Female-Led Relationships

[gregy70]

I’m just glad I can just read words of amazing females right here.
That gives me something I need in life . Thankyou

 

[Justplatonic]

I’m just glad I can just read words of amazing females right here.
That gives me something I need in life . Thankyou

Agreed gregy70... It doesn't get much better than this...

 

[Justplatonic]

I've noticed a few times here and online, older and wiser Female Leaders who become 'available' again, often have difficulties finding someone new for a long term commitment... I don't think it's simply they've become too picky... They're just looking for companionship with substance...

I wish I had solutions, but I don't feel I have particularly... However, if I could somehow, by accident or deliberation, help in some shape way of form, it would be my hope you'd be successful...

Quite often when presented with a challenge, having a deeper understanding of the challenge itself can sometimes shine a light...

I once said on another thread, I believe, that "obsession displaces love"... Certainly in my opinion when the dynamic between Female Leader and sub is 'strong'... A sub is not only in tune with their Female Leader, they're obedient, and committed... Quite often the term 'Bliss' (an elated 'happy' state of mind or an innate state of inner joy) or some other term is coined, and it's my belief it represents a large part of the obsession I mentioned earlier...

It's also my belief the vast majority of available subs are probably very subject to obsession... It's not a criticism per se, just not the right mindset for a stable long term commitment IMHO... I do realise there are exceptions with all due respect, but this smaller group of subs are very difficult to find, right? Otherwise you still wouldn't be looking...

Why not adjust parameters? Look for someone a touch more vanilla? Someone who can actually be loving and supportive, someone who can engage you in intellectual conversation, or have a laugh, without the overhead of BDSM? And is open minded enough to accept and support you seeing other lovers, who do satiate your needs for BDSM or other aspects outside of your long term commitment?

I don't know if that was either boring, or patronizing... If it was I apologize in advance... However I sincerely hope it helps you... Good luck...

 

[policywank]

It can be a challenge to find a 'good' sub (whatever that means).

It is probably fair to say that many are obsessed with the BDSM end of things. But in that context I am not sure if the obsession crowds out everything else or if they don't really understand what it is to be submissive in the first place.

A lot of guys seem to confuse being submissive with being a bottom. So they come into it wanting to be treated in a certain way. Because the things that they want - to be spanked or leashed or be ordered to strip naked or whatever - have the appearance of being subservient they associate that with being submissive. But in reality if they insist on being led in that way or any other specific way, then they aren't really following at all. Being submissive doesn't just mean performing certain acts. It means deferring to and ceding authority to a master and doing whatever your master desires. In that case, by definition it is not incumbent upon her (or him) to order you to do that which you wanted to do anyway.

In that sense I think it can be beneficial to start out 'vanilla' so that a Sub really comes to understand what it is to cede control. If I want my Sub to clean the tub and mow the lawn with no sexual overtones that is what I expect him to do. The things that I know he enjoys - spanking, leashes, cfnm, etc - are then rewards for his obedience. The fact that I introduce them in the form of a command adds to his reward and heightens his exhilaration. But he is expected to understand that difference and focus himself on obedience at all times, not open his energies importuning for the 'bottom' treatment that he craves.

In playing the Dom or master role I think it is very important to establish this distinction. Perhaps by starting out 'vanilla' one keeps the obsession from crowding out everything else or perhaps it is just a matter of setting expectations properly.

It can be difficult to find the right person for a long-term commitment of any kind and arguably more so for such a unique dynamic as Dom/Sub. I think that a big part of it comes down to looking in the right places and applying the right filters.

When I was younger I recall a friend who loved to go to dance clubs. She would hook-up with guys that made big promises to get her into bed, take everything they said at face value then lament the lack of good men when the relationships didn't work out. She was looking in the wrong places and not applying any useful filters. In the process she made an effort (finding a good man) which is a challenge at the best of times into a near impossibility.

 

[Justplatonic]

It can be a challenge to find a 'good' sub (whatever that means).

It is probably fair to say that many are obsessed with the BDSM end of things. But in that context I am not sure if the obsession crowds out everything else or if they don't really understand what it is to be submissive in the first place.

