the world of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and it was the only world I knew until I join the Air Force, that's U.S. Air Force. Then I knew all kinds of places on the world and found out the rest of the world was really fucked up.

And with the introduction of smart phones, it's even more fucked up. Yes, I own a smart phone, but all I use it for is to make and received phone calls. Oh, and playing solitary on the shitter. Other than that, it sits on my desk or is in my back pocket. And if I'm driving along and it rings, I ignore it until I either get home or to a destination that I can call the person back.

As for texting... rarely.

You might want to read my bio.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Plenty of over-head cam engines do without rocker arms, with the cam pushing directly down on the valves (often the valve-stems covered by 'buckets.')

But yes, many cars (BMW, Mercedes) still use rocker arms even on high-end over-head cam engines.

I realize that, but those engines are named differently, Overhead Cam shafts and the covers look completely different. And still the cheapest way is to make an engine is with rocker arms.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Actually, I was referring to "push rods;" the rocker arms are the things at the top of the engine that open and close the valves. Push rods were shafts of metal that connected the crankshaft at the bottom to the camshaft at the top, which in turn opens and closes the valves at the top of each cylinder - through its connection to the rocker arms, I assume. It's all very Rube Goldberg, but I was indeed using the wrong terminology.

Anyway, at some point (the 1970s or '80s?) metal push rods (the somewhat misnamed "overhead value engine") were replaced by a timing belt connecting the two shafts at the bottom and top of the engine. Those have to be replaced periodically, or they will break and shut down everything. (That happened to me once, although I was well within Volkswagen's time limit.)

So, did I get that right?

Anyway, you may know most of that but I'd guess that the vast majority of American drivers know almost none of it.

Hmm.... rocker arms without pushrods? Never seen one. Now over head cams I have seen and I think that's what you might be taking about, but if and engine as rocker arms, it has push rods. If it's an overhead cam engine it has neither as the cam sets atop the valve stem where the rocker arm would go.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Actually, I was referring to "push rods;" the rocker arms are the things at the top of the engine that open and close the valves. Push rods were shafts of metal that connected the crankshaft at the bottom to the camshaft at the top, which in turn opens and closes the valves at the top of each cylinder - through its connection to the rocker arms, I assume. It's all very Rube Goldberg, but I was indeed using the wrong terminology.

Anyway, at some point (the 1970s or '80s?) metal push rods (the somewhat misnamed "overhead value engine") were replaced by a timing belt connecting the two shafts at the bottom and top of the engine. Those have to be replaced periodically, or they will break and shut down everything. (That happened to me once, although I was well within Volkswagen's time limit.)

So, did I get that right?

Anyway, you may know most of that but I'd guess that the vast majority of American drivers know almost none of it.

No, they weren't. You're talking about the timing belt and all cars have one. It goes from the crankshaft to the camshaft(s). You might be right about an overhead cam engine being introduced in the 70s. But the never did away with pushrods and rocker arms in engines. Over head camshaft engines were complicated and expensive to not only build, but to maintain. They still are today.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You are absolutely correct, but for most people "the world" is what they know or knew. Ever see one of those "person in the street" interview videos? (Jay Leno pioneered them.) "Name one country in South America," "name one country in Africa," "who won the Civil War?, "name the Vice-President." A lot of them can't answer any of those.

It's easy to laugh at them, or say that they are narrow-minded or ignorant. But I've come to believe something rather dark about human nature. They may say otherwise, but most people actually think, "I only care about what directly affects me or my family, or somehow interests me (like a hobby of some sort)."

"Point out Mali on a map." "What's Mali?" It's regrettable, but there is no point in bemoaning it.

And even with a smart phone, todays 'adults' still can/couldn't answer any of those question. At least here in the States. I remember grammar school (elementary school grades K-8) every class room had a globe in it on a stand. I was huge, but I guess as a child it would seem so. This was before there was a Department of Education, we won't get into that here. We were drilled on all the major countries in the world. You ask any person my age where Mali is and they might be able to show you, if Mali was a country back in the 50's.

Most kids today can't even use a map properly. We have lost so much...

 

[yowser]

Hmm.... rocker arms without pushrods? Never seen one. Now over head cams I have seen and I think that's what you might be taking about, but if and engine as rocker arms, it has push rods. If it's an overhead cam engine it has neither as the cam sets atop the valve stem where the rocker arm would go.

BMW for decades had rocker arms on their overhead cams. You've got the relationship slightly off.

Pushrods means rockers absolutely, but an overhead cam (see photo) can also employ rockers to the valves off to the side.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7318/8734248387_ff99950208_c.jpgP5139660 by ipv7net, on Flickr

 

[Bubo_bubo]

No, it was the world of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and it was the only world I knew until I join the Air Force, that's U.S. Air Force. Then I knew all kinds of places on the world and found out the rest of the world was really fucked up.

And with the introduction of smart phones, it's even more fucked up. Yes, I own a smart phone, but all I use it for is to make and received phone calls. Oh, and playing solitary on the shitter. Other than that, it sits on my desk or is in my back pocket. And if I'm driving along and it rings, I ignore it until I either get home or to a destination that I can call the person back.

