"Jeffrey Sachs: " I'm pretty convinced COVID came out of U.S. lab biotechnology"

[phrodeau]

If true, then those responsible for manufacturing deadly viruses need to be tried and convicted for crimes against humanity.

Now let’s discuss the American gun industry.

 

[LittleDixie]

They didn't create the virus.

Okay, we disagree.

But, for the sake of argument let's just say that they did. I know you don't believe it, and that's fine. But, IF they did - IF Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman or John Oliver came out and reported that "Oh shit, new evidence proves that COVID-19 was created in the Wuhan Lab", would you defend that? If I could somehow prove that the virus was created, would you be outraged, or would you defend them?

 

[ll74]

Okay, we disagree.

But, for the sake of argument let's just say that they did.

No, they didn't. So there's no argument.

 

[LittleDixie]

No, they didn't. So there's no argument.

Says you. However, you are just parroting what they told you to say.

 

[ll74]

Says you. However, you are just parroting what they told you to say.

I don't argue hypotheticals...sorry. There is no evidence that suggests what you believe. But I guess you could agree with the economists that there is.

 

[rockcasbah]

Says you. However, you are just parroting what they told you to say.

“ show us your tits”
“ tits or get out”

- the forum parrot

 

[mayfly13]

There's a spark of truth in what you say.

All research, no matter what the field, is a series of building blocks. New research is based on previous research. In some instances the roots can be traced back to antiquity. The reason research is published is so that succeeding researchers can build upon the base. There can be no doubt that the base research that led to the Wuhan Flu originated in the US, or at least part of it. All research papers are essentially "How To" manuals there was no need for anyone to ship any progenitor virus anywhere, most of the labs engaged in that research already had the root virus.

As explicitly stated in the linked article, the proposal submitted to DARPA was not funded, at least not funded by DARPA. However, the proposal was out there in the open and anyone could have picked up on that research. The funding, in part, could have been via a NIH grant funneled through an intermediary (mentioned in the article).

good points, didn't know

What IS interesting about the article is that it ties the origin of the Wuhan Flu back to genetic engineering and that is contrary to everything we've been told by the research community that has a vested interest in NOT being held accountable. The article also explicitly implies that the source of the release of the virus into the public was the Wuhan lab.

All such research is inherently dangerous but it won't stop. We're going to do it because they're going to do it and they're going to do it because we're going to do it. It is an arms race of sorts.

I don't quite understamd the nh/darpa side, but for me the essences are, like you said:
1 that it was a man-made virus ---boring topic now, top scientists whistleblowers told us for 2 years
2. the origin was covered up. --- mind-blowiing.

I can understand the initial cover-up, don't spread panic upriisings and unrullinness could be disastruous
But later on by politicians and well-placed scientists? Yuck.

Even now I'm annoyed AS FUCK seeing
--Ill67's attempt to deflect
LitteDixie's (the same person who lobbied against protection against the virus) 'ike'

 

[mayfly13]

Another Right versus Left fight?
LittleDixie and Ill67

Fuck man.
Are you all so irreversibly retarded?

 

[mayfly13]

If true, then those responsible for manufacturing deadly viruses need to be tried and convicted for crimes against humanity.

Now let’s discuss the American gun industry.

both

 

[ll74]

Another Right versus Left fight?
LittleDixie and Ill67

Fuck man.
Are you all so irreversibly retarded?

You posted an economist telling everyone he believes it was man made.

But sure .."right versus left"

 

[mayfly13]

You posted an economist telling everyone he believes it was man made.

But sure .."right versus left"

backed by Neil Harrison, a Columbia University professor of molecular pharmacology and therapeutics, who claimed, among others, that "SARS-CoV-2has a sequence of eight amino acids on a critical part of the virus’s spike protein that is identical to an amino acid sequence found in cells that line human airways."



oh look. butters gave you a like

 

[rockcasbah]

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

The 2015 article that fuelled the conspiracy theory.

 

[ll74]

backed by Neil Harrison

May want to look at who doesn't back it and why.

"COVID lab-leak theory: ‘Rare’ genetic sequence doesn’t mean the virus was engineered - Alliance for Science" https://allianceforscience.cornell....equence-doesnt-mean-the-virus-was-engineered/

Many more backers on including more virologists. But hey ..economists..

 

[mayfly13]

May want to look at who doesn't back it and why.

