How The United States Ended Up With Two Right-Wing Parties

[pecksniff]

Well worth a view.

 

[Champakian]

Somebody got their free crack pipe...

 

[WillJ8787]

Well worth a view.

Yes, this is correct...the best obvious evidence for this was the complete shut down of the "Feel the Bern" movement in 2020, that, in my opinion, had a popular movement comparible to Trump's.

It was totally shut down by the way more right leaning Democrats, DNC, The Clinton and Pelosi machines(money raising ability).

 

[coati]

In a nation based on the concept of one-dollar-one-vote and with a human species conditioned to instant gratification, this is the natural result. Both parties receive the bulk of their funding from corporations that are much more focused on the next year's stock dividends than on the next generation's quality of life.

Both parties end up consuming the resources of a finite Earth as if they are infinite. Both parties worship the God of eternal economic growth. Both parties elevate corporate profits above a sustainable quality of life for humans in the long term.

 

[GothTalk]

So either the left has started ignoring what left and right are.

OR they like many on the left think "Not left enough for my PERSONAL liking means not left at all.".

The video doesn't seem to know what the fuck left and right are.

Peck, seems to consider anything not left enough for his personal liking to not be left, like the DNC, even though they are by common and academic definitions a left wing party.

 

[GothTalk]

In a nation based on the concept of one-dollar-one-vote and with a human species conditioned to instant gratification, this is the natural result. Both parties receive the bulk of their funding from corporations that are much more focused on the next year's stock dividends than on the next generation's quality of life.

Both parties end up consuming the resources of a finite Earth as if they are infinite. Both parties worship the God of eternal economic growth. Both parties elevate corporate profits above a sustainable quality of life for humans in the long term.

So what does ANY of that have to do with Democrats being left or right wing??

Do you know what makes the left, the left??

 

[GothTalk]

Yes, this is correct...the best obvious evidence for this was the complete shut down of the "Feel the Bern" movement in 2020, that, in my opinion, had a popular movement compatible to Trump's.

It was totally shut down by the way more right leaning Democrats, DNC, The Clinton and Pelosi machines(money raising ability).

Surprise surprise.... WillJ has no fucking clue what the left is.

Also seemingly part of the "not left enough for my liking = right wing!!!" myopic perspective crowd.

 

[coati]

The Goth Boy has trouble finding posters who want to play with him these days. So many Deplorables are posting these days, and Goth Boy gets lost in the shuffle.

BTW, expect lots more of the 24/7 Deplorable propaganda threads. This is an election year, and they continue to follow the credo that if you repeat the same lies over and over again, you will gain power.

 

[GothTalk]

The Goth Boy has trouble finding posters who want to play with him these days. So many Deplorables are posting these days, and Goth Boy gets lost in the shuffle.

LOL, thought so, you have no idea what the left is.

BTW, expect lots more of the 24/7 Deplorable propaganda threads. This is an election year, and they continue to follow the credo that if you repeat the same lies over and over again, you will gain power.

A democrat projection.... thus they are losing power faster than they can come up with excuses as to why they deserve continued support.

 

[pecksniff]

Yes, this is correct...the best obvious evidence for this was the complete shut down of the "Feel the Bern" movement in 2020, that, in my opinion, had a popular movement compatible to Trump's.

It was totally shut down by the way more right leaning Democrats, DNC, The Clinton and Pelosi machines(money raising ability).

Early in 2016, many voters were wavering between Trump and Sanders, seeing both as "anti-establishment" candidates.

The difference was, Sanders really meant it.

 

[BidudeinWi]

Well worth a view.

I could give AF about your LibTard Lunacy! GET BACK ON UOUR MEDS, for fucks sake!

 

[pecksniff]

Surprise surprise.... WillJ has no fucking clue what the left is.

Also seemingly part of the "not left enough for my liking = right wing!!!" myopic perspective crowd.

Leftism:

Leftist is widely used in US politics to refer to socialism and anti-capitalist ideologies, although it is also often mistakenly applied to liberals, which can cause confusion and resentment, since there is a vast difference between the two groups. For anyone who studies politics with rigor, the conflation of "leftist" and "liberal" is truly infuriating; the American right-wing talking point machine refers to anyone "left of center-right" (e.g. Hillary Clinton, Al Franken), as a "far-left" politician or pundit, further confusing political discourse. Indeed, the nomenclature of US politics is so skewed as to be practically unrecognizable to anyone from outside the US.

Far left

The term far left is a label used for political movements, parties, and organizations that champion the abolition of private property and "equality of conditions", i.e. recognises the differences in ability and need of individuals but does not allow these differences to be turned into power. Most of these movements fall under the label of either communist (for which there are an absurd number of "subdivisions"), left-wing anarchist, or sometimes (though somewhat rarely today) socialist. Hard greens may be labeled far-left. If you hear it in American politics, bear in mind the possibility that it could be just being used as a snarl word to describe any liberal, or at least any liberal who doesn't kowtow to mainstream consensus politics in Washington.