As for texting... rarely.

You might want to read my bio.

Well I could go on about the positive changes that mobile phones and especially smartphones have made in the lives of countless poor people. But it doesn't seem to be a subject that interests you, so I'll leave it that.

With the countries you mention in your bio, I'm a bit surprised that you find the world so fucked up, They're pretty nice countries (well apart from the Gulf countries, though luxury has it's own quality, and well, South America is a big place, there are some less nice countries).

 

[gunhilltrain]

No, they weren't. You're talking about the timing belt and all cars have one. It goes from the crankshaft to the camshaft(s). You might be right about an overhead cam engine being introduced in the 70s. But the never did away with pushrods and rocker arms in engines. Over head camshaft engines were complicated and expensive to not only build, but to maintain. They still are today.

Are you absolutely sure of that? From what I've been able to find out, push rods and timing belts basically do the same thing (transmitting motion to open and close the valves), so you need one of the other, but not both.

Push rod engine still exists

Modern overhead cams

My takeaway on this is that the push rod engine is the older design and some are still made. From the diagram on the left in the first article, it appears that there was no camshaft at all, but the rush rods moved the rocker arms (isn't that the second thing in the diagram?) and that it turn moves the valves up and down.

The overhead cam engine with the timing belt is the newer and now much more common design. It seems pretty clear from the article that there are two different engine designs (one old and one newer) and direct comparisons are being made between the two. The second article is even titled, "Why an 'obsolete' pushrod engine design is better than a modern overhead cams." It seems that the rocker arms are still there in all engines but the push rods are not.

That seems pretty clear, doesn't it?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Well I could go on about the positive changes that mobile phones and especially smartphones have made in the lives of countless poor people. But it doesn't seem to be a subject that interests you, so I'll leave it that.

With the countries you mention in your bio, I'm a bit surprised that you find the world so fucked up, They're pretty nice countries (well apart from the Gulf countries, though luxury has it's own quality, and well, South America is a big place, there are some less nice countries).

Bubo, at a certain point in online discussions, I call it a day and concede the field (as I probably will next in the car engine discussion). Some of the these issues - the impact of technology, the state of the world in general - can get extremely subjective and depend on the point of view of a particular person. That in turn is dependent on a whole lot of things, perhaps a whole lifetime of experiences. At 67, I don't quite believe everything I accepted at 25.

But the point is: I don't really know any of you beyond what you've all written on the site. I can't even influence people I know in person (the so-called "real word"). I'm probably pretty subjective myself, but it's not my job to be the H.L. Mencken (a pundit, in other words) for everything that happens on Lit or any other venue.

 

[TxRad]

Timing belts and push rods are to completely different things. Timing belts or timing chains set the timing between the rotation on the crank and the cam. Push rods carry the motion of the cam lobes to the rocker arms which in turn open and close the valves.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Bubo, at a certain point in online discussions, I call it a day and concede the field (as I probably will next in the car engine discussion). Some of the these issues - the impact of technology, the state of the world in general - can get extremely subjective and depend on the point of view of a particular person. That in turn is dependent on a whole lot of things, perhaps a whole lifetime of experiences. At 67, I don't quite believe everything I accepted at 25.

Hence "I leave it that" (well for the phones)

And I shall leave it at that on whether or not the world is really fucked up.

But the point is: I don't really know any of you beyond what you've all written on the site. I can't even influence people I know in person (the so-called "real word"). I'm probably pretty subjective myself, but it's not my job to be the H.L. Mencken (a pundit, in other words) for everything that happens on Lit or any other venue.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Hence "I leave it that" (well for the phones)

And I shall leave it at that on whether or not the world is really fucked up.

One thing, please don't take it personally! Or that I never want to hear from you again. It's just that I've been in a number of online discussions over the years, and when they drift too far from the original purpose (and how is that defined?), it can get quite confusing after a while.

One of the places I saw that was on the Internet Movie Database, which still exists but they gave up on their forums years ago. It was a huge and crazy place because every movie, TV show, and "celebrity" had its own board (plus many other topics). After a while the owners just shut it down, although I admit that at times I had some fun on there. It was the first place I ever published anything, because I got away with posting some of my "screenplays" in instalments there. There was a word limit on each post and I would push it as far as I could.

P.S.: I think Amazon owns it now.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

One thing, please don't take it personally! Or that I never want to hear from you again. <snip>

Oh no. You're quite OK in my book. You were right to point it out. I can sometimes get a bit involved in these kind of discussions, and at times even get a bit, well, nasty, pedantic and outright mean. Unlike my usual friendly and helpful, though still pedantic, self.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Oh no. You're quite OK in my book. You were right to point it out. I can sometimes get a bit involved in these kind of discussions, and at times even get a bit, well, nasty, pedantic and outright mean. Unlike my usual friendly and helpful, though still pedantic, self.

I think I meant to say that most of us - even me! - get pedantic online at times, although I try to be polite. Yet I have stepped on toes at times, sometimes inadvertently , sometimes when I should have known better. It's just so easy to post a "throwaway" comment and then regret it later.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

BMW for decades had rocker arms on their overhead cams. You've got the relationship slightly off.

