writing in first person? and other writing tips

[LupusDei]

Just musing: how to show the reader unreliability of a first person narrator who is full of himself and, say, believes in magic in supposedly contemporary setting? (To clarify, supposedly all the magic happens in the narrator's overactive imagination, but we can't really know.)

 

[ElectricBlue]

That's true of third person omniscient, but I think this is a POV style that has really fallen out of favor. Flitting around between people's different thoughts and internal monologues is tough both to write and to read, and you don't get the clarity and characterization you get from a real POV character. Third person tends to be third person limited, or "over the shoulder" camera to borrow a gaming term.

I'll beg to differ on that, for myself at least, and use someone else's words to back my case:

I've always been partial to first person narration for conveying the intimate details of a character's inner life. But this story wonderfully shows how third person narration can be used to convey the inner activity of two characters, even during the intricate steps of their dance. We see the evening not as we would see it in real life---where we know our own feelings but can only guess at our partner's---but privy to both sides, able to see the uncertainty and hopefulness and playfulness and arousal on both sides as flirtation turns to courtship and courtship turns to foreplay. It's two intimate stories, really, interwoven at every scene. A tour-de-force of patient, loving, doubly imagined detail.

 

[billrokra]

I think writing in first person restricts the author to describe events and situations where she might not be involved or present. In the third person, you are far more free from that point.

However, in the first person, it would help the writer to identify more with the character she has adopted, and descriptions could flow much more easily. This is more true when you write erotic stories.

Agree very much with this. First person has greater immediacy when describing emotions and thoughts, as compared to third person. Third person makes it much easier to communicate plot. It's horses for courses and whatever works works, but it makes life easier if you know in advance whether your story is more character-driven or plot driven.

 

[yukonnights]

yukonnights has been experimenting with first POV, but rapidly changing from one person to the other. I always expected it would be a mess, but I can't deny it's far better than I'd expected. Check his latest work, if you're interested (e.g. Unexpected Love.)

It isn't something I would do myself, but for those into trying something different...

Thanks for the mention Ruben. As many here may recall, my interest in First Person POV really started with an interest in Close POV after reading some done in that. (I still haven't mastered that ) IMO, First Person is by far the most intimate point of view. KiethD and I have discussed this and I recommend reading some of his stories.

I did that with my first work I posted here. Walker Brigade. I switched POVs a lot among five or six characters.

I need to read that story. The ones I've done primarily involve the two main characters. But, done right, I don't see a problem with more.

I try to remember to turn my signature line off when posting here to reduce redundancy. I'll leave it on for this, and as I recall that Valentine's Day 1983 is done in First Person with alternating interior thoughts & emotions. It's a hetero theme whereas the one Ruben linked to is a Lesbian love story.

 

[RWesson]

Thanks for the mention Ruben. As many here may recall, my interest in First Person POV really started with an interest in Close POV after reading some done in that. (I still haven't mastered that ) IMO, First Person is by far the most intimate point of view. KiethD and I have discussed this and I recommend reading some of his stories.

One issue I've seen with First Person is purely in the feedback vs the back story I have for the story. The Narrator/MC doesn't know the motivations for actions of others.

For example, in "Finding", the wife of the MC is having an affair with another woman. The backstory includes a bio of the other woman, including her recent divorce her previous bisexuality her loneliness and submissiveness, and how the affair started. It even includes why a specific thing the MC's wife does is something they would enjoy. Feedback, because there is no reasonable way to include that in the narrator's knowledge in the story, calls her a bull dyke, "she would never do that", etc. The wife considered her actions with her lover to be an extension of her relationship with her husband, albeit one he's not (supposedly) yet ready to know about. But the narrator cannot know that in the time the story runs. Exposition to explain it would be ... unrealistic in context, and the story ends before it can be learned. I can write a follow-up from the wife's POV, of course, and may... eventually. But I have other stories to write, as well, and limited time to write them when, from the narrator's POV (but perhaps not all readers), "Finding" is complete.

