I think I figured out what Putin meant by Ukrainian 'neo-nazis':

mayfly13

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ZELENSKYY' LAW “ON THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF UKRAINE”, JULY 2021

Putin directly made direct references to Azunov and to the alleged genocide of Russians in Donbas.
But I think he also had Zelenskyy's Law “On the Indigenous Peoples of Ukraine” in mind.

Because I was just listening to this Russian pundit online, and she was saying that "Ukrainians look down upon us Russians, they call us Moscovites and mixed with Mongols. But we are the same." (me: 'huh'?)

So I googled the keywords, and came across this law.
This law, as Putin sees it severely limits the rights of Russian and other Ukrainian minorities
It's also an attempt to re-integrate Crimea into Ukraine.




QUOTES FROM ARTICLES EXPLAINING THE LAW AND IT's IMPLICATIONS
each well under 20%


"Why Putin is irritated at the bill on Ukraine’s indigenous peoples:
https://uacrisis.org/en/ukrainians-russians-not-one-people

"On May 18, 2021, the Day of Remembrance of Victims of the Deportation of the Crimean Tatar People, President Zelenskyy's introduced the draft law on indigenous peoples to the Parliament. The bill does not say a word about Russians. The bill defines Crimean Tatars, Karaites, and Krymchaks as the indigenous peoples of Ukraine.
By legal definition they are “an indigenous ethnic community native to the territory of Ukraine, they have their unique language and culture, traditional, social, cultural, or representation bodies, they self-identify as an indigenous people of Ukraine,” and they do not have a state of their own outside Ukraine.

Putin’s reaction:
“a strong and serious hit on the Russian people overall. To speak of Russians as a non-indigenous people of Ukraine is not just incorrect, but also ridiculous and stupid, it contradicts historical facts, Division into indigenous, first-class, second-class categories of people and so on – this completely smacks of the theory and practice of Nazi Germany,” the Russian President proceeded.

Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry:
"Russians are a national minority, not an indigenous people."




Why did President Zelensky need this law and how will it affect the country’s interethnic relations?
https://culturico.com/2021/12/20/th...ne-what-does-it-bring-to-national-minorities/

"The law guaranteed unprecedented support for these National minorities, including protection from any form of discrimination and the right of education on their own language. However, unexpectedly, only three peoples of multinational Ukraine were declared indigenous, and most of them do not live in the territory under Kyiv’s control. The point is that Article 1.2 of the new Law includes the Crimean Tatars, Karaites and Krymchaks among the indigenous peoples of Ukraine only. They all live compactly in Crimea, which Ukraine has de facto no control over.

What was the goal of this Law? It was needed to increase the legitimacy and strengthen the international position of a Crimean Tatar non-governmental organisation with a strong pro-Ukrainian stance – the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people. It is also important in terms of Ukraine’s diplomatic initiatives aimed at creating a mechanism for putting the “Crimean question” back on the international agenda and, in the long term, for returning Ukraine’s control over Crimea.

The Law absolutely does not apply to national minorities in the territory currently controlled by the Ukrainian government. However, Kiev obviously underestimates the possible negative reaction of other national minorities (Poles, Bulgarians, Greeks, Romanians and Moldovans, Jews and, of course, Russians), which, unlike the three Crimean peoples, have indeed been living in mainland Ukraine for centuries, all of whom have not been granted the status of Indigenous Peoples and therefore also the grandiose rights that flow from it."
 
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Violation of Lit's quoting guidelines...

If you can't say it, then don't display it.
 
They're from two Very long different articles, and each quote is well under 20% of the article.
 
I'm not sure that finding logic in Putin's position is worthwhile.

Though it would make sense that he'd be pissed about something this stupid.
 
I'm not pro-Putin.
What he did was criminal, and the risk to the rest of Eastern Europe is huge.

But in order to deal or negociate with the Enemy, we need to understand fully what motivates them. Not just the bad, their more understandable motives too.
 
I'm not pro-Putin.
What he did was criminal, and the risk to the rest of Eastern Europe is huge.

But in order to deal or negociate with the Enemy, we need to understand fully what motivates them. Not just the bad, their more understandable motives too.
I personally think that understanding someone who makes up shit to reinforce their bullshit is fruitless (i.e. election fraud in the US), but I get where you're coming from. The thing about bullshit is that it typically has some twisted interpretation at the root.
 
But il, most of us are also in shock because 'Boom' we've been landed this shocking invasion on our lap, as if it came out of nowwhere.

It didn't. The ready to spill tensions have been there for almost a year, Russia started amassing troops since April. Zelensky brought the law to Parliament in May.

The Press did a piss-poor job at informing us, they wrote almost nothing about it until November.

I need closure, to understand all that happened last year, what each party claims (even if bullshit).
And I think others do too.
 
But il, most of us are also in shock because 'Boom' we've been landed this shocking invasion on our lap, as if it came out of nowwhere.
It didn't. The tensions have been there for almost a year, Russia started amassing troops since April. Zelensky brought the law to Parliament in May.

The Press did a piss-poor job at informing us, they wrote almost nothing about it until November.

I need closure, to understand all that happened last year, what each party claims (even if bullshit).
And I think others do too.
The press ignored Ukraine, for the most part, since 2014. There's been shit going on there since then.
 
The press ignored Ukraine, for the most part, since 2014. There's been shit going on there since then.

Remember how LupusDei used to go on and on about Russia and the contentious history between Lithuania and Russia about a year or so ago?

At that time I (and probably others too) used to think that it was a quirk of his, he was being patriotic.

