"Jeffrey Sachs: " I'm pretty convinced COVID came out of U.S. lab biotechnology"

[ll74]

The people who believe gof created the virus don't understand gof. And probably corn as well...since most current crops originated by gof.

 

[Chobham]

nevermind the wave of racism, that this whole pinning on unsanitary Wet markets unleashed.
Chinese laypeople are as much victims as we all are
not the cause of the pandemic.

Has anyone blamed the Chinese citizen?

 

[mayfly13]

Has anyone blamed the Chinese citizen?

in Australia. The racism is just mind-blowing

 

[mayfly13]

Not that I'm a fan of the willy/+/-cunning and fake humble Chinese mentality either.

 

[Chobham]

in Australia. The racism is just mind-blowing

Interesting. I have to admit I'm not particularly impressed with what the Australian government believes passes for reality (for that matter my own right now).

 

[Chobham]

The people who believe gof created the virus don't understand gof. And probably corn as well...since most current crops originated by gof.

I wonder if you do? Here's a paper from a symposium held in 2015.

Gain of Function Research.

It appears that even those intimately involved in the research can't quite agree, even to the point of suggesting new terms need to be coined.

 

[ll74]

I wonder if you do? Here's a paper from a symposium held in 2015.

Gain of Function Research.

It appears that even those intimately involved in the research can't quite agree, even to the point of suggesting new terms need to be coined.

I posted a lengthy discussion on the topic earlier in the thread. I'm thankful for corn and good juicy tomatoes. Finding what types of conditions a virus can develop more favorable conditions for contagion is valuable.....that isn't done with a full powered virus. Lab leak is possible, which has been acknowledged to be so...

 

[mayfly13]

Interesting. I have to admit I'm not particularly impressed with what the Australian government believes passes for reality (for that matter my own right now).

on the contrary, I ? think

My sense is that, while several docus and pieces on East Asian wet markets sparked laypeople's anger with the "bat-eaters"
the Australian government is more open to the theory of a lab leak, than America/Canada/EU/NZ are.

Probably because of it's vicinity with China.
People used to complain how Chinese businesses bought many houses and are now renting them out to locals, and how they bought and are now hollowing out Oceania's fish fauna.
Lately, I heard more talks about? a military threat.

You likely already know these, but I'm still writing cause you might find the topic interesting . Ishtat might -or not- disagree with me, as I said, this ain't my niche.

 

[Chobham]

I posted a lengthy discussion on the topic earlier in the thread. I'm thankful for corn and good juicy tomatoes. Finding what types of conditions a virus can develop more favorable conditions for contagion is valuable.....that isn't done with a full powered virus. Lab leak is possible, which has been acknowledged to be so...

I read that, so what? GMO's come with problems of their own and I'm not speaking specifically of biological issues. Besides, because of their life cycles most crops could be erradicated failry quickly if the need ever arose.

This is not true WRT to viral research. In nature viruses mutate at a relatively slow rate. GoF research forces the mutations to occur rapidly. (As an aside the Wuhan Flu is mutating at a rate unheard of in nature. Surprising, and scaring, many researchers) As much as we'd like to parse the terms the fact remains that the results of gentic engineering and GoF are ultimately the same. It's like arguing over which airline you took to get to Paris. We're here so the specific methodology is rather immaterial at this point.

I also read your post re. research for vaccines. And that has a certain validity but the fact remains that the pathogen MUST preceed the cure. And if the pathogen gets lose in the population before said cure we have, well, the Wuhan Flu.

The following are quote from a researcher that STILL favors 'natural origin' for the Wuhan Flu. Even so he does damn the Wuhan Lab.

"I believe that this is very important work, but it's not to be undertaken lightly. In the most dangerous cases - which can also be the most important ones, at times - you may be working with a virus that could acquire (through your work) the ability to spread through the human population. Even further, you may be working with a virus that is already capable of doing that, and producing forms of it that are still more infectious or more easily able to avoid the human immune response. This sort of work calls for extremely stringent review and oversight, and it also needs the highest levels of lab safety and containment measures that biomedicine is capable of providing.

