Data for new category discussion

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

I’m aware of the site’s limited human resources, so I accept that the status quo will probably persist. I merely offer data for the ongoing discussion of whether there should be new categories.

Yesterday the first chunk of my series, “Two Bi Two,” was published. The title pretty clearly points in the direction of bisexuality, as well as group sex. On the story page, the disclaimer makes it clear that there is and will be bisexual content.

My stories seldom draw much attention, so the actual numbers on this one may not impress you. For now I’ll state them as relative to those on my other stories. In a day and a half, the debut of “Two Bi Two” set my all-time records for views, votes, favorites, and new followers, for a new story in that amount of time--by a large margin.

I interpret this as suggesting the presence of a large, perhaps eager, audience for stories about bisexuality and bicuriosity. In the past I’ve expressed support for the creation of some kind of Bi category, but now I’m just providing data for discussion. If you really want hard numbers, send me a PM.

This post, undeniably, serves as a plug, but my main clamor for attention is over in Story Feedback.

 

[rescatooor]

Whoops. Wrong thread.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I’m aware of the site’s limited human resources, so I accept that the status quo will probably persist. I merely offer data for the ongoing discussion of whether there should be new categories.

Yesterday the first chunk of my series, “Two Bi Two,” was published. The title pretty clearly points in the direction of bisexuality, as well as group sex. On the story page, the disclaimer makes it clear that there is and will be bisexual content.

My stories seldom draw much attention, so the actual numbers on this one may not impress you. For now I’ll state them as relative to those on my other stories. In a day and a half, the debut of “Two Bi Two” set my all-time records for views, votes, favorites, and new followers, for a new story in that amount of time--by a large margin.

I interpret this as suggesting the presence of a large, perhaps eager, audience for stories about bisexuality and bicuriosity. In the past I’ve expressed support for the creation of some kind of Bi category, but now I’m just providing data for discussion. If you really want hard numbers, send me a PM.

This post, undeniably, serves as a plug, but my main clamor for attention is over in Story Feedback.

If one of your goals is to plug the story, you need to provide us a link to read the story.

 

[rescatooor]

I mean... Even if we have, for instance, transsexual/crossdressing category on this site, the stories are less targeted towards that demographic, but rather it fetishizes it.

I agree the site might benefit from categories that are clearly aimed towards members of alphabet mafia, as in it caters to them, features characters like them as POVs, etc. There is clearly a market for it since sites that specialize on similar content already exist.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The alphabet mafia is certainly growing (at least in letters) LG became LGBT, morphed into LGBTQ, then LGBTQIA, LGBTQIA + people, and even LGBTTQQIAAP. HUM, where shall it all end?

 

[SimonDoom]

I’m aware of the site’s limited human resources, so I accept that the status quo will probably persist. I merely offer data for the ongoing discussion of whether there should be new categories.

Yesterday the first chunk of my series, “Two Bi Two,” was published. The title pretty clearly points in the direction of bisexuality, as well as group sex. On the story page, the disclaimer makes it clear that there is and will be bisexual content.

My stories seldom draw much attention, so the actual numbers on this one may not impress you. For now I’ll state them as relative to those on my other stories. In a day and a half, the debut of “Two Bi Two” set my all-time records for views, votes, favorites, and new followers, for a new story in that amount of time--by a large margin.

I interpret this as suggesting the presence of a large, perhaps eager, audience for stories about bisexuality and bicuriosity. In the past I’ve expressed support for the creation of some kind of Bi category, but now I’m just providing data for discussion. If you really want hard numbers, send me a PM.

This post, undeniably, serves as a plug, but my main clamor for attention is over in Story Feedback.

You're not the only one to suggest this. It might make sense. The key is to make the case based on data that the Literotica readership would respond to the creation of the new category in a way that would benefit readers and benefit Literotica.

I second what MD wrote: include a link to your submissions page in your signature line, and any time you refer to a specific story link to it as well.

 

[KeithD]

Over a decade ago, in the only PM to me initiated by Laurel, she asked if the site should add a bi category (more than a decade ago). I expressed an enthusiastic "yes." I do write bisexual and I have a hell of a time finding a submission category for it here.

Nothing came of that exchange.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think there should be a lot of other categories. Why not? Thee author's are selecting the appropriate place for their stories. I suspect that the problem of stories being submitted in the wrong category would be less, nor more, if authors had more choices. The only downside I can see to adding categories is in regard to awards, and I really don't think that should be a serious deterrent. If a site with more than two millions members can't come up with a couple hundred more bucks a month for prizes, it's got bigger problems than how many categories it divides the stories into.

I once suggested Memoir as a category, which, I now understand, is not a good idea because it runs into the problem of people telling true stories about real people.