Some leftists wish to overthrow capitalism through revolution because they believe that bourgeois democracy is a sham, designed only to keep the rich in their places of privilege, while others believe in achieving a socialist society through democratic means. There are many different forms of leftism, as reflected in such terms as Marxist, Marxist-Leninist, Stalinist, Trotskyite, neo-Trostkyite, Maoist, democratic socialist, libertarian socialist, market socialism anarchist, anarcho-syndicalism, De Leonist, council communist, guild socialist, communalism, etc., not to mention various modern and postmodern theoretical schools that seem to exist mainly in academic circles, such as deconstructionism, left- or post-feminism, Critical Theory, and the Frankfurt School (sometimes so-called “Academical Left”). Many of these groups have a fierce rivalry with each other, such as the Leninists with libertarian socialists, and the Stalinists and Maoists with just about everybody else.

Common ideas:

The abolition of private property (property used to earn capital), but not personal property (property not used to earn capital).
The abolition of class society, meaning no social classes that have power over others.
The abolition of the state. Marxists contend a temporary, transitional state is necessary to protect the revolution while anarchists believe all states will eventually become corrupt and will never willingly give up power.
Specifically for anarchists, the abolition of all forms of hierarchy, except those that can be justified (e.g. temporary and democratic/by consensus).
For all non-market socialists, the abolition of markets (ideally, goods would be instead be distributed based on need).
For market socialists, the democratisation of markets to act like decentral planning
Opposition to traditional religions, ideologies, and all other philosophies that promote inequality (but there are some religious leftists).
Internationalism, however the Stalinist idea of "Socialism in one country" caused some far-left movements to become highly nationalistic.
The best way to obtain these goals is often seen as revolution; however, some leftists believe in gradual reform instead.
Automation under capitalism will cause increasing inequality as everyone loses their job. However, it is hoped that automation under anarchism or communism will very nearly abolish the need for labor, allowing people the free time to explore their own interests.

Not far left

Like the label far-right, the term is oftentimes used inappropriately and pejoratively to movements that are not actually of the extreme left, such as:

Social Democracy - As social democrats accept the presence of a widespread market system, private property, and some degree of class inequality they are not far-left. This label is even more absurd when applied to "Third Way" social democrats who are essentially centrists.
Social Liberalism - As social liberals are even more toned down than old-styled social democrats (as they do not advocate for nationalization of any business) it's really hard to see how they are "far-left" in any meaningful sense of the word.
Juche - This one's actually debatable. Most scholars today believe North Korea's ideology is actually much closer to ethnic fascism than communism. However, North Korea has kept its Stalinist-era command economy mostly the same with only limited market reforms and mostly state ownership of property. Therefore it could be seen as either a form of state socialism that's heavily nationalistic, or as a form of radical ethnonationalism (fascism) that's also socialistic (see Third Position).
Nazism - Nazism is a form of fascism which is inherently far-right. While the Nazis did enact some policies that could be seen as "left" by the US political sphere, their stance on ultra-nationalism, racial superiority, their promotion of social inequality, etc. makes them far-right. One must also remember that while the name NSDAP means "National Socialist German Workers' Party", and "socialist" and "workers" are words usually associated with the far-left, wingnuts like to ignore that "national" is a far-right "patriotic" term in Germany; further muddying the issue is that German right-wingers in the aftermath of World War I attempted to redefine "socialism" as a right-wing ideology heavily influenced by the writings of theorist Oswald Spengler. It is telling when the only party with "national" in its name is the neo-Nazi NPD. Even the DVU, REP, pro-civil movement, Die Rechte (The Right) and AfD avoid describing themselves as "national", preferring softer terms such as "German", "republican" and "liberal" instead. Economists also rate Nazi Germany as centrist in its economic stance as its main policy was protectionism, made with a return to mercantilism in mind, and they hated both communists and capitalists (well, the Jewish ones at least- they generally didn't mind German ones). One should however take note that this isn't all that different from the economic desires of the current European far-right; political parties such as the Party For Freedom and Front National promote similar economic policies.

 

[WillJ8787]

So either the left has started ignoring what left and right are.

OR they like many on the left think "Not left enough for my PERSONAL liking means not left at all.".

The video doesn't seem to know what the fuck left and right are.

Peck, seems to consider anything not left enough for his personal liking to not be left, like the DNC, even though they are by common and academic definitions a left wing party.

Lol...no, only you don't know what left and right are.

Raise your left arm...it's the one on the left.
Raise your right arm... it's the one on the right.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The differences between the Democrat Party and the Republican Party

Well worth a view.