A lot of guys seem to confuse being submissive with being a bottom. So they come into it wanting to be treated in a certain way. Because the things that they want - to be spanked or leashed or be ordered to strip naked or whatever - have the appearance of being subservient they associate that with being submissive. But in reality if they insist on being led in that way or any other specific way, then they aren't really following at all. Being submissive doesn't just mean performing certain acts. It means deferring to and ceding authority to a master and doing whatever your master desires. In that case, by definition it is not incumbent upon her (or him) to order you to do that which you wanted to do anyway.

In that sense I think it can be beneficial to start out 'vanilla' so that a Sub really comes to understand what it is to cede control. If I want my Sub to clean the tub and mow the lawn with no sexual overtones that is what I expect him to do. The things that I know he enjoys - spanking, leashes, cfnm, etc - are then rewards for his obedience. The fact that I introduce them in the form of a command adds to his reward and heightens his exhilaration. But he is expected to understand that difference and focus himself on obedience at all times, not open his energies importuning for the 'bottom' treatment that he craves.

In playing the Dom or master role I think it is very important to establish this distinction. Perhaps by starting out 'vanilla' one keeps the obsession from crowding out everything else or perhaps it is just a matter of setting expectations properly.

It can be difficult to find the right person for a long-term commitment of any kind and arguably more so for such a unique dynamic as Dom/Sub. I think that a big part of it comes down to looking in the right places and applying the right filters.

When I was younger I recall a friend who loved to go to dance clubs. She would hook-up with guys that made big promises to get her into bed, take everything they said at face value then lament the lack of good men when the relationships didn't work out. She was looking in the wrong places and not applying any useful filters. In the process she made an effort (finding a good man) which is a challenge at the best of times into a near impossibility.

Thank you policywank... I was hoping at best, some one such as yourself would weigh in, and expand with far more gravitas than my post... And you did...

 

[gregy70]

Thankyou Policywank.
I always enjoy reflecting over your words.

 

[Goldenfinger]

It can be a challenge to find a 'good' sub (whatever that means).

It is probably fair to say that many are obsessed with the BDSM end of things. But in that context I am not sure if the obsession crowds out everything else or if they don't really understand what it is to be submissive in the first place.

A lot of guys seem to confuse being submissive with being a bottom. So they come into it wanting to be treated in a certain way. Because the things that they want - to be spanked or leashed or be ordered to strip naked or whatever - have the appearance of being subservient they associate that with being submissive. But in reality if they insist on being led in that way or any other specific way, then they aren't really following at all. Being submissive doesn't just mean performing certain acts. It means deferring to and ceding authority to a master and doing whatever your master desires. In that case, by definition it is not incumbent upon her (or him) to order you to do that which you wanted to do anyway.

In that sense I think it can be beneficial to start out 'vanilla' so that a Sub really comes to understand what it is to cede control. If I want my Sub to clean the tub and mow the lawn with no sexual overtones that is what I expect him to do. The things that I know he enjoys - spanking, leashes, cfnm, etc - are then rewards for his obedience. The fact that I introduce them in the form of a command adds to his reward and heightens his exhilaration. But he is expected to understand that difference and focus himself on obedience at all times, not open his energies importuning for the 'bottom' treatment that he craves.

In playing the Dom or master role I think it is very important to establish this distinction. Perhaps by starting out 'vanilla' one keeps the obsession from crowding out everything else or perhaps it is just a matter of setting expectations properly.

It can be difficult to find the right person for a long-term commitment of any kind and arguably more so for such a unique dynamic as Dom/Sub. I think that a big part of it comes down to looking in the right places and applying the right filters.

When I was younger I recall a friend who loved to go to dance clubs. She would hook-up with guys that made big promises to get her into bed, take everything they said at face value then lament the lack of good men when the relationships didn't work out. She was looking in the wrong places and not applying any useful filters. In the process she made an effort (finding a good man) which is a challenge at the best of times into a near impossibility.

I think they get confused on what they see in porn. They have a idea of what they want then try to lead from the bottom to get what they want. Most are interested in the scenes and video clips but not the lifestyle.

They can take their wife or girlfriend to the adult store buy a outfit and a toy or two. Write a script for their partner and play their games, happy with The illusion they’ve created.