That's BSL-4, and those controls apply to any lab that's handling the most dangerous pathogens. There are only a few dozen labs in the world that work at these levels, and very few of those are doing anything like gain-of-function. Some of them, for example, are strictly for diagnostic work. That link provides the less-than-reassuring news, though, that only about a quarter of those labs receive high scores overall for safety and security. And only a handful of countries categorize experiments like gain-of-function research as a separate thing that needs its own regulatory oversight. China does not, nor are they members of the International Experts Group on Biosafety and Biosecurity Regulators."

Gain of Function.

 

[Chobham]

on the contrary, I ? think

My sense is that, while several docus and pieces on East Asian wet markets sparked laypeople's anger with the "bat-eaters"
the Australian government is more open to the theory of a lab leak, than America/Canada/EU/NZ are.

Probably because of it's vicinity with China.
People used to complain how Chinese businesses bought many houses and are now renting them out to locals, and how they bought and are now hollowing out Oceania's fish fauna.
Lately, I heard more talks about? a military threat.

You likely already know these, but I'm still writing cause you might find the topic interesting . Ishtat might -or not- disagree with me, as I said, this ain't my niche.

Agreed. My observation is not strictly limited to the Wuhan Flu.

I'm well aware of what the CCP is up to. I'm also aware that China is dying......................rapidly. The focus is to contain them until the death throws are over so as they don't lash out. As one example, by the year 2050 there will be 500 million less Chinese alive than there are today. This is a direct result of their "one child" policy that was in effect for FAR too long.

 

[mayfly13]

Agreed. My observation is not strictly limited to the Wuhan Flu.

I'm well aware of what the CCP is up to. I'm also aware that China is dying......................rapidly. The focus is to contain them until the death throws are over so as they don't lash out. As one example, by the year 2050 there will be 500 million less Chinese alive than there are today. This is a direct result of their "one child" policy that was in effect for FAR too long.

I never thought about it like that, but it makes sense.


Just like Europe and the US.

I could surely understand Republicans' attempts to stop America from dying
if their attitudes weren't as brute-ish and demeaning of women.

Australia and even Russia gave US and Poland a lesson in humanity, when they tried using incentives (financial support for the child, well unfortunately their Reps scaled that down now) instead

 

[Chobham]

I never thought about it like that, but it makes sense.


Just like Europe and the US.

I could surely understand Republicans' attempts to stop America from dying
if their attitudes weren't as brute-ish and demeaning of women.

Australia and even Russia gave US and Poland a lesson in humanity, when they tried using incentives (financial support for the child, well unfortunately their Reps scaled that down now) instead

Bribing up pro-creativity. Germany started that back in the late 1970's. Didn't work for them either.

The abortion thing is a tempest in a teapot. It's not going to make a significant difference in the US fertility rate. Women have reproductive rights in the form of birth control and that's not going away..............ever. And that is spreading throughout the world.

Demographically the US is in pretty good shape, as is most of the Western hemisphere. The rest of the world has a problem.

 

[mayfly13]

The abortion thing is a tempest in a teapot. It's not going to make a significant difference in the US fertility rate. Women have reproductive rights in the form of birth control and that's not going away..............ever. And that is spreading throughout the world

they should tell their rapists: "Here's a condom. Is it on? Good. Now you can go on &rape me"
Or start 11 year old girls from Ohio on the pill, in case their fathers secretly assault them

 

[Chobham]

they should tell their rapists: "Here's a condom. Is it on? Good. Now you can go on &rape me"
Or start 11 year old girls from Ohio on the pill, in case their fathers secretly assault them

Start a new thread if you insist on persuing this subject.

 

[Rotadom]

Agreed. My observation is not strictly limited to the Wuhan Flu.

I'm well aware of what the CCP is up to. I'm also aware that China is dying......................rapidly. The focus is to contain them until the death throws are over so as they don't lash out. As one example, by the year 2050 there will be 500 million less Chinese alive than there are today. This is a direct result of their "one child" policy that was in effect for FAR too long.

lmao.

 

[ll74]

I read that, so what? GMO's come with problems of their own and I'm not speaking specifically of biological issues. Besides, because of their life cycles most crops could be erradicated failry quickly if the need ever arose.

This is not true WRT to viral research. In nature viruses mutate at a relatively slow rate. GoF research forces the mutations to occur rapidly. (As an aside the Wuhan Flu is mutating at a rate unheard of in nature. Surprising, and scaring, many researchers) As much as we'd like to parse the terms the fact remains that the results of gentic engineering and GoF are ultimately the same. It's like arguing over which airline you took to get to Paris. We're here so the specific methodology is rather immaterial at this point.