I am always irritated when someone of any political persuasion makes a controversial statement, and then expects me to click on a web address for confirmation of the statement.

Anyone can find something on the internet that they like. I would appreciate it if they present the argument in their own words, and follow it with the web address.

Those who cannot do that indicate that they do not really understand the argument themselves. The internet should be used to document factual assertions made in arguments of one's own composition.

Sometimes I will write an abridgment of an argument I disagree with, and explain why I disagree with it.

That said, there are important differences between the Democrats and the Republicans. Those differences are made more complex because each party is a coalition of groups that disagree with each other.

The Republican Party is the party of whites. At the top are affluent business executives and business owners. These do not need the government for much. For them the important issue is taxes. They want tax cuts; they fear tax increases.

There are not enough of these to win elections, so the GOP appeals to the social concerns of lower middle class whites. Lower middle class whites do need the government, and usually know it. They support domestic spending programs that obviously benefit them, such as Social Security, Medicare, minimum wage laws, unemployment compensation, and so on. Nevertheless, they vote Republican because for them social issues like crime, race, and immigration are more important.

The Democrat Party is a multi racial party dominated by well educated, well paid professionals. These lack the public enthusiasm affluent Republicans express for tax cuts for the rich, but they do not really mind, because they benefit from those tax cuts. They are liberal on social issues, generally indifferent to religion, and supportive of gay rights. They are not concerned with crime because they have spent their lives living, going to school, and working in safe neighborhoods. The great majority have never been victims of serious crimes, and do not think they ever be. The affluent Democrat professionals are usually white. In addition, non whites and Jews usually vote Democrat. These do not trust the white nationalism of the GOP. I have known and liked many Orientals and Hispanics. I have never known one who liked blacks. Blacks in turn are the main offenders in hate crimes against Orientals.

For an affluent Democrat diversity is dining at ethnic restaurants and a Chinese American family living next door, where the son attends MIT, and the daughter studies classical ballet.

For a white working class Republican, diversity is having attended black majority public schools. It is having been a victim of black and perhaps Hispanic criminals. It is having lost job opportunities to affirmative action programs.

 

[pecksniff]

There are really only two important differences between the Dems and the Pubs:

1. Both parties are owned by the corporations, but the Dems are not wholly owned.

2. Since the 1970s, the GOP has evolved into a true ideological party, while the Dems remain a coalition of interest groups.

At present, the ideological GOP is undergoing an internal struggle between two ideologies: The Old Guard's simply pro-biz politics, and the Tea Party/Trumpers' nationalist populism.

Both factions only pay lip-service to the religious right, which really has no salient issues, any more, other than abortion, and really only matters in state and local politics. Nobody outside the hard core of the RR, any more, takes seriously demands for school prayer, objections to teaching evolution, putting down gay rights, etc., etc. And the RR only gets traction with abortion as an issue because the RCC is for once on its side.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The words "left" and "right" were first used politically during the French Revolution. When the National Assembly was viewed from the rear, delegates representing the monarchy, the aristocracy, and the established Roman Catholic Church sat on the right. Delegates representing everyone else sat on the left. In practice, most of them were businessmen.

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Purely in reference to political opinion, "tending in favor of freedom and democracy," [liberalism] dates from c. 1801, from French libéral. In English the label at first was applied by opponents (often in the French form and with suggestions of foreign lawlessness) to the party more favorable to individual political freedoms.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/liberal

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Initially liberals supported the early French Revolution, although not the Reign of Terror, and the tyranny of Napoleon Bonaparte, which were later developments. Generally speaking they supported laizzez faire capitalism, and the economic interests of the business community.

When it became apparent that powerful corporations could threaten the well being of ordinary citizens, liberals and the left moved to the left, and looked to the government as a counter weight to the business community.

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From 1840 in the general sense [conservatism was] "disposed to retain and maintain what is established, opposed to innovation and change," or, in a negative sense "opposed to progress."

As a modern political tradition, "antagonistic to change in the institutions of a country," often especially "opposed to changes toward pure democracy," conservatism traces to Edmund Burke's opposition to the French Revolution (1790), but the word conservative is not found in his writing. It was coined by his French disciples (such as Chateaubriand, who titled his journal defending clerical and political restoration "Le Conservateur").

Conservative as the name of a British political faction first appeared in an 1830 issue of the "Quarterly Review," in an unsigned article sometimes attributed to John Wilson Croker. It replaced Tory (q.v.) by 1843, reflecting both a change from the pejorative name (in use for 150 years) and repudiation of some reactionary policies.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/conservative

---------

Originally conservatism defined itself as opposing the French Revolution. In time it came to defend the interests of businessmen, although most of them had supported the French Revolution at the time.

 

[phrodeau]

Lol...no, only you don't know what left and right are.

Raise your left arm...it's the one on the left.
Raise your right arm... it's the one on the right.