I have a similar issue with "Butter Pecan". There, some minor exposition was not only possible, but necessary for the main plot, and fit in organically, but without giving motive (the characters expositing knew the motive, and didn't discuss it). On the other hand, a key background character needed more serious exposition by a character close to the narrator to explain the hatred of that character for "the villan". It was awkward, but necessary, yet feedback from some felt it needed to be removed. I don't see how the story works without that, personally, since it explains multiple characters motivations later for a series of major plot points.

So First Person is intimate, and allows for, to me, a more personal story, but it means that the writer (me in these cases) is the only person who has that omniscient understanding that some readers want. Which I realize can be frustrating to some readers.

 

[yukonnights]

One issue I've seen with First Person is purely in the feedback vs the back story I have for the story. The Narrator/MC doesn't know the motivations for actions of others...

So First Person is intimate, and allows for, to me, a more personal story, but it means that the writer (me in these cases) is the only person who has that omniscient understanding that some readers want. Which I realize can be frustrating to some readers.

There are several tools for we who write stories, and each has it's benefits. With stories built around a couple of characters, the use of an "intimate" First Person is relatively easy. This includes; interior-dialogue/thoughts/feelings/emotions. Since most of my stories are focused on two or three main characters, this works well for me and is an important tool. IMO, the thoughts, feelings, emotions are the most important element for good erotica.

For my stories with a larger number of characters, I fall back on the third-person omniscient. However, some all-knowing 'god' in the sky telling the reader about what 'Suzie and Ralph' are feeling and thinking is by design more distant — and thus, less intimate.

The difference between; '… as he presses his hard flesh into me, I feel the tingling radiate outward … as he begins, I once again drift into that state of bliss and security.'

and; '… as Ralph presses his hard flesh into Suzie, she feels the tingling radiate outward … as he begins, she once again drifts into that state of bliss and security.

IMO, #1 is much closer and intimate.

However, I especially like third person for period pieces and am currently writing a Western Outlaw "love story" using that. It covers an extended period of time, settings, and a number of characters. The title to that one is; The Legend of Bo Keap — outlaws and women of the night in the old west

So, let's say; the right tool for the story is what we should choose.

 

[NotWise]

One issue I've seen with First Person is purely in the feedback vs the back story I have for the story. The Narrator/MC doesn't know the motivations for actions of others.

How do you know the motivations of others in real life? You don't always know, and you don't always need to know. If you do know and it isn't obvious, then they tell you, or they tell someone, and someone tells you.

Sometimes understanding a character's motivation can be an epiphany at or near the climax of a story. In other cases, I usually don't have trouble constructing dialog that lays out their motivations. Sometimes you might need to introduce a character for that dialog and little else.

Dialog is a major tool, especially in first person.

 

[jaykaythree]

In the first person, it would help the writer to identify more with the character she has adopted, and descriptions could flow much more easily. This is more true when you write erotic stories.

That's what I'm all about ... first person, getting inside the characters' skin.

 

[AlinaX]

That's what I'm all about ... first person, getting inside the characters' skin.

Huh. I just read an AmethystMare story where one character literally gets inside the skin of the other.

 

[jaykaythree]

I just read an AmethystMare story where one character literally gets inside the skin of the other.

Now that is a twist.

 

[Lifestyle66]

...
But you pay for this intimacy with a drastically reduced "field of view". ....

In my first person POV stories, I sometimes shift view by saying "My wife later told me what happened when she was alone with..." Then I make a scene change to that of my wife's.

So, the majority of my stories are first person, But, I do need be careful with the possibility of implying what others think. I try to avoid that by using dialog so people can describe their feelings.

 

[Quinn_McMullen]

When writing in first person, make sure you limit descriptions to what the character can actually perceive. An oft-made newbie mistake is writing other's feelings, thoughts or - in the most egregious moments - even events which their narrator can't be privy to.

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The most important advice is this: Whatever the resident codgers (including me) say - write first, edit later and try to have fun. You can only improve.