"COVID lab-leak theory: ‘Rare’ genetic sequence doesn’t mean the virus was engineered - Alliance for Science" https://allianceforscience.cornell....equence-doesnt-mean-the-virus-was-engineered/

Many more backers on including more virologists. But hey ..economists..

well, I live across the pond, and have far more confidence in Australian and NZ scientists.
They did a computational model and other research at Flinders University
and two other researchers in NZ too

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

The 2015 article that fuelled the conspiracy theory.

not clear to me if you believe that, or are trying to goad us for a laugh
but it can no longer be labeled 'conspiracy theory' by laypeople like us
when top scientists in the field have questioned it's origin

Disputed topic or some other name? Maybe

 

[ll74]

well, I live across the pond, and have far more confidence in Australian and NZ scientists.
They did a computational model and other research at Flinders University
and two other researchers in NZ too

Good for you then. Did you forget to include all the ones who say it's not man made? (There's more of them in NZ and Aus just as there are everywhere in the world...)

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Saying Luk is drunk while proving you're an idiot really doesn't help you, Willow.

WILLOW...LMAO.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

The USA unleashed covid and trump on the world and it's a shittier place because of it.

 

[mayfly13]

There's actually another source up there, and the reddit thread contains multiple additional sources to videos and informative sites.

But yah ...reddit.¯\(°_o)/¯

liked your comments re types of sources evidence etc. That was actually drilled into us in one of the weekly teachings from Critical thinking.

 

[ll74]

liked your comments re types of sources evidence etc. That was actually drilled into us in one of the weekly teachings from Critical thinking.

Yes, more sources are typically better than none...but also understanding that social networks aren't the sources themselves, but rather are the vehicle for posting sources is what I commented on.

I typically rely on virologists studies in the field of virology over those in other fields. You do you

 

[LittleDixie]

We know that labs around the world have been modifying existing viruses. The charitable explanation for gain a function research is that it helps us develop cures to mutations that may arise and understand the evolutionary process of a virus. In fact, Dr. Fauci is on record supporting this kind of research (

).

In fact, this research is so out in the open that all of the intelligence agencies are aware of it (unlike most citizens who had no idea this kind of research was even possible until Covid).

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence released an assessment in the summer stating that one U.S. intelligence agency assessed with “moderate confidence” that COVID-19 most likely emerged from a Chinese government lab in Wuhan, while four U.S. spy agencies and the National Intelligence Council believe with “low confidence” COVID-19 most likely has a natural origin.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...te-scientists-lending-it-credence-emails-show

WHO investigator (and President of EcoHealth Alliance (which partnered with the Wuhan Institute of Virology in the US funded PREDICT Program)) Peter Daszak claimed that there were no bats at the Wuhan Institute of virology. However, this later was proven through video evidence to be a lie.

Peter Daszak is the President of EcoHealth Alliance. His company was funded by the United States Agency for International Development in 2009 to do a number of things under the PREDICT Program ( https://www.usaid.gov/sites/default/files/documents/1864/predict-global-flyer-508.pdf ). This well meaning program was designed "to strengthen global capacity for detection and discovery of zoonotic viruses with pandemic potential." According to their literature they "made significant contributions to strengthening global surveillance and laboratory diagnostic capabilities for new and known viruses. Now working with partners in 31 countries, PREDICT is continuing to build platforms for disease surveillance and for identifying and monitoring pathogens that can be shared between animals and people." Much later (October 2021), the WHO would confirm that EcoHealth was performing gain a function research in China.

"A top NIH official admitted in a Wednesday letter that U.S. taxpayers funded gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan and revealed that EcoHealth Alliance, the U.S. non-profit that funneled NIH money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, was not transparent about the work it was doing.

In the letter to Representative James Comer (R., Ky.), Lawrence A. Tabak of the NIH cites a “limited experiment” that was conducted to test if “spike proteins from naturally occurring bat coronaviruses circulating in China were capable of binding to the human ACE2 receptor in a mouse model.” The laboratory mice infected with the modified bat virus “became sicker” than those infected with the unmodified bat virus."

"A previously unpublished EcoHealth grant proposal filed with NIAID, obtained by The Intercept, had already exposed that $599,000 of the total grant to the Wuhan Institute of Virology was for research designed to make viruses more dangerous and/or infectious."
https://news.yahoo.com/nih-admits-funding-gain-function-125103852.html
Click to expand...