I also read your post re. research for vaccines. And that has a certain validity but the fact remains that the pathogen MUST preceed the cure. And if the pathogen gets lose in the population before said cure we have, well, the Wuhan Flu.

The following are quote from a researcher that STILL favors 'natural origin' for the Wuhan Flu. Even so he does damn the Wuhan Lab.

"I believe that this is very important work, but it's not to be undertaken lightly. In the most dangerous cases - which can also be the most important ones, at times - you may be working with a virus that could acquire (through your work) the ability to spread through the human population. Even further, you may be working with a virus that is already capable of doing that, and producing forms of it that are still more infectious or more easily able to avoid the human immune response. This sort of work calls for extremely stringent review and oversight, and it also needs the highest levels of lab safety and containment measures that biomedicine is capable of providing.

That's BSL-4, and those controls apply to any lab that's handling the most dangerous pathogens. There are only a few dozen labs in the world that work at these levels, and very few of those are doing anything like gain-of-function. Some of them, for example, are strictly for diagnostic work. That link provides the less-than-reassuring news, though, that only about a quarter of those labs receive high scores overall for safety and security. And only a handful of countries categorize experiments like gain-of-function research as a separate thing that needs its own regulatory oversight. China does not, nor are they members of the International Experts Group on Biosafety and Biosecurity Regulators."

Gain of Function.

That aligns with my position and understanding of GoF. It's important work that's gotten a bad rep, but it definitely needs to have proper security around it's use. The problem with respitory viruses is that they are the most prominent and dangerous to humans, and so figuring out what makes them tick can allow us to have an answer once they evolve into something like Covid.

I think when it comes down to it, people need an evil to fight against, so they create one. And twisting nature to our will is seen as an afront to their God...so it's an easy target.

 

[Chobham]

lmao.

Idiots are easily amused.

 

[Rotadom]

Idiots are easily amused.

This is true but the idiot in this scenario is the guy claiming things he has zero knowledge of.

 

[LittleDixie]

I think when it comes down to it, people need an evil to fight against, so they create one. And twisting nature to our will is seen as an afront to their God...so it's an easy target.

No, this isn't about God. This is about people wielding more power than they can handle responsibly. This is about humans' capabilities outpacing our wisdom and caution.

This is a campfire (started with good intentions) that starts a forest fire. This is a child finding it's parents loaded handgun.

We CAN do these things, but SHOULD we?

Should we create a strain of HIV that is airborne, just to study it? No.

 

[rockcasbah]

I’m pretty certain you’re all fools.

The coronavirus has been around and mutating, for at least 25 years.

It’s been studied around the world by private industry and governments alike, with a new kind of vax developed and tested over decades to match and catch the mutations.

Meanwhile…you lot want to pretend that shadowy global deep state elites hatched a nefarious plan to destroy their own wealth, kill the consumers they sell to and create a new world order where everyone has less.

Brilliant!

 

[Biggs_Darklighter]

No, this isn't about God. This is about people wielding more power than they can handle responsibly. This is about humans' capabilities outpacing our wisdom and caution.

This is a campfire (started with good intentions) that starts a forest fire. This is a child finding it's parents loaded handgun.

We CAN do these things, but SHOULD we?

Should we create a strain of HIV that is airborne, just to study it? No.

You are disturbingly stupid.

 

[ll74]

No, this isn't about God. This is about people wielding more power than they can handle responsibly. This is about humans' capabilities outpacing our wisdom and caution.

This is a campfire (started with good intentions) that starts a forest fire. This is a child finding it's parents loaded handgun.

We CAN do these things, but SHOULD we?

Should we create a strain of HIV that is airborne, just to study it? No.

We didn't create Covid.

Should we explore aspects of things that will kill us to better understandi them?

Absolutely yes. Advancements are made by learning about things we don't yet know.

 

[LittleDixie]

You are disturbingly stupid.

Still playing that cyber-bully card, eh?

 

[ll74]

The thing about Covid and these other respiratory viruses is that we know what makes them dangerous.....we just don't know the conditions in which the dangerous but evolve. You can't study that without poking and prodding....working with the actual viruses.

 

[rockcasbah]

You can't study that without poking...

That explains Monkey Pox, apparently.