Pushrods means rockers absolutely, but an overhead cam (see photo) can also employ rockers to the valves off to the side.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7318/8734248387_ff99950208_c.jpgP5139660 by ipv7net, on Flickr

Ah yes, the single overhead cam engine. Yes they do utilize rocker arms. Dual overhead cam engines don't.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Are you absolutely sure of that? From what I've been able to find out, push rods and timing belts basically do the same thing (transmitting motion to open and close the valves), so you need one of the other, but not both.

Push rod engine still exists

Modern overhead cams

My takeaway on this is that the push rod engine is the older design and some are still made. From the diagram on the left in the first article, it appears that there was no camshaft at all, but the rush rods moved the rocker arms (isn't that the second thing in the diagram?) and that it turn moves the valves up and down.

The overhead cam engine with the timing belt is the newer and now much more common design. It seems pretty clear from the article that there are two different engine designs (one old and one newer) and direct comparisons are being made between the two. The second article is even titled, "Why an 'obsolete' pushrod engine design is better than a modern overhead cams." It seems that the rocker arms are still there in all engines but the push rods are not.

That seems pretty clear, doesn't it?

The timing belt insures that the crankshaft and the cam are in perfect timing. Without the timing belt the engine would be unable to run, unless it was a single cylinder engine. Any more and you need to make sure the piston is in the right place when the value opens or visa versa.

Overhead cam engine have been around a long, long time, since the 1900s.

ie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_camshaft_engine

This link will give you all you need to know about timing belts, etc.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well I could go on about the positive changes that mobile phones and especially smartphones have made in the lives of countless poor people. But it doesn't seem to be a subject that interests you, so I'll leave it that.

With the countries you mention in your bio, I'm a bit surprised that you find the world so fucked up, They're pretty nice countries (well apart from the Gulf countries, though luxury has it's own quality, and well, South America is a big place, there are some less nice countries).

Your right but I look at somethings differently. Having been in those countries, I saw how they thought about a lot of things way differently than we did. Most were out to get what they could get as quick as they could get it. I saw how little they thought of a human life.

I can also see the changes in the poor, they now have an entertainment center in the palm of their hand making them laugh their cares away 24/365.

Like I said I use mine as a phone, not an entertainment center. I have my desktop for that.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Your right but I look at somethings differently. Having been in those countries, I saw how they thought about a lot of things way differently than we did. Most were out to get what they could get as quick as they could get it. I saw how little they thought of a human life.

I can also see the changes in the poor, they now have an entertainment center in the palm of their hand making them laugh their cares away 24/365.

Like I said I use mine as a phone, not an entertainment center. I have my desktop for that.

It's occurred to me that smartphones are used somewhat differently in North America than in Africa. To me, one of the more problematic aspects of smartphones are the dating apps like Bumble, Tinder, Hinge and so forth. (I do not have first-hand experience with them.) I think that such apps have become the number one way people now meet in the United States and probably elsewhere, which seems rather amazing. Are they used that much anywhere in Africa?

I've also heard, again second-hand, that the dating situation with these apps has not been good for either gender. (One can look up various comments made about them.) If anyone here has experience with them and wants to comment, well, this is your chance.

 

[gunhilltrain]

The timing belt insures that the crankshaft and the cam are in perfect timing. Without the timing belt the engine would be unable to run, unless it was a single cylinder engine. Any more and you need to make sure the piston is in the right place when the value opens or visa versa.

Overhead cam engine have been around a long, long time, since the 1900s.

ie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_camshaft_engine

This link will give you all you need to know about timing belts, etc.

I think I know more than I'll ever need about these things, thanks. As long as I step on the gas and the car goes forward, then all is well.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Silly me, if the car starts and sounds good, I'm good to go! If it doesn't sound right or doesn't start, I call my dad and scream, "HELP."

 

[Bubo_bubo]

It's occurred to me that smartphones are used somewhat differently in North America than in Africa. To me, one of the more problematic aspects of smartphones are the dating apps like Bumble, Tinder, Hinge and so forth. (I do not have first-hand experience with them.) I think that such apps have become the number one way people now meet in the United States and probably elsewhere, which seems rather amazing. Are they used that much anywhere in Africa?

I've also heard, again second-hand, that the dating situation with these apps has not been good for either gender. (One can look up various comments made about them.) If anyone here has experience with them and wants to comment, well, this is your chance.

Dating apps? No.

Mobile phones meant a technological leapfrog if you want. Landlines where never much developed and are a technology that's barely used. A fairly simple smartphone can be found for a 100 dollars, maybe even less and a SIM card for just a few dollars, while a PC is quickly 8 times that amount, and depends a lot more on electricity, which is not always reliable and poorer people might not have continuous access to.

With mobile phones now a young son can go to the city find his luck and still know what happens to his folks au village hundred or more miles away. And one of the most important things is how a mobile phone functions like an electronic wallet. Less need to carry around cash and you can send part of the money back to your relatives au village without much complications. We use to pay people a thousand miles away up in the desert where there are no banks. I pay my utilities with my phone.

And that's before going to apps like Whatsapp for sharing pics, but also sending documents, more or less like a fax before.