I think their should definitely be a Bisexual category, I think Science Fiction and Fantasy should each be their own categories. I think there should be Sex Work and Historical Fiction categories.

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

To MD & Simon: As I wrote, the pathetic cry for attention is in Story Feedback, and that's where the link is. In this thread I wanted to appear Above It All.

 

[SamScribble]

The alphabet mafia is certainly growing (at least in letters) LG became LGBT, morphed into LGBTQ, then LGBTQIA, LGBTQIA + people, and even LGBTTQQIAAP. HUM, where shall it all end?

I guess people who are into these subtle variations know what is what but, personally, I'm stuck back at LGBT. I have had many gay and lesbian friends over the years. And I suspect that at least 50 percent of my friends are to some extent bi. But, after that, I find it's a bit like remembering the value of pi to 20 decimal places. I think I may have had too many birthdays.

 

[KeithD]

I'm stuck back at LGBT.)

Me too.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think there should be a lot of other categories. Why not? Thee author's are selecting the appropriate place for their stories. I suspect that the problem of stories being submitted in the wrong category would be less, nor more, if authors had more choices. The only downside I can see to adding categories is in regard to awards, and I really don't think that should be a serious deterrent. If a site with more than two millions members can't come up with a couple hundred more bucks a month for prizes, it's got bigger problems than how many categories it divides the stories into.

I once suggested Memoir as a category, which, I now understand, is not a good idea because it runs into the problem of people telling true stories about real people.

I think their should definitely be a Bisexual category, I think Science Fiction and Fantasy should each be their own categories. I think there should be Sex Work and Historical Fiction categories.

The downside of creating more categories is it may -- may, not necessarily will -- make it more difficult for readers to find the stories they want. Not all readers, but some, probably. To find the stories they want, they may have to scan through more categories, taking more time and effort. Consolidation helps some readers.

It would also be more work for the Site, and I think they're short-staffed and over-worked already.

 

[KeithD]

The downside of creating more categories is it may -- may, not necessarily will -- make it more difficult for readers to find the stories they want.

If a reader is only interested in bisexual, how do they now find stories to read here? Where do they look for their category? How, unless the author used "bi" or "bisexual" as a keyword, do they find stories? Certainly don't have trouble finding hetero categories, do they?

Of course there is a further issue of bisexual female or bisexual male--but, again, there's no such problem here in subcategorizing hetero stories.

 

[MillieDynamite]

LGBT is good enough for me.

 

[SimonDoom]

If a reader is only interested in bisexual, how do they now find stories to read here? Where do they look for their category? How, unless the author used "bi" or "bisexual" as a keyword, do they find stories? Certainly don't have trouble finding hetero categories, do they?

Of course there is a further issue of bisexual female or bisexual male--but, again, there's no such problem here in subcategorizing hetero stories.

My objection wouldn't apply to a reader like that. It would apply to a reader who is interested in exhibitionist/bi stories who looks for them in the exhibitionist category but not the bi category. There is a lot of overlap among categories of kinks, and readers looking for different combinations of things. The more split up the categories get, the more difficult it might be for such readers to find stories.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The downside of creating more categories is it may -- may, not necessarily will -- make it more difficult for readers to find the stories they want. Not all readers, but some, probably. To find the stories they want, they may have to scan through more categories, taking more time and effort. Consolidation helps some readers.

It would also be more work for the Site, and I think they're short-staffed and over-worked already.

I get the concern about readers finding stories to fit their interests, although I think people are pretty diligent when it comes to that sort of thing. Nonetheless, point taken.

It's unclear to me why you think it would entail much more work for the staff. I would assume that the vast majority of stories are already pre-sorted by the authors.

 

[yukonnights]

I'll add my vote for a Bisexual category. Case in point; My very first story posted here in 2007 has a mfm bi theme. Since it's not really a gay-male story, I didn't put it there but thought Loving Wives would be the closest fit. Obviously, that wasn't correct. (As Simon Doom often points out; LW does get the most readership … but I've had to remove more hateful comments on How I Got Here than any other story I've written. I still think it would be a very loving wife to bring another man into the relationship though

The second part of that story I put in Group Sex thinking maybe that's where such stories go. Now I know that wasn't the best choice either, but much more receptive than LW.

I'm currently planning to edit the first one with a new story title that will key it to the second part. Then write a new third part to wrap them up into a HEA. How Did I Get Here will become Surrender To Desire, Surrender To Love stays the same, the new part 3 will be Surrender To (something I haven't decided on yet - but it will be a good surrender with some word that starts past "L" so they list in order.)

My only real option, IMO, is to publish all three in the Gay category since general knowledge dictates that gay is a trump theme.