Everyone’s different, play how you want.

 

[gregy70]

While we’re been in lockdown I’ve been at home while the wife works.
Just like the last lockdown I’ve really taken to keeping the house in order.
The wife comes home after work and relaxes and I’ll fetch anything for her no problem.
It’s nice and not sexual but it affects me just as nice.
The wife must appreciate and notice my behaviour and rewards me.
She had me cage the other day. First time in a long time too.
She’ll also call me over to kneel by her for a cuddle and at times asks me to stand and drop my pants as she’s been inspecting my bits too.
All unexpected

 

[policywank]

I think they get confused on what they see in porn. They have a idea of what they want then try to lead from the bottom to get what they want. Most are interested in the scenes and video clips but not the lifestyle.

They can take their wife or girlfriend to the adult store buy a outfit and a toy or two. Write a script for their partner and play their games, happy with The illusion they’ve created.

Everyone’s different, play how you want.

I think that is correct. That is how a lot of guys come at it and if that works for them then that is great. Sort of like my analogy about my friend focussing on guys she meets in dance clubs - if she knows what to expect and that is what she wants great.

And hey maybe she will actually find the man of her dreams at the dance club and maybe the guy who is focussed on leading from the bottom will actually end up being a good and obedient Sub.

But the chances of finding what we want is enhanced if we look at what we are doing, how we are approaching the matter, where we are looking and what filters we are applying. Personally I have never really gone looking for a Sub. But the ones I have found amongst my lovers I have found by focussing on their understanding of the role and testing the limits of their willing to be obedient. In some cases it is the recognition of their desire to play the bottom role that opened up the possibility, but I typically test their obedience aptitude before extensively indulging the bottom role so that I can get a clearer gauge of what it is they really want.

Some of my lovers are what I would call bottoms, but not really Sub. It is a role or a scene for play. That is ok too. Just a different thing.

 

[Justplatonic]

While we’re been in lockdown I’ve been at home while the wife works.
Just like the last lockdown I’ve really taken to keeping the house in order.
The wife comes home after work and relaxes and I’ll fetch anything for her no problem.
It’s nice and not sexual but it affects me just as nice.
The wife must appreciate and notice my behaviour and rewards me.
She had me cage the other day. First time in a long time too.
She’ll also call me over to kneel by her for a cuddle and at times asks me to stand and drop my pants as she’s been inspecting my bits too.
All unexpected

Hey gregy70... Sounds like my ideal evening...

 

[gregy70]

Hey gregy70... Sounds like my ideal evening...

Thanks Justplatonic.
I’ve been a very lucky boy of late.
It’s got me eager to do more yard work now lol as I know she’ll love that.

 

[SlutAddicted]

Certainly what we see online and in porn is distorted but I wouldn't go so far as to say these things are so close to nil IRL.

Most of the portrayals we see on the internet are unrealistic, but that doesn't mean that the situation they portray doesn't occur. Just because group sex or office sex or cheating doesn't transpire the way it does online doesn't mean these things don't occur. They aren't all happening every minute of every day with a bunch of cheesy pick-up lines and ridiculous characters, but these things do occur IRL with a frequency that is far greater than rare.

Likewise, the portrayal of FLR we see online is very male centric. It is all about what men want it to be about. The premise that those specific scenarios are rare IRL doesn't mean that an FLR is equally rare. It means that a real FLR is more nuanced and more suited to the way women lead.

I think that we tend to have this male centric perception around a lot of things. Much of society implicitly associates leadership or "Alpha" status with aggression. But when you look closer most people who act this way are not leaders at all and the people who actually demonstrate good leadership over time are much more subtle and diplomatic. So what we observe IRL is not that women don't lead or want to lead, it is that we don't lead in the manner that your average male has come to associate with leadership or in accordance with male Sub fantasies.

There is a saying that a lion doesn't need to tell you he is a lion. Whether man or woman the strongest leaders are frequently discrete. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

I think that this is very insightful. As men we tend to see things from our perspective then misinterpret women's disinterest in the male view of any given subject with a lack of interest in that subject.

As an example my wife is very emphatic that no being a hot wife does not make her my personal pornstar. Once it was explained to me I see how silly that notion is. Her sexual experiences are first and foremost about her sexual fulfillment, not my entertainment. She indulges me now, but first I had to learn to understand that it wasn't all about what I wanted.

Likewise I think she would say that she isn't interested in leading in the way men imagine a woman should lead, but she is the leader in our marriage - in the way she wants to lead, which I have learned is the way I want to be led.

 

[policywank]

I think that this is very insightful. As men we tend to see things from our perspective then misinterpret women's disinterest in the male view of any given subject with a lack of interest in that subject.

As an example my wife is very emphatic that no being a hot wife does not make her my personal pornstar. Once it was explained to me I see how silly that notion is. Her sexual experiences are first and foremost about her sexual fulfillment, not my entertainment. She indulges me now, but first I had to learn to understand that it wasn't all about what I wanted.

Likewise I think she would say that she isn't interested in leading in the way men imagine a woman should lead, but she is the leader in our marriage - in the way she wants to lead, which I have learned is the way I want to be led.

Thank you sweetie. To clarify I think that the best place for a Sub husband to start is not really on his wife's sex life at all. He should focus on being obedient and following her lead. In due course she will address the manner in which to optimize her sexual fulfillment at the time and in the manner she sees fit. The most rewarding aspects of exploring the full potential of this arrangement come after a pattern of complete obedience is established.

 

[eroticspank]

Thank you sweetie. To clarify I think that the best place for a Sub husband to start is not really on his wife's sex life at all. He should focus on being obedient and following her lead. In due course she will address the manner in which to optimize her sexual fulfillment at the time and in the manner she sees fit. The most rewarding aspects of exploring the full potential of this arrangement come after a pattern of complete obedience is established.

Well said. We tend to think about the bedroom before anything else.

ES

 

[pplwatching]

We had a little misfire yesterday ...

We've been remodeling the kitchen and she wants a farmhouse kitchen look. I like more contemporary designs, but am happy if she's happy, and have a very fond memory of a farmhouse that I stayed in on a business trip before we met that had an enormous rough-hewn beam across the ceiling above an island with hooks for pots/pans.

Thanks to the previous homeowner, our house has an island that sits below an ugly (but structurally sound) 2x12 beam sandwich where a wall used to be. I found a place that sells reclaimed lumber from old barns and have been planning on using a large 100+ year old reclaimed rough-hewn beam to carry the load over the island (replacing sandwiched 2x12s). I've had a structural engineer out and gotten approval, done most of the demolition, etc proudly laboring under the assumption that she'd love the result.

Yesterday, we met the cabinet contractor to finalize the order. When he asked what we were planning to do for the structural beam, I proudly went over the plan and described this awesome beam that would be a prominent feature above the island.

To my complete and utter surprise and embarrassment, my wife immediately shot it down. Unfortunately, rather strongly. I'm happy to do whatever she wants, and she knows it. To have my labor of love dismissed and shut down out of hand, without any real chance to paint my vision to her, and in front of a total stranger was ... Let's just say it stung.

As is typical of her leadership style, after the contractor left she did a 180 and was genuinely interested in what I had been planning, how I thought it would look, what color stain, etc. Unfortunately, I had to get back to work so we agreed to talk about it later and come to a decision once she's seen the beam in question and possibly some Internet examples of kitchens with a similar rough-hewn beam.

In hindsight, I'm not sure that she's ever been in a real farmhouse kitchen, so we have different visions of what that means. Her leadership style is often to give me general parameters of what she wants, and let me worry about the deets. I'm used to having a certain degree of latitude and autonomy. At the end of the day, I'll follow her lead and the beam will be something she wants but a part of my ego is tied up in that one beam, wanting to impress her and have her be proud of the result. I'm doing it for her.

The take-away with respect to this thread is that, in my marriage at least, leadership comes with the perils and pitfalls of being human for both of us. Seeing that I am personally invested in making her thrilled with the result and showing a genuine interest in my ideas is part of what allows her to lead effectively in our marriage.

 

[Justplatonic]

We had a little misfire yesterday ...

We've been remodeling the kitchen and she wants a farmhouse kitchen look. I like more contemporary designs, but am happy if she's happy, and have a very fond memory of a farmhouse that I stayed in on a business trip before we met that had an enormous rough-hewn beam across the ceiling above an island with hooks for pots/pans.

Thanks to the previous homeowner, our house has an island that sits below an ugly (but structurally sound) 2x12 beam sandwich where a wall used to be. I found a place that sells reclaimed lumber from old barns and have been planning on using a large 100+ year old reclaimed rough-hewn beam to carry the load over the island (replacing sandwiched 2x12s). I've had a structural engineer out and gotten approval, done most of the demolition, etc proudly laboring under the assumption that she'd love the result.

Yesterday, we met the cabinet contractor to finalize the order. When he asked what we were planning to do for the structural beam, I proudly went over the plan and described this awesome beam that would be a prominent feature above the island.

To my complete and utter surprise and embarrassment, my wife immediately shot it down. Unfortunately, rather strongly. I'm happy to do whatever she wants, and she knows it. To have my labor of love dismissed and shut down out of hand, without any real chance to paint my vision to her, and in front of a total stranger was ... Let's just say it stung.

As is typical of her leadership style, after the contractor left she did a 180 and was genuinely interested in what I had been planning, how I thought it would look, what color stain, etc. Unfortunately, I had to get back to work so we agreed to talk about it later and come to a decision once she's seen the beam in question and possibly some Internet examples of kitchens with a similar rough-hewn beam.

In hindsight, I'm not sure that she's ever been in a real farmhouse kitchen, so we have different visions of what that means. Her leadership style is often to give me general parameters of what she wants, and let me worry about the deets. I'm used to having a certain degree of latitude and autonomy. At the end of the day, I'll follow her lead and the beam will be something she wants but a part of my ego is tied up in that one beam, wanting to impress her and have her be proud of the result. I'm doing it for her.

The take-away with respect to this thread is that, in my marriage at least, leadership comes with the perils and pitfalls of being human for both of us. Seeing that I am personally invested in making her thrilled with the result and showing a genuine interest in my ideas is part of what allows her to lead effectively in our marriage.

I read your post with great interest pplwatching... Though I'm not in a relationship such as yours, I do appreciate where you're coming from... A deep rooted desire to be obedient for Her, to indulge Her, to respect Her authority. Isn't that what it means to be a submissive follow of Her leadership?

Yes, Leading Women are extraordinary, leagues beyond vanilla Women, and 99% of the time that's true... So I think what you've highlighted is simply this... To err is to be human... She may not apologize for Her misjudgment, but then you're cognitively aware of why it's happened, and the reason for it. The fact She turned it around afterwards, is effectively Her apology, as She knows She doesn't need to explain that to you. I guess that's the great thing about your relationship...

I'd obediently kneel in the presence of a Leading Woman if allowed... Although they are not deity... But by heck, they are stunning human beings...

 

[policywank]

I read your post with great interest pplwatching... Though I'm not in a relationship such as yours, I do appreciate where you're coming from... A deep rooted desire to be obedient for Her, to indulge Her, to respect Her authority. Isn't that what it means to be a submissive follow of Her leadership?

Yes, Leading Women are extraordinary, leagues beyond vanilla Women, and 99% of the time that's true... So I think what you've highlighted is simply this... To err is to be human... She may not apologize for Her misjudgment, but then you're cognitively aware of why it's happened, and the reason for it. The fact She turned it around afterwards, is effectively Her apology, as She knows She doesn't need to explain that to you. I guess that's the great thing about your relationship...

I'd obediently kneel in the presence of a Leading Woman if allowed... Although they are not deity... But by heck, they are stunning human beings...

I don't think she did anything wrong or made a misjudgment per se. Nor do I necessarily think an apology - literal or effectively - is due.

As I see it, if we unpack the post there are two things going on.

Firstly, Ppl applied himself to the kitchen design with sincerity and enthusiasm. And he craves his wife's approval and appreciation for his effort and ideas. But that in now way obliges her to agree or to approve of his suggestion. If a leader's decisions must be tempered or compromised to accommodate those they lead, their leadership is undermined. To be clear, I am not saying a leader shouldn't ever temper their decisions or compromise their position. I am saying that the decision whether to do so is solely the leader's prerogative and that must be unaffected by the intensity with which the follower wishes it to be otherwise.

Secondly, she shut down his idea rather unceremoniously and in a way that he interpreted as hurtful. At this distance we can't really know just how that all unfolded and whether the greater sting came from what she had to say or the way she said it. But even if her delivery was less than ideal, the manner in which a leader communicates must be seen in the context of her leadership style, the way she interacts with those she leads and the burden she carries. Personally I try to be gentle but firm and when I am a bit too rough I try to reset the dynamic much as it sounds like ppl's wife did. But I won't apologize for the fact that sometimes it will be rougher out of necessity or due to circumstances. I am not saying a leader shouldn't apologize. I am saying that the mere fact that someone felt a bit hurt doesn't automatically mean an apology is due.

Every leader has their own style. It is part of her role to make sure her style is as effective as and as supportive of her followers as possible. But part of the role of the person following and obeying her is to adapt to and accept that style. As the one carrying the mantle and burden of leadership she is due the benefit of the doubt and things have to go awfully far off track before her follower has any right to judge her.

 

[Justplatonic]

I don't think she did anything wrong or made a misjudgment per se. Nor do I necessarily think an apology - literal or effectively - is due.

As I see it, if we unpack the post there are two things going on.

Firstly, Ppl applied himself to the kitchen design with sincerity and enthusiasm. And he craves his wife's approval and appreciation for his effort and ideas. But that in now way obliges her to agree or to approve of his suggestion. If a leader's decisions must be tempered or compromised to accommodate those they lead, their leadership is undermined. To be clear, I am not saying a leader shouldn't ever temper their decisions or compromise their position. I am saying that the decision whether to do so is solely the leader's prerogative and that must be unaffected by the intensity with which the follower wishes it to be otherwise.

Secondly, she shut down his idea rather unceremoniously and in a way that he interpreted as hurtful. At this distance we can't really know just how that all unfolded and whether the greater sting came from what she had to say or the way she said it. But even if her delivery was less than ideal, the manner in which a leader communicates must be seen in the context of her leadership style, the way she interacts with those she leads and the burden she carries. Personally I try to be gentle but firm and when I am a bit too rough I try to reset the dynamic much as it sounds like ppl's wife did. But I won't apologize for the fact that sometimes it will be rougher out of necessity or due to circumstances. I am not saying a leader shouldn't apologize. I am saying that the mere fact that someone felt a bit hurt doesn't automatically mean an apology is due.

Every leader has their own style. It is part of her role to make sure her style is as effective as and as supportive of her followers as possible. But part of the role of the person following and obeying her is to adapt to and accept that style. As the one carrying the mantle and burden of leadership she is due the benefit of the doubt and things have to go awfully far off track before her follower has any right to judge her.

I don't think I'll ever truly know what Women think, let alone Female Leaders. I really do appreciate/value what you stated policywank, and always... It is down to leadership style... I'm used to my Wife's style, but She only approximates Female Leadership at times, and that's what I'm accustomed to.

I'm trying to understand FLR... Thanks to this thread, and the people with whom I engage with via PM, I'm slowly finding my way albeit flawed at times... Hardly surprising, right?...

 

[Thom_the_gleeman]

I think I am in a rather female lead relationship, even though this is never something my wife and I have voiced to eachother. It has just devloped in this way, it does not affect my "feeling a man" nor does it deminish my role in the houshold. It is a nice and safe pattern for us. My only wish is that this would extend to the bedroom but alas, one can not have everything in life.

Love you all, Thom

 

[waratah]

We had a little misfire yesterday ...

We've been remodeling the kitchen and she wants a farmhouse kitchen look. I like more contemporary designs, but am happy if she's happy, and have a very fond memory of a farmhouse that I stayed in on a business trip before we met that had an enormous rough-hewn beam across the ceiling above an island with hooks for pots/pans.

Thanks to the previous homeowner, our house has an island that sits below an ugly (but structurally sound) 2x12 beam sandwich where a wall used to be. I found a place that sells reclaimed lumber from old barns and have been planning on using a large 100+ year old reclaimed rough-hewn beam to carry the load over the island (replacing sandwiched 2x12s). I've had a structural engineer out and gotten approval, done most of the demolition, etc proudly laboring under the assumption that she'd love the result.

Yesterday, we met the cabinet contractor to finalize the order. When he asked what we were planning to do for the structural beam, I proudly went over the plan and described this awesome beam that would be a prominent feature above the island.

To my complete and utter surprise and embarrassment, my wife immediately shot it down. Unfortunately, rather strongly. I'm happy to do whatever she wants, and she knows it. To have my labor of love dismissed and shut down out of hand, without any real chance to paint my vision to her, and in front of a total stranger was ... Let's just say it stung.

As is typical of her leadership style, after the contractor left she did a 180 and was genuinely interested in what I had been planning, how I thought it would look, what color stain, etc. Unfortunately, I had to get back to work so we agreed to talk about it later and come to a decision once she's seen the beam in question and possibly some Internet examples of kitchens with a similar rough-hewn beam.

In hindsight, I'm not sure that she's ever been in a real farmhouse kitchen, so we have different visions of what that means. Her leadership style is often to give me general parameters of what she wants, and let me worry about the deets. I'm used to having a certain degree of latitude and autonomy. At the end of the day, I'll follow her lead and the beam will be something she wants but a part of my ego is tied up in that one beam, wanting to impress her and have her be proud of the result. I'm doing it for her.

The take-away with respect to this thread is that, in my marriage at least, leadership comes with the perils and pitfalls of being human for both of us. Seeing that I am personally invested in making her thrilled with the result and showing a genuine interest in my ideas is part of what allows her to lead effectively in our marriage.

I'd be telling her to pound sand or build her own fuck'n kitchen.

Absolutely no time for that behaviour, man or women, leader or follower.

 

[Justplatonic]

I'd be telling her to pound sand or build her own fuck'n kitchen.

Absolutely no time for that behaviour, man or women, leader or follower.

Hey waratah... You're entitled to your opinion... Although this is probably not your type of thread and or belief system, with all due respect. If it is, read policywank's comments about pplwatching's account... I cannot make a better point...

 

[waratah]

Hey waratah... You're entitled to your opinion... Although this is probably not your type of thread and or belief system, with all due respect. If it is, read policywank's comments about pplwatching's account... I cannot make a better point...

The original poster asked for men's opinion on FLR.

They didn't say only respond if you were in favour of FLR.

 

[Justplatonic]

The original poster asked for men's opinion on FLR.

They didn't say only respond if you were in favour of FLR.

Fair comment waratah... But there is context to every situation, and certainly pplwatching is an advocate, and enthusiastically in an FLR. His account needed feedback, which he kindly received...

Guys like us want/desire to be lead by Women. Whatever Her Leadership style is, yes, it's ultimately for us to follow it. But therein lies the point. You have to want to follow Her Leadership unconditionally, or all is for nought. Although I respectfully know that's not every man's goal in life...

I'm sure pplwatching won't mind me saying this, but he knows his Wife better than you or I. And I gather for the most part, he's exceptionally happy indeed...

 

[Earthlyone]

The Prince Harry/Meghan Markle situation is an example of a female lead relationship, or at least that's how it appears. Harry is looking like a complete lame soyboy in virtually every photo and public appearance they do. There seems to be a media agenda to put Meghan at the forefront with Harry always seeming the sidekick, turning the traditional saying "behind-every-successful-man-is-a-woman" on it's head.

 

[policywank]

I'd be telling her to pound sand or build her own fuck'n kitchen.

Absolutely no time for that behaviour, man or women, leader or follower.

I am not really sure I understand the conviction that her behaviour was so bad. Let's set aside the whole FLR thing. The simple fact that he felt strongly about his idea doesn't mean she has to agree or pretend to agree.

The fact that she "shot him down rather strongly" raises some concerns. But we don't really have any context as to what that means. Like I said in my earlier post, was her approach really all that harsh or did he just not like what she had to say? If it was harsh, how so and isn't that in the eye of the beholder? I don't think I know any couple who don't occasionally snap at each other for a whole variety of reasons including those that aren't justified. Usually the best we can do in those circumstances is make amends and/or hit the reset button. If she has done that with sincerity I don't there is any reason to take a retaliatory approach.