So, we have a director of the NIH who advocates for gain of function research giving money to a company who requested a grant for gain of function research, at a lab that does gain of function research on bat coronaviruses in a town where an outbreak of a novel bat coronavirus emerges. A town without the bats that supposedly carried the virus.

 

[LittleDixie]

Peter Daszak is the president of EcoHealth Alliance. The same Eco Health Alliance that conducted experiments to see if "spike proteins from naturally occurring bat coronaviruses circulating in China were capable of binding to the human ACE2 receptor in a mouse model." ( https://news.yahoo.com/nih-admits-funding-gain-function-125103852.html )

And guess what the Covid 19 spike proteins interact with in our cells? Covid-19 interacts with human ACE2 receptors.

So, here's what we have. We have the NIH giving money to EcoHealth Alliance, and then EcoHealthAlliance conducting gain of function research on bat coronaviruses to make them more infectious to human ACE2 receptors.

This describes exactly what Covid is and how it works. Covid is a bat coronavirus that infects humans through the ACE2 receptors.

 

[LittleDixie]

"...we now know that the Wuhan Institute of Virology had an extensive collection of coronaviruses gathered over many years of foraging in the bat caves, and that many of them—including the closest known relative to the pandemic virus, SARS-CoV-2—came from a mineshaft where three men died from a suspected SARS-like disease in 2012. We know that the WIV was actively working with these viruses, using inadequate safety protocols, in ways that could have triggered the pandemic, and that the lab and Chinese authorities have gone to great lengths to conceal these activities.

...

Chief among these scientists was a biologist named Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance, a non-profit research group that ran a large international program to survey natural pathogens with the potential to cause a pandemic. Daszak had been collaborating for years with Shi Zhengli, the director of the Wuhan Institute of Virology and a renowned bat virologist. Daszak co-authored nearly a dozen papers with Shi and funneled at least $600,000 of U.S. government grants her way.

When the pandemic happened to break out on the doorstep of the lab with the largest collection of coronaviruses in the world, fueling speculation that the WIV might be involved, Daszak and 26 other scientists signed a letter that appeared in The Lancet on February 19, 2020. "We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin," it stated.

We now know, thanks to a Freedom of Information Act request, that Daszak orchestrated the letter to squelch talk of a lab leak. He drafted it, reached out to fellow scientists to sign it, and worked behind the scenes to make it seem that the letter represented the views of a broad range of scientists. "This statement will not have the EcoHealth Alliance logo on it and will not be identifiable as coming from any one organization or person," he wrote in his pitch to the co-signatories. Scientists whose work had overlapped with the WIV agreed not to sign it so they could "put it out in a way that doesn't link it back to our collaboration."

At the time, however, there was no hint of Daszak's organizing role. The letter helped make Daszak a ubiquitous presence in the media, where he called a lab-leak "preposterous," "baseless," and "pure baloney." He also attacked scientists who published evidence pointing to the lab. Part of the reason the lab theory made no sense, he argued, was because the Wuhan lab wasn't culturing any viruses remotely similar to SARS-CoV-2. (Daszak has not responded to Newsweek's request for comment.)

For a long time, Daszak was astonishingly influential. Few in the media questioned him or pointed out that his career and organization would be deeply damaged if it turned out his work had indirectly played a role in the pandemic...

When the Trump administration canceled EcoHealth Alliance contracts that would have spent millions on new virus research, 60 Minutes ran a segment that painted Daszak as a martyr to the right-wing conspiracy machine. For right-thinking people everywhere, it seemed like an easy call: The enemy of my enemy is my friend: thus, the lab-leak theory is bunk."
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-...oke-wuhan-lab-story-embarrassed-media-1596958

 

[rockcasbah]

“Pretty” convinced is the tell… first line.

And you all jump like stooges.

 

[ll74]

Sorry, any analysis that starts with "we all know..." Is immediately pleading to Confirmation bias.

 

[mayfly13]

So, we have a director of the NIH who advocates for gain of function research giving money to a company who requested a grant for gain of function research, at a lab that does gain of function research on bat coronaviruses in a town where an outbreak of a novel bat coronavirus emerges. A town without the bats that supposedly carried the virus.

nevermind the wave of racism, that this whole pinning on unsanitary Wet markets unleashed.
Chinese laypeople are as much victims as we all are
not the cause of the pandemic.