So yeah, bisexual can be a very different theme than gay or lesbian due to the heterosexual dynamic that is implied.

 

[rescatooor]

Has anyone tried posting bisexual stories in erotic couplings? I know not everyone agrees but I consider it a fairly omnivore category. It's the one I usually scroll through since I do not feel strongly about any of the other categories, to be honest. Or I just scroll down new stories.

I have one story in the works with a character that can morph into other sex. Even if it's not technically right, I'm probably putting it under Transsexuals and Crossdressing. You work with what you got.

 

[KeithD]

Has anyone tried posting bisexual stories in erotic couplings?

not more than once.

 

[NotWise]

Has anyone tried posting bisexual stories in erotic couplings? I know not everyone agrees but I consider it a fairly omnivore category. It's the one I usually scroll through since I do not feel strongly about any of the other categories, to be honest. Or I just scroll down new stories.

I have one story in the works with a character that can morph into other sex. Even if it's not technically right, I'm probably putting it under Transsexuals and Crossdressing. You work with what you got.

"Bisexual" is in the tag cloud for EC, but it's in the smallest font. It looks like it isn't much of a thing for the EC authors.

It seems like a character shape-shifting between genders might fit in SciFi.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's unclear to me why you think it would entail much more work for the staff. I would assume that the vast majority of stories are already pre-sorted by the authors.

Laurel frequently exercises her right to veto the authors' selections for their stories' categories. So she would have to make finer judgments with more categories.

More categories means more story awards. More toplists.

It means the initial effort to set the categories and corresponding lists up.

It might mean fewer views and votes, if it means that category readerships are smaller.

All this is largely speculative, of course. But I suspect Laurel has reasons why she hasn't done this, other than just "We'll get there someday."

 

[yowser]

Has anyone tried posting bisexual stories in erotic couplings?

Of the eleven or so stories of mine with significant bisexual themes, most have gone into GM. A few in Group, one each in Non-con and Celebrities, (the latter two my worst received tales: one is the least viewed, the other the worst ‘score’.) One in IT didn't do very well either. Never tried EC.

Reader dislikes are often hard to predict, but a significant percentage of readers clearly have strong aversions to even the hint of male-on-male contact, so category placement is important.

 

[lovecraft68]

Few years back the site lied and said if sufficient interest was shown for a Bi category, they would do it. The person that was told that started a thread, it received a lot of support, and then the site said "we never said that" proof was provided they did and...no, we never said that.

I don't write that type of material, but I could see where a BI category could be a good thing for both the writers and readers, and don't see a reason why it can't happen

meanwhile somehow Mind control-which belongs in Non Con/reluctance for reasons obvious to anyone with common sense or an understanding of what defines consent V non consent understands.

We have an anal sex category...why? Is it that big of a deal that act needs its own category? Why doesn't oral have one by that thought process.

So if the site feels they don't want to have more than a certain number of categories I just provided two that could easily be absorbed into existing categories to make way for something else.

But why make the authors, happy? They're only the source of income around here.

 

[SimonDoom]

meanwhile somehow Mind control-which belongs in Non Con/reluctance for reasons obvious to anyone with common sense or an understanding of what defines consent V non consent understands.

We have an anal sex category...why? Is it that big of a deal that act needs its own category? Why doesn't oral have one by that thought process.

To paraphrase Oliver Wendall Holmes, the life of erotica is not logic, it's experience.

Whether it makes any logical sense to separate Mind Control and Non-Con, readers do in fact see them differently. They are very different kinds of erotica. Non-Con is often much darker than Mind Control. Mind Contol often borders on sci fi or fantasy. It's often more whimsical. There's no reason to believe they have the same readership, and that's by far the most important thing for purposes of categorization. Our theories about "what's consensual" are completely irrelevant to the categorization issue. What matters is reader expectation.

Same thing with Anal. Categorizing it works. Other Sites do the same thing. Logic has nothing to do with it. It's about assisting readers in getting the stories they want, and many readers really want to read Anal stories. You would piss off a ton of readers if you got rid of the category.

 

[stickygirl]

Has anyone tried posting bisexual stories in erotic couplings? I know not everyone agrees but I consider it a fairly omnivore category. It's the one I usually scroll through since I do not feel strongly about any of the other categories, to be honest. Or I just scroll down new stories.

I have one story in the works with a character that can morph into other sex. Even if it's not technically right, I'm probably putting it under Transsexuals and Crossdressing. You work with what you got.

I've never been too chuffed that Trans and CDs are thrown into the same category, but I guess they make searches easier to manage so I'll live with it. If we have too many categories then I could see SciFi-Bi-S&M being a legitimate heading.

I agree with your earlier comment that most Trans stuff is fetishised and readers get squicked by the mention of a vagina.