In hindsight, I realize it wasn't a quirk. LD was legitimately afraid of the tension boiling on his doorstep at the time.
We didn't know because most media didn't even mention it. Baltic and Ukrainian press, obviously did
 
Remember how LupusDei used to go on and on about Russia and the contentious history between Lithuania and Russia about a year or so ago?

At that time I (and probably others too) used to think that it was a quirk of his, he was being patriotic.

In hindsight, I realize it wasn't a quirk. LD was legitimately afraid of the tension boiling on his doorstep at the time.
We didn't know because most media didn't even mention it. Baltic and Ukrainian press, obviously did
yep.. absolutely. And now the media will give us stories of the past few years to fill in the gaps, and will be advertised as insightful and personal to Ukraine.

But don't look at the Uyghurs
 
I'm not pro-Putin.
What he did was criminal, and the risk to the rest of Eastern Europe is huge.

But in order to deal or negociate with the Enemy, we need to understand fully what motivates them. Not just the bad, their more understandable motives too.
Putin does not want to negotiate. Putin is one man and an autocrat. If you were to poll russians I believe they wouldn't approve of Putin's excuse to destroy Ukraine. One man having absolute over people's lives is always dangerous. Saddam Hussein and Hitler had similar demented aspirations of greatness using the excuse of grabbing land they believed belonged to the mother/father land.

To try to understand what motivates autocrats like Putin needs a psychological evaluation not an understanding of some demented and twisted historical background or explanation. Putin had the power to mobilize and did because of illusions of grandeur. Putin is a narcissist on steroids and out of reach of reason. He is totally apathetic!
 
yep.. absolutely. And now the media will give us stories of the past few years to fill in the gaps, and will be advertised as insightful and personal to Ukraine.

But don't look at the Uyghurs

Yes! That too!

I recall that there was a week or so of hoooha in the press about the uygurs camps about two years ago. After that week of fiery debates, we all forgot.

Do you know how they popped again into my mind?
Through watching the channel of a youtube guy who posts entertaining funny stuff about China.
He once talked about how families are being split and men sent to re-education camps.

What's wrong with our Mainstream press?
They're asleep at the wheel.
I think they're too focused on pleasing their donors, or on cluckbaits.
 
Yes! That too!

I recall that there was a week or so of hoooha in the press about the uygurs camps about two years ago. After that week of fiery debates, we all forgot.

Do you know how they popped again into my mind?
Through watching the channel of a youtube guy who posts entertaining funny stuff about China.
He once talked about how families are being split and men sent to re-education camps.

What's wrong with our Mainstream press?
They're asleep at the wheel.
I think they're too focused on pleasing their donors, or on cluckbaits.
They just go for the clicks...have to make the $$$.

If the public pushed them, they'd cover the stories.
 
I personally think that understanding someone who makes up shit to reinforce their bullshit is fruitless (i.e. election fraud in the US), but I get where you're coming from. The thing about bullshit is that it typically has some twisted interpretation at the root.

I think that Putin's undoing were the refugees.
He can rationalize everything else, but not them.

Invading a sovereign country is bad, killing civilians too.
But we've seen that before in the Middle East.

What shocked us and woke us up was seeing the masses of terrified refugees.
One million in a week!
And how terrified must you be that you leave behind all your belongings, and take just a suitcase?
They're scared to death of Putin.
 
I think that Putin's undoing were the refugees.
He can rationalize everything else, but not them.

Invading a sovereign country is bad, killing civilians too.
But we've seen that before in the Middle East.

What shocked us and woke us up was seeing the masses of terrified refugees.
One million in a week!
And how terrified must you be that you leave behind all your belongings, and take just a suitcase?
They're scared to death of Putin.
Putin doesn’t care about refugees. Putin’s undoing will come from force not public opinion. Tearing down the structure that gives him power is the only way to topple him. Complete and suffocating sanctions, eliminating his wealth and ability to create wealth. Ukraine will fall but the west has to continue the complete destruction of his wealth, can do that without firing a shot. His circle of support will dwindle eventually, being ostracized from the world may not affect him but will affect everyone around him, the pressure will come from within his inner circle. IMHO
 
Putin doesn’t care about refugees. Putin’s undoing will come from force not public opinion. Tearing down the structure that gives him power is the only way to topple him. Complete and suffocating sanctions, eliminating his wealth and ability to create wealth. Ukraine will fall but the west has to continue the complete destruction of his wealth, can do that without firing a shot. His circle of support will dwindle eventually, being ostracized from the world may not affect him but will affect everyone around him, the pressure will come from within his inner circle. IMHO

I'm trully in shock, icanhelp.

I used to watch RT shows for years, shows which hosted top-notch American and British intellectuals.
They were criticizing neoliberalism and the West, but their criticisms were pertinent.
I thought that they were doing it only for PR or to make Russia popular/The West unpopular, and Putin was quirky..

But now I realize that they were doing it in preparation for 'z day'.
Whereas in the past they were praising socialism, now (I watched them through yandex) they (the American and British hosts)are talking former Soviet Union all the time. Even their banner changed about a month ago, from 'Russia/World' to "Russia-Former Soviet States / World'.
And they're dressing the 'operation' in Ukraine as some sort of 'shaking the shackles'

I feel like I'm watching a sleeper cells that got fully re-activated for attack, a week ago.
 
I hope you're right, that his fall will come from within his circles.
I've seen the uneasy body language.
 
Note that the law is AFTER the Russian invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. It is a response to people living in Ukraine who support Moscow sometimes in an armed conflict.
 
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