Tell him to raise his right arm and he will raise his left, because nobody can tell him what to do.

 

[GothTalk]

Leftism:

Yup.

Even by the leftistWiki of ignorant fuckwits, Democrats are left wing.

You're just being dishonest.

Lol...no, only you don't know what left and right are.

Raise your left arm...it's the one on the left.
Raise your right arm... it's the one on the right.

Didn't then you did know what the left was.

 

[pecksniff]

Yup.

Even by the leftistWiki of ignorant fuckwits, Democrats are left wing.

You're just being dishonest.

Look at the excerpt again. The Dems are not even social democrats.

 

[GothTalk]

There are really only two important differences between the Dems and the Pubs:

1. Both parties are owned by the corporations, but the Dems are not wholly owned.

2. Since the 1970s, the GOP has evolved into a true ideological party, while the Dems remain a coalition of interest groups.

At present, the ideological GOP is undergoing an internal struggle between two ideologies: The Old Guard's simply pro-biz politics, and the Tea Party/Trumpers' nationalist populism.

Both factions only pay lip-service to the religious right, which really has no salient issues, any more, other than abortion, and really only matters in state and local politics. Nobody outside the hard core of the RR, any more, takes seriously demands for school prayer, objections to teaching evolution, putting down gay rights, etc., etc. And the RR only gets traction with abortion as an issue because the RCC is for once on its side.

Literally everything about this is backwards and wrong.

#1 Neither party is owned, individuals in both parties are owned with Democrats pumping Wall St., Hollywood, big pharma/HC and Silicon Valley dicks like their existence depends on it for over 20 years now. Anti-Capitalist thugs all day every day.

#2 Is simply backwards. The (D)'eez got more ideological and have continued down that path until now they are just acting like psycho tyrants.

As for the faction war in the GOP, that was over years ago....the religious conservatives, the not so pro-biz "old guard" as you call them have lost, the nationalist neo-liberals (tea party Trumpsters) have won.

 

[pecksniff]

#1 Neither party is owned, individuals in both parties are owned . . .

What's the difference? It's like a paper dragon in a Chinese New Year parade -- there is no dragon, only the marchers inside it.

with Democrats pumping Wall St., Hollywood, big pharma/HC and Silicon Valley dicks like their existence depends on it for over 20 years now. Anti-Capitalist thugs all day every day.

That would make them pro-capitalist thugs.

#2 Is simply backwards. The (D)'eez got more ideological and have continued down that path until now they are just acting like psycho tyrants.

And that is simply detached from reality. For the past three decades it has always been the Dems who try to reach across the aisle and the Pubs who say no. The Dems offer compromise, the Pubs move further right, the Dems hasten to catch up -- it's a ratchet effect.

As for the faction war in the GOP, that was over years ago....the religious conservatives, the not so pro-biz "old guard" as you call them have lost, the nationalist neo-liberals (tea party Trumpsters) have won.

No, the faction war is still going on.

 

[GothTalk]

What's the difference?

With regard to corporate sponsorship? Just which corporations are supporting which congress critters and thus party.

That would make them pro-capitalist thugs.

Government wealth redistribution and interference in the economy is NOT capitalism.

Again with your detached from reality, 2+2=9!!! bullshit.

And that is simply detached from reality.

For the past three decades it has always been the Dems who try to reach across the aisle and the Pubs who say no.

Yes, and no.

They only so no until they can't or decide to compromise.

There has been zero pull to the right, there STILL is no pull to the right.

 

[pecksniff]

Government wealth redistribution and interference in the economy is NOT capitalism.

Of course it is -- whenever that is what the capitalists want.

 

[GothTalk]

Of course it is -- whenever that is what the capitalists want.

No it's not.

Capitalist, by definition, don't want a government managed economy.

Words mean things..... you need to look up the word capitalism, because you very clearly don't know what it means, or more likely are just continuing to be wildly dishonest.

 

[colddiesel]

Pecksmith . All social democrat parties, all of them, without any exceptions are conservative. Their prime ambition is to hang on to what they have, and to grow their interests incrementally. It is small C conservatism, non- ideological and driven by self interest.

The social democrats in Germany and France for example are the same, as is the British Labour Party. In 1992 UK Labour fought an election on the basis of a left wing manifesto ("the longest Suicide note in History"); they lost convincingly to a tired, worn out Tory government. They repeated the effort in 2019 and again got wiped out. Similarly in Oz, the Labor party will go into an election in about 8 weeks time with a programme which Joe Manchin would be happy to endorse.

The so called "Progressives" in the USA account for about 6.8% of the D vote, a tiny number considering the noise they make. Their main political impact is in serving the GOP which obviously exaggerates their importance in order to scare voters to support them.

The biggest difference between USA and elsewhere is not ideology but funding, especially since 'Citizens United."