One way of getting another's feelings and thoughtd into your story is through dialogue. I find good dialogue to be fun to write and really able to provide insight into how your characters think.

Blind Justice is absolutely correct. I would add - write for you, edit much more than you ever thought you should, and absolutely have fun.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Hey there! I'm a new writer and I'm looking to submit my first story hopefully soon. It will be in the lesbian category, and I am writing it in first person, despite reading that first person can be hard for new writers. I do have experience with writing in regards to roleplaying and non sexual stories, but I do want to see if anyone has any tips when it comes to writing in first person? Any common mistakes you see in stories? If you also write lesbian stories, that's a plus because even though I'm writing about my own personal experience with a woman, I want to make sure the emotions and feelings come across clearly! I really appreciate any kind of help.

I find writing in the first person the easiest to write. I assume the main character's role in my head, I try to think how he would react and tell my story accordingly. I personally hate the 2nd person... I won't even read them. Third person or the all-knowing is also a god place. You can have a decent dialog and tell the story.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I strongly endorse everything Blind Justice wrote. That's all excellent advice. I'd add a couple of things:

1. If you choose 1st person POV, then in addition to limiting your "field of view" you are limiting your education and vocabulary to whatever it is probable the character/narrator has. The narration should be consistent with the background of the character. So first person POV is a little bit less flexible in this way from third person POV, because in third person the narrator does not have to speak in the voice of the main character.

2. Think about WHY you want to choose one POV over the other. Some people feel that first person POV is more initimate. I'm not so convinced of that. I think third person limited can, if done right, achieve nearly everything that first person can. One very good reason to choose first person, however, is if an important part of the story is the character/narrator being surprised by events in the story. Surprise makes more sense when the narration is completely limited to the narrator/character's point of view.

3. Whatever you do, be consistent. Don't switch points of view, and if you choose first person POV be scrupulous about limiting the narration to what the character/narrator would see, experience, and think.


I recommend experimenting with both POVs in different stories so you get a feel for both and their strengths and weaknesses.

Sometimes limiting what you know (in the first person context) is good. You can have another character tell you something to fill in a deficit. You have to be careful to not know too much. You are expressing your own observations/ feelings after all.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sometimes limiting what you know (in the first person context) is good. You can have another character tell you something to fill in a deficit. You have to be careful to not know too much. You are expressing your own observations/ feelings after all.

Absolutely. It all depends on the story. The key, I think, is for the author to figure out what the essentials of the story are, and then to choose the best POV to tell that story.

 

[yukonnights]

How do you know the motivations of others in real life? You don't always know, and you don't always need to know. If you do know and it isn't obvious, then they tell you, or they tell someone, and someone tells you.

Sometimes understanding a character's motivation can be an epiphany at or near the climax of a story. In other cases, I usually don't have trouble constructing dialog that lays out their motivations. Sometimes you might need to introduce a character for that dialog and little else.

Dialog is a major tool, especially in first person.

I would add to that with; "Dialog is a major tool, especially in first person", especially when the dialogue is joined by unspoken thoughts.

example; "I don't know if I'm ready to go all the way Billy." His gentle touch on my cheek makes my words ring false. Oh, I never knew it would be like this....

I know she's unsure … I know we need this to happen so her past trauma can be healed. "Kendra, trust me. We can go slow — I'll never hurt you, never in a million years."

To me, those simple two sentences tell a story on their own. It's so often that it's these intimate thoughts that go missing in 1st person stories. Depending on the story, these emotions can be shared. The most limiting issue I've run into is; too many characters can be more difficult to manage. But since a lot of erotica is primarily two characters, it's ideal for that.

Some call this head-hopping — I say 'B-S' to that. It's clear who's saying and thinking what.

 

[NotWise]

I've started several stories in one POV and rewritten them in a different POV, usually before I get very far into the story. In once case I switched the POV then switched it back again.

I can only speculate about why one works better than another. For me, different stories work better when